You know what, let's put this to bed right now.
Viddasala explicitly calls out orders to members of the Antaam: You will not leave here alive, Inquisitor! Antaam, ebrashok adim!
I wish it were that easy...Facts don't mean anything unless they're 'facts'
Nah man. She lying obviously.
Duh.
...she deluded man.
They tal vashoth antaam.
Fakes.
There's a stronger argument that the Qunari high command had decided that she had gone off the reservation. That letter was not delivered to Josephine. Instead it was crumpled up into a ball on the desk of the subject. This is not consistent with the Qunari just going for the plausible deniability. If that was all they were doing, then there would be no reason for it to be redirected. Indeed that would defeat the purpose. The correspondence was redirected to the subject and the subject doesn't seem to be happy with what she read. Based on that, I'm confident that the Guy Fawkes scheme was in fact unauthorized just as the letter says. Doesn't mean anything else was, of course.
The letter was to Josephine. It did not get delivered to her because it was intercepted. That is more proof that Viddasala was acting outside the Qun. She deliberately intercepted a letter from Par Vollen to their ally and tried to destroy the letter. That's even with the stakes being all out war, which the Qunari did not want with the south.
Correct. If this were plausible deniability it would have been delivered to Josephine in order to deceive her into thinking there was no Qunari threat, and thus no reason for talk of war.
Unless he knew it was just plausible deniability. He, and the Qun are actively spying on you. We get this from Solas, who's own spies tripped over their spies. So you don't think it likely that IB knows full well what's going on, and that if the operation goes ****** up, which it did, that they were going to deny any knowledge? I find that to be the most likely explanation, if IB isn't Tal Vashoth.
And how would he know that? And what about it being intercepted by Viddasala? That indicates that it was not plausible deniability. The only way Hissrad could possible know that it was ruse was if he was in on it from the beginning. But if he had been in on it from the beginning then he would have thwarted the Inquisitor early on. He would not have waited until after the Inquisitor thwarted Dragon's Breath. Also, Hissrad would have disregarded Viddasala's order at that point since she already failed, and the Qunari would then rely on Hissrad being embedded in the Inquisition from that point on. He would not give up his well placed position just to jump on Viddasala's burning dreadnaught.
Yes. You're right. You are the only person who reads the codex entries and listens to the characters. My copies of WoT are just for show. In fact, I don't even play Dragon Age!
What does WoT have to do with this? You bought some products. That doesn't make you knowledgeable of the in-game codices.
Because, had her plan worked, it wouldn't have been necessary. She was planning to blow up the Exalted Council, the Inquisitor was there. Dangerous magical Anchor has now been taken care of.
If she'd activated Hissrad, it would have drawn unnecessary attention to the other Qunari agents in the Inquisition, possibly scuttling the Dragon's Breath plan completely.
As for why she thought the Inquisition was working with Solas: probably because they were working with him until recently. "No, we totally lost track of Solas" probably sounds a lot like "nah, they're a rogue agent, they're not following the Qun."
But I'm asking, why didn't she activate Hissrad sooner in order to ensure her plan had worked? As it stood, Hissrad could actually help destroy her plan.
The Inquisition wasn't aware of any other spies in the Inquisition. And if Hissrad had attacked the Inquisitor while in any of the distant lands, no one would have known about it except him.
Ah ha, but they weren't working with him recently, and Hissrad knew this for a fact. So if this had been an official operation, she would have known what Hissrad knew. She didn't though.
Yeah, I remember all the notes and codexes stating that.
Great. In that case you can point one out to me.
No it's not. Him sleeping with random people is not part of his job. He is a spy, he does not need to sleep with anyone unless he does it to spy. Him sleeping with a random bar maid is not him spying. And don't say it's to fit it ether because he doesn't need to do that to fit in.
And for the last time get that the ben hassarth is free to do everything to do their and get to the end they need to get, that includes feeding lyrium to sarrabas.
First off, how do you know these are random people? Second, you admit it is part of his job to sleep around. So even random people can be sources of info. Bar maids hear and see plenty of things.
Not according Hissrad. He did not believe Jerrik at first because the idea sounded so absurd to him. He said Viddasala would NEVER let saarebas within a thousand feet of lyrium. Her purpose is to stop magic, not encourage it.
Yes they are. Stop being so stubborn. The very game tells you this.
Proof? The video you showed was of a non-alliance worldstate. And the Qunari stated that Viddasala was rogue and the forces they were sending south were to stop her. With her dead, they had no reason to go south. This directly contradicts what Viddasala said about how the Qunari would now take the way of blades. They didn't, because she was lying.
Why would the Qunari attack the south at all when they are still at war with Tevinter? That makes no tactical sense.
Why? None of what they did to the saarabas effected them negatively. All it show is that the saarabas have far more self control then they thought they did with magic and did not need to be collared.
Since when are the Qunari result oriented? It doesn't matter if there are negative effects or not, the RULE is to not let saarebas anywhere near lyrium. The Qun demands that saarebas' magic be suppressed, and only let loose on enemies. Viddasala had an insane plan to enhance saarebas' magic in hopes he would figure out how to create the Veil as Solas is alleged to have done. Viddasala even had to write a letter convincing her followers that what she was doing was the right path.
They don't need to be collared? You sound like a Tal-Vashoth.
No they were. Why do you think Tevinter was caught off guard by a massive invasion force right after the Qunari disavowed the Vidissalla? Armies don't just appear out of nowhere, it takes significant logistics and prep time to get a proper invasion going.
Meaning the Qunari already had a massive invasion force ready for action in anticipation of something. Isn't odd that it just happened to be suddenly redirected to Tevinter right after the Vidissala failed and her actions were disavowed?
If you really believe that army wasn't meant for the South, I've got a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn
The epilogue clearly states that Tevinter was caught off guard because of their own infighting. I understand how you could have missed it, since it flashes by so fast. It says nothing of a massive invasion force.
You know what, let's put this to bed right now.
Viddasala explicitly calls out orders to members of the Antaam: You will not leave here alive, Inquisitor! Antaam, ebrashok adim!
She had members of the antaam with her to fight the elven spirits and contain the dragon. I already answered that.
Great. In that case you can point one out to me.
You first. You might as well kill two birds with one stone and also get us the evidence that Bull's return to Par Vollen was for debriefing specifically, and not re-education.
She had members of the antaam with her to fight the elven spirits and contain the dragon. I already answered that.
You also stated that she should not have any authority over Bull, given that she commands a separate unit of the Ben-Hassrath, and that she is apparently going against the Qun -- but would this not apply doubly so to these members of the Antaam? How is she pulling this many resources and people from different branches of the Qun without the Triumvirate knowing of her plans? Why would their forces be mobilized to move into the south to stop her, when their first order of business should be securing and investigating the Darvaarad (something they had ample time to do during the timeline of Trespasser)?
Define "self control". He was summoning demons (and serious demons at that).
He did a tactical retreat. Came back, and shielded Viddasala and the mirror she went into.
First off, how do you know these are random people? Second, you admit it is part of his job to sleep around. So even random people can be sources of info. Bar maids hear and see plenty of things.
Not according Hissrad. He did not believe Jerrik at first because the idea sounded so absurd to him. He said Viddasala would NEVER let saarebas within a thousand feet of lyrium. Her purpose is to stop magic, not encourage it.
Proof? The video you showed was of a non-alliance worldstate. And the Qunari stated that Viddasala was rogue and the forces they were sending south were to stop her. With her dead, they had no reason to go south. This directly contradicts what Viddasala said about how the Qunari would now take the way of blades. They didn't, because she was lying.
Why would the Qunari attack the south at all when they are still at war with Tevinter? That makes no tactical sense.
Since when are the Qunari result oriented? It doesn't matter if there are negative effects or not, the RULE is to not let saarebas anywhere near lyrium. The Qun demands that saarebas' magic be suppressed, and only let loose on enemies. Viddasala had an insane plan to enhance saarebas' magic in hopes he would figure out how to create the Veil as Solas is alleged to have done. Viddasala even had to write a letter convincing her followers that what she was doing was the right path.
They don't need to be collared? You sound like a Tal-Vashoth.
The epilogue clearly states that Tevinter was caught off guard because of their own infighting. I understand how you could have missed it, since it flashes by so fast. It says nothing of a massive invasion force.
1. Because of all the side chatter stating so. He slept with bar maids, servents, lay sisters and final Dorian or the Inquisitor in dai alone. Cole even points it out and then does not understand it.
2.The treaty would not make a difference. Also, the qunari since the war with the south ended never tevintor again till now. They were only fighting on the island of seheron. Never on Tervintor south fom the time of the steel age. Then as soon and the events trespasser starts, a full invasion start. Before this even iron bull made it a point that the qunari war not really at war with tevintor and it was just slap fights.
And it make sense to sweep the south. if they take out the south quickly with this plan they can then attack tevinter at all sides. We've been tell this to you for weeks now.
3. *face palm.
4.They were never truely at war. they were only doing slap fights in seheron. No one was invading anyone till after trespasser. That does not ring any alarm bells.
She had members of the antaam with her to fight the elven spirits and contain the dragon. I already answered that.
You don't get it. ben-hassarth don't normally have command over the Anataam at all. Under normal circumstances ben-hasserth work with their own people. She would only have antaam there if they were given to her by the leaders of the qun.
You first. You might as well kill two birds with one stone and also get us the evidence that Bull's return to Par Vollen was for debriefing specifically, and not re-education.
You also stated that she should not have any authority over Bull, given that she commands a separate unit of the Ben-Hassrath, and that she is apparently going against the Qun -- but would this not apply doubly so to these members of the Antaam? How is she pulling this many resources and people from different branches of the Qun without the Triumvirate knowing of her plans? Why would their forces be mobilized to move into the south to stop her, when their first order of business should be securing and investigating the Darvaarad (something they had ample time to do during the timeline of Trespasser)?
Fine. I will quote Bull word for word. This is from the party after defeating Corypheus. Bull sacrificed the Chargers and was not in the final battle with Corypheus.
"I expect they'll call me back for a more detailed report. Not many experts on demons and old magisters under the Qun."
When asked if returning to the Qun is what he really wants, he says,
"I think... yeah. Iron Bull was fun, but it's time to be Qunari again. I think I'll be ready when they call me in."
It would apply especially to the members of the Antaam, unless they were ordered by their superior to serve Viddasala at the Darvaarad. And I explained this. Viddasala was primarily researching magic at the Darvaarad, which included keeping the Ataashi dragon. She was also doing battle against Solas' spirit guardians. That is what she needed the Antaam for, and you'll notice that these battles were occurring long before any conflicts with the Inquisition. Using them to attack the Inquisition was never in her reports, which is why the Triumvirate states in their reply letter to Josephine (intercepted by Viddasala) that they have no knowledge of any hostilities in the south. As for why the Antaam would obey her orders to attack the Inquisition, she told them that the Inquisition was working with the agent of Fen'Harel, Solas. That's all they needed.
Also notice how the Antaam soldiers will attack Hissrad and try to kill him just the same. This is because Viddasala and Hissrad are not connected. Hissrad knows that Solas left the Inquisition years ago, and Leliana is unable to find him. He also knows the Inquisition isn't helping any agent of Fen'Harel. He also knows the south is trying to curb the Inquisition. But Viddasala knows none of these things. The Triumvirate knows what Hissrad knows. So there's no way they would support Viddasala's plans. Also notice that Viddasala actually believed what she said. She really believed that the Inquisition was working with Solas. Before leaving the Darvaarad she tells the Inquisitor that if he truly did not know, then he was just being used. She then tells him "panahedan", and that if it's any consolation, Solas will not live much longer.
The Triumvirate did not know of Viddasala's actions in the south until Josephine contacted them. Before this, Hissrad tried to contact his superiors to no avail. We aren't told why, but Viddasala may have been intercepting Hissrad's letters. So they could not have mobilized anyone against the Darvaarad until after receiving the letter from Josephine, and I think their letter even states that they are investigating Viddasala now that they know. The thing is, the Inquisitor can get there immediately, and in any case gets there well before the Antaam can. The Inquisitor then deals with Viddasala's forces and Dragon's Breath before the Qunari forces get there, which means they have no reason to be there and hence they return to the north.
I would also like to submit this evidence found in the Deep Roads near the massive store of lyrium:
Communiqué in the Deep Roads
Half of this message is written in an unfamiliar alphabet, probably Qunlat. The rest is common - and carefully lettered by someone who was clearly struggling with the language:
Viddathari Kith:
The bas disruption of the Ataashi-asaara must be ended at once. Herah decreases with each- (this line is crossed out).
The Dragon's Breath must be complete. Locate and eliminate bas hissra- (this is also crossed out). Eliminate agents of Fen'Harel. Time runs out.
End quote. The second sentence seems to call for Hissrad's death. Then it's crossed out, and the order is to eliminate agents of Fen'Harel. The narration at the top shows that the author of this letter was Qunari, as they had Qunlat written in it, and then the part we get to read is carefully worded in the common language.
So here we have those working for Viddasala calling for Hissrad's death. And we see Qunari actually trying to kill him.
Pretty clear evidence that this faction of Qunari were rogue, and didn't care about Qunari killing Qunari.
He did a tactical retreat. Came back, and shielded Viddasala and the mirror she went into.
Or did he? Seems like he was just mindlessly raging and it just so happened to work out in Viddasala's favor.
You're forgetting the part where he turns into a blue ring ally and attacks the other Qunari on the bridge.
Screw this.. We lost the Chargers hoping to forge an alliance with a race that had historically never done that. They just reached out and we thought we were making history and then. This ****...
I have to replay now, just to keep this muscle-bound idiot alive. 8I
When asked if returning to the Qun is what he really wants, he says,
Yes, we know that Bull states as much, but we have no reason to believe it will simply end at that. The Qunari were already displeased with his methods, as Gatt mentions, and it would not be the first time Bull received re-education between deployments.
It would apply especially to the members of the Antaam, unless they were ordered by their superior to serve Viddasala at the Darvaarad. And I explained this. Viddasala was primarily researching magic at the Darvaarad, which included keeping the Ataashi dragon. She was also doing battle against Solas' spirit guardians. That is what she needed the Antaam for, and you'll notice that these battles were occurring long before any conflicts with the Inquisition. Using them to attack the Inquisition was never in her reports, which is why the Triumvirate states in their reply letter to Josephine (intercepted by Viddasala) that they have no knowledge of any hostilities in the south. As for why the Antaam would obey her orders to attack the Inquisition, she told them that the Inquisition was working with the agent of Fen'Harel, Solas. That's all they needed.
Also notice how the Antaam soldiers will attack Hissrad and try to kill him just the same. This is because Viddasala and Hissrad are not connected. Hissrad knows that Solas left the Inquisition years ago, and Leliana is unable to find him. He also knows the Inquisition isn't helping any agent of Fen'Harel. He also knows the south is trying to curb the Inquisition. But Viddasala knows none of these things. The Triumvirate knows what Hissrad knows. So there's no way they would support Viddasala's plans. Also notice that Viddasala actually believed what she said. She really believed that the Inquisition was working with Solas. Before leaving the Darvaarad she tells the Inquisitor that if he truly did not know, then he was just being used. She then tells him "panahedan", and that if it's any consolation, Solas will not live much longer.
The Triumvirate did not know of Viddasala's actions in the south until Josephine contacted them. Before this, Hissrad tried to contact his superiors to no avail. We aren't told why, but Viddasala may have been intercepting Hissrad's letters. So they could not have mobilized anyone against the Darvaarad until after receiving the letter from Josephine, and I think their letter even states that they are investigating Viddasala now that they know. The thing is, the Inquisitor can get there immediately, and in any case gets there well before the Antaam can. The Inquisitor then deals with Viddasala's forces and Dragon's Breath before the Qunari forces get there, which means they have no reason to be there and hence they return to the north.
So we should believe that the Viddasala would be able to request such large amounts of resources and manpower from separate branches of the Qunari, including agents from separate branches of the Ben-Hassrath like Bull and the elven spies, without anyone knowing what is going on. We should believe that members of the Antaam were being sent though Eluvians (alien magic) and overseeing the containment of the Ataashi for the purposes of churning out large amounts of Gaatlok that was then moved offsite. We should believe that large amounts of Saarebas, usually attached to Karataams were sent to serve the Viddasala for "something", but nobody really knew.
Well, I don't.
Communiqué in the Deep Roads
Half of this message is written in an unfamiliar alphabet, probably Qunlat. The rest is common - and carefully lettered by someone who was clearly struggling with the language:
Viddathari Kith:
The bas disruption of the Ataashi-asaara must be ended at once. Herah decreases with each- (this line is crossed out).
The Dragon's Breath must be complete. Locate and eliminate bas hissra- (this is also crossed out). Eliminate agents of Fen'Harel. Time runs out.
End quote. The second sentence seems to call for Hissrad's death. Then it's crossed out, and the order is to eliminate agents of Fen'Harel. The narration at the top shows that the author of this letter was Qunari, as they had Qunlat written in it, and then the part we get to read is carefully worded in the common language.
So here we have those working for Viddasala calling for Hissrad's death. And we see Qunari actually trying to kill him.
Pretty clear evidence that this faction of Qunari were rogue, and didn't care about Qunari killing Qunari.
In this context, "bas hissrad" would roughly translate to "enemy spy", much like how "bas saarebas" meant "mage not of the Qun". It was not referring to the Hissrad we are acquainted with, but agents of Solas, which the writer then stated as a correction. As the description for the text literally states, the author was not fluent in Thedas' common tongue.
1. Because of all the side chatter stating so. He slept with bar maids, servents, lay sisters and final Dorian or the Inquisitor in dai alone. Cole even points it out and then does not understand it.
2.The treaty would not make a difference. Also, the qunari since the war with the south ended never tevintor again till now. They were only fighting on the island of seheron. Never on Tervintor south fom the time of the steel age. Then as soon and the events trespasser starts, a full invasion start. Before this even iron bull made it a point that the qunari war not really at war with tevintor and it was just slap fights.
And it make sense to sweep the south. if they take out the south quickly with this plan they can then attack tevinter at all sides. We've been tell this to you for weeks now.
3. *face palm.
4.They were never truely at war. they were only doing slap fights in seheron. No one was invading anyone till after trespasser. That does not ring any alarm bells.
1. The side chatter states he slept with people that SEEM random. Perhaps there was a method to it that we non-spies cannot see. Same goes for Cole.
Also, you seem to have skipped over the point I made about Jerrik and how Hissrad didn't believe him because Viddasala's role is to not let Saarebas anywhere near lyrium.
2. The alliance would make a difference, because there would be other means to deal with the perceived threat, and they would have Hissrad on the inside giving them information. In a world state with no alliance, then the Qunari have no one inside giving them accurate information. And there would also be no missions to stop Venatori, which go a long way in pleasing the Triumvirate.
Bull didn't say that, Dorian did. And nothing else you wrote is accurate. The war was just one mild conflict after another, until after Trespasser when the assault against Tevinter was increased. Tevinter was caught off guard because of internal conflict. But my point remains. The Qunari would not divide their forces against the south when they have yet to even topple Tevinter. A division of resources would only help Tevinter push back, and it would unite the whole of Thedas against the Qunari.
3. Which fact are you covering your eyes to? That Viddasala wrote a letter persuading the doubtful Qunari to follow her directive, or that the Qunari are rule oriented and not result oriented?
4. Well, what I told you is fact. The epilogue states they were caught off guard because of infighting. But regardless, you do admit that the aggression against Tevinter was merely increased from a 1 to maybe a 4, and that this is not a case of some massive invasion force being redirected from the south to Tevinter, yes?
You don't get it. ben-hassarth don't normally have command over the Anataam at all. Under normal circumstances ben-hasserth work with their own people. She would only have antaam there if they were given to her by the leaders of the qun.
Don't normally have command? Meaning they do sometimes? And why can't this be one of those sometimes?
Given to her for what purpose though? To run the Darvaarad? Yes. To battle elven spirits? Yes. To attack the south? No.
I really don't get the complaint, it was the Inquisitor (YOU) who chose. When Bull had to choose between friendship and the Qun you told him to pick the Qun and now you complain he is consistent with that?
If you decided that friends > Qun when the Chargers were in peril, he will stick to that logic and remain by your side. It's really up to you, so...
I really don't get the complaint, it was the Inquisitor (YOU) who chose. When Bull had to choose between friendship and the Qun you told him to pick the Qun and now you complain he is consistent with that?
If you decided that friends > Qun when the Chargers were in peril, he will stick to that logic and remain by your side. It's really up to you, so...
I know right? Bull wasn't even Bull anymore either. Most likely re-educated to forget everything he lost. Cole said he felt nothing.
Yes, we know that Bull states as much, but we have no reason to believe it will simply end at that. The Qunari were already displeased with his methods, as Gatt mentions, and it would not be the first time Bull received re-education between deployments.
So we should believe that the Viddasala would be able to request such large amounts of resources and manpower from separate branches of the Qunari, including agents from separate branches of the Ben-Hassrath like Bull and the elven spies, without anyone knowing what is going on. We should believe that members of the Antaam were being sent though Eluvians (alien magic) and overseeing the containment of the Ataashi for the purposes of churning out large amounts of Gaatlok that was then moved offsite. We should believe that large amounts of Saarebas, usually attached to Karataams were sent to serve the Viddasala for "something", but nobody really knew.
Well, I don't.
In this context, "bas hissrad" would roughly translate to "enemy spy", much like how "bas saarebas" meant "mage not of the Qun". It was not referring to the Hissrad we are acquainted with, but agents of Solas, which the writer then stated as a correction. As the description for the text literally states, the author was not fluent in Thedas' common tongue.
Um, yes we do. Bull says he thinks he'll be ready when they call him in, and since he did prove himself in the Storm Coast mission the Qunari have no reason to believe he is in need of reeducation.
But even the first time he received reeducation he submitted himself to it. So they aren't going to put him through it unless he requests it for some reason, and at the end of the game he shows that he is ready to be Qunari again.
Viddasala did not have Hissrad. Which is why she was so uninformed. And the spies in the select locations were all HER spies.
Why is it hard to believe the Qunari would be fooled by Viddasala? They seem to be a society built on trust in those who swear to the Qun. Someone of Viddasala's rank would be afforded a great deal of trust. And if her reports all satisfied the Triumvirate, there would be no reason to suspect her of anything. I mean, our very own Inquisition seems to be prone to deception at every turn. So why not the Qunari too? Or do you believe the Triumvirate knowingly approved Viddasala bringing in red lyrium when the Storm Coast mission was specifically formed to stop red lyrium from getting in? And as I pointed out to leaguer of one, Viddasala wrote a letter to her own followers asking them to trust her in her directive. She obviously had some doubters in her ranks.
But "bas" just means "thing". And "hissrad" doesn't mean spy, it means "liar". That is Iron Bull's title.
I really don't get the complaint, it was the Inquisitor (YOU) who chose. When Bull had to choose between friendship and the Qun you told him to pick the Qun and now you complain he is consistent with that?
If you decided that friends > Qun when the Chargers were in peril, he will stick to that logic and remain by your side. It's really up to you, so...
The complaint is that the in-game evidence suggests that Viddasala was a rogue agent acting outside of the Qun, and thus Hissrad would have no reason to obey her order.
The complaint is that Hissrad didn't side with the Qun. He sided with what was essentially a Tal-Vashoth against YOU, the stated ally of the Qunari.
I wanted Hissrad to side with the Qun against me. I wanted to fight him and possibly kill him. I wanted the Qun to betray the alliance and go to war with the south. But sadly, this was all written off as Viddasala acting without sanction and Hissrad being a complete idiot in not seeing that, even after he helped us kill a ton of Qunari and stop Dragon's Breath from succeeding.
It was a failed storyline.
Um, yes we do. Bull says he thinks he'll be ready when they call him in, and since he did prove himself in the Storm Coast mission the Qunari have no reason to believe he is in need of reeducation.
But even the first time he received reeducation he submitted himself to it. So they aren't going to put him through it unless he requests it for some reason, and at the end of the game he shows that he is ready to be Qunari again.
Viddasala did not have Hissrad. Which is why she was so uninformed. And the spies in the select locations were all HER spies.
Why is it hard to believe the Qunari would be fooled by Viddasala? They seem to be a society built on trust in those who swear to the Qun. Someone of Viddasala's rank would be afforded a great deal of trust. And if her reports all satisfied the Triumvirate, there would be no reason to suspect her of anything. I mean, our very own Inquisition seems to be prone to deception at every turn. So why not the Qunari too? Or do you believe the Triumvirate knowingly approved Viddasala bringing in red lyrium when the Storm Coast mission was specifically formed to stop red lyrium from getting in? And as I pointed out to leaguer of one, Viddasala wrote a letter to her own followers asking them to trust her in her directive. She obviously had some doubters in her ranks.
But "bas" just means "thing". And "hissrad" doesn't mean spy, it means "liar". That is Iron Bull's title.
The complaint is that the in-game evidence suggests that Viddasala was a rogue agent acting outside of the Qun, and thus Hissrad would have no reason to obey her order.
The complaint is that Hissrad didn't side with the Qun. He sided with what was essentially a Tal-Vashoth against YOU, the stated ally of the Qunari.
I wanted Hissrad to side with the Qun against me. I wanted to fight him and possibly kill him. I wanted the Qun to betray the alliance and go to war with the south. But sadly, this was all written off as Viddasala acting without sanction and Hissrad being a complete idiot in not seeing that, even after he helped us kill a ton of Qunari and stop Dragon's Breath from succeeding.
It was a failed storyline.
From what I see, one month after the DLC was launched you guys are still picking up every small detail to find out IF she was actually acting on her own or not. Why should Bull be able to find it out on the spurge of the moment? She said she was acting on the qun, everything was pointing to it, he was not on his house pausing the game to analyze every word of every note found on the ground.
As said above, there were antaam with her. Were they given to her for this mission as you point out? Maybe not, but even if not they were doing it. So either she has the authority to order members of the qun on this mission or she is fooling them into doing more than what she was given the right to. Either way, you can't hope Bull will see through all that when the antaam who were part of it since the start didn't (and that's assuming it was a lie),
Um, yes we do. Bull says he thinks he'll be ready when they call him in, and since he did prove himself in the Storm Coast mission the Qunari have no reason to believe he is in need of reeducation.
The Qunari do have a reason to believe that... which is why their displeasure was mentioned.
And Bull didn't prove much, we did. The Inquisitor gives the order, and Bull simply carries it out. That doesn't really mean he's in the clear regarding re-assessment and/or re-education (he even tells Varric that he is "not a friend of the alliance")
But even the first time he received reeducation he submitted himself to it. So they aren't going to put him through it unless he requests it for some reason,
Yep, that's definitely how the Qunari work.
Viddasala did not have Hissrad. Which is why she was so uninformed. And the spies in the select locations were all HER spies.
Intel and sabotage are the duties of "Dangerous Questions", Iron Bull's branch, and the same branch that any covert operatives working outside Paar Vollen would be assigned to.
Why is it hard to believe the Qunari would be fooled by Viddasala? They seem to be a society built on trust in those who swear to the Qun. Someone of Viddasala's rank would be afforded a great deal of trust. And if her reports all satisfied the Triumvirate, there would be no reason to suspect her of anything. I mean, our very own Inquisition seems to be prone to deception at every turn. So why not the Qunari too? Or do you believe the Triumvirate knowingly approved Viddasala bringing in red lyrium when the Storm Coast mission was specifically formed to stop red lyrium from getting in? And as I pointed out to leaguer of one, Viddasala wrote a letter to her own followers asking them to trust her in her directive. She obviously had some doubters in her ranks.
No, the Qunari have never been presented as that. They have always been about order and heavily-centralized authority. Which means logs, reports, manifests, rosters etc. not "Hey, can I borrow a bunch of troops and mages for... stuff" "Sure thing bro". The alternative you are presenting makes them little better than a collection of feudal lords, which would also make any one perspective of what the Qun "is" and its demands wholly suspect and irrelevant.
As it is, these agents and laborers from other branches have their own people to report to, and the Viddasala is not going to be able to hide her plans from everyone, especially in the presence of doubters.
As for your comparison to the Inquisition, it is a paramilitary force not beholden to any governing body... which would actually be the antithesis of what the Qunari claim to practice.
But "bas" just means "thing". And "hissrad" doesn't mean spy, it means "liar". That is Iron Bull's title.
And "bas hissrad" would just mean "thing liar", if you want to go by a literal translation. But then, why not just say "hissrad" in that case? "Bas saarebas", as the Arvaarad might call Hawke in DA2, would mean "thing dangerous thing" translated literally.
But... you don't translate one language into another literally, not in the real world and not in Dragon Age. We already know Bas is used as both a pejorative and as a term referring to those who live outside the Qun. Thus, "bas saarebas" meaning "unbound mage", "enemy mage", "unenlightened mage" etc. depending on context, and the same goes for "bas hissrad".
Yes, hissrad is Iron Bull's designation, but Iron Bull is not the only hissrad, just as Sten was not the only sten.
So your whole position hinges on IB being the only one with that title, which would mean that they created it specifically for him. Is this also the opinion you have of Sten?
No, my whole position does not hinge on that one letter. That is just one extra piece of evidence that supports me.
So are you trying to say that the note refers to some other Hissrad, not Iron Bull? What other Hissrad is working with "agents of Fen'Harel", which is what Viddasala calls the Inquisition?
From what I see, one month after the DLC was launched you guys are still picking up every small detail to find out IF she was actually acting on her own or not. Why should Bull be able to find it out on the spurge of the moment? She said she was acting on the qun, everything was pointing to it, he was not on his house pausing the game to analyze every word of every note found on the ground.
As said above, there were antaam with her. Were they given to her for this mission as you point out? Maybe not, but even if not they were doing it. So either she has the authority to order members of the qun on this mission or she is fooling them into doing more than what she was given the right to. Either way, you can't hope Bull will see through all that when the antaam who were part of it since the start didn't (and that's assuming it was a lie),
One month isn't a long time. Maybe if we were debating this for a year you could say that the situation isn't clear, but so far I have been the one posting facts and others are posting their interpretations of the facts.
I took Hissrad with me to the Darvaarad. We found the letter from the Triumvirate. The letter said they had no knowledge of Viddasala's actions in the south, and it said that the alliance with the Inquisition is one they value greatly. That should have been all Hissrad needed to regard Viddasala as rogue. He already said that he thought they were a rogue faction, and there was other evidence suggesting they were. They even tried to kill HIM. If all of that was nothing but a ruse, then what the heck was he waiting for? The Inquisition had already foiled Dragon's Breath by the time they reach the Darvaarad.
No. The Antaam soldiers were given to her to fight the elven spirits, protect the Darvaarad, and contain the dragon. She misused them by calling the Inquisition agents of Fen'Harel and lying to them about what was going on. Some even questioned her. She had to persuade them that what they were doing was within the Qun. The gatekeeper even raised concerns that one of the Ben-Hassrath agents was failing to report the locations of the artifacts they found, to the point where he requested a murder knife from his sten.
The antaam is different. They are soldiers who follow orders. Hissrad is a liar and a spy. His role is to notice stuff like this. His role was to be an inside man within the Inquisition. He should have known that Viddasala was rogue and had no authority to pull him away from his assigned purpose. And keep in mind this is the same Hissrad who is willing to abandon the Qun entirely even though he knows the orders are official, just to save some mercs. So why wouldn't he stick to his official role under the Qun and ignore someone who is obviously acting without orders, or at least could be argued was acting outside the Qun? It isn't like Hissrad would have faced any kind of punishment for refusing Viddasala's order. It isn't like anyone would have known.
The whole situation was one in which the expert spy with the brilliant observational skills suddenly sticks his head up his own butt and chooses to become Tal-Vashoth and fight against the people he knows will obliterate him in under 30 seconds.
One month isn't a long time. Maybe if we were debating this for a year you could say that the situation isn't clear, but so far I have been the one posting facts and others are posting their interpretations of the facts.
I took Hissrad with me to the Darvaarad. We found the letter from the Triumvirate. The letter said they had no knowledge of Viddasala's actions in the south, and it said that the alliance with the Inquisition is one they value greatly. That should have been all Hissrad needed to regard Viddasala as rogue. He already said that he thought they were a rogue faction, and there was other evidence suggesting they were. They even tried to kill HIM. If all of that was nothing but a ruse, then what the heck was he waiting for? The Inquisition had already foiled Dragon's Breath by the time they reach the Darvaarad.
No. The Antaam soldiers were given to her to fight the elven spirits, protect the Darvaarad, and contain the dragon. She misused them by calling the Inquisition agents of Fen'Harel and lying to them about what was going on. Some even questioned her. She had to persuade them that what they were doing was within the Qun. The gatekeeper even raised concerns that one of the Ben-Hassrath agents was failing to report the locations of the artifacts they found, to the point where he requested a murder knife from his sten.
The antaam is different. They are soldiers who follow orders. Hissrad is a liar and a spy. His role is to notice stuff like this. His role was to be an inside man within the Inquisition. He should have known that Viddasala was rogue and had no authority to pull him away from his assigned purpose. And keep in mind this is the same Hissrad who is willing to abandon the Qun entirely even though he knows the orders are official, just to save some mercs. So why wouldn't he stick to his official role under the Qun and ignore someone who is obviously acting without orders, or at least could be argued was acting outside the Qun? It isn't like Hissrad would have faced any kind of punishment for refusing Viddasala's order. It isn't like anyone would have known.
The whole situation was one in which the expert spy with the brilliant observational skills suddenly sticks his head up his own butt and chooses to become Tal-Vashoth and fight against the people he knows will obliterate him in under 30 seconds.
No, my whole position does not hinge on that one letter. That is just one extra piece of evidence that supports me.
So are you trying to say that the note refers to some other Hissrad, not Iron Bull? What other Hissrad is working with "agents of Fen'Harel", which is what Viddasala calls the Inquisition?
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