I convinced Bull to save the Chargers and I romanced him.
When the qun lady tried to get him to turn on me, he pretty-much laughed in her face. T'was a sweet moment.
While I didn't romance him I wasn't going to sacrifice the Chargers to one of the dumbest military plans in history.
Yes, true. And any politically savvy inquisitor must have known that any "alliance" with the qunari was doomed to failure. No matter what you do for them, they'll only be your friends until you sneeze at the wrong moment, thus violating some silly but oh-so-sacred religious law that compels them to murder you and your entire castle of innocent helpers. For your own good, of course. lol
Yes, true. And any politically savvy inquisitor must have known that any "alliance" with the qunari was doomed to failure. No matter what you do for them, they'll only be your friends until you sneeze at the wrong moment, thus violating some silly but oh-so-sacred religious law that compels them to murder you and your entire castle of innocent helpers. For your own good, of course. lol
What do you have to do to get him to betray you? He didn't betray me, but from what I gathered by reading other posts on this, it's like a definite, his betrayal.
You don't even have to get him to sacrifice the Chargers. If he never gives you the quest before Trespasser, he'll fight for the Qun as well. Actually, I thought it was very much Bull's style. Plus, he never lied to me, and I wasn't shocked. The old adage "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer," comes to mind. Having Bull on my team taught my Inquisitor a great deal about how the Qun operates, how they think, etc. Just as Solas knows more about me and the Inquisition, I know more about the Qun. (Plus I meta-remember Sten, and what he did to me the first time at Haven in Origins.)
You never played Dragon Age Origin?
Zevran pls.
And Sten at Haven.
He romanced my Inky and said he would never hurt her. Liar. She finished him off personally.
Yeah, deja vu Anders.
And Sten at Haven.
1. Yeeeeesssss, they do. I gave you an example. Connobar was Teyrn of Highever. Flemeth killed him. Connobar's general, a Cousland, took over.
2. Because if he did know about the plot then sending him back to the Inquisition would have put the mission at risk. He might have let the information slip, either to the Inquisitor, or to Cole. And there was no guarantee that the Inquisition would not capture and interrogate him immediately upon either discovering the plot, or surviving the plot, or the plot going wrong, or just out of sheer paranoia.
And the point is that if Hissrad knew nothing of Solas being involved, then he had no reason to believe the Inquisitor was working with Solas or the elven spirits. From Hissrad's perspective of not knowing anything and discovering the situation as the Inquisitor did, he would conclude that Vidasala was drawing incorrect conclusions about the Inquisition, and as far as he knew, putting the alliance at risk. Putting his position in the Inquisition at risk.
But again, if Hissrad knew the plan from the start, then why didn't he attack the Inquisitor before he could stop Dragon's Breath? Why didn't he attack in the Shattered Library? What, were they bidding their time while Hissrad cut down one fellow Qunari after another?
Well then disagree with me and write that I'm wrong. Don't call my argument a delusion. That's rude. If you want to refute my argument then post facts. I have asked you for facts. You keep posting arguments as to why it makes sense to you. That's fine, but if you want to prove that this was an official Qunari operation and end my argument completely, then show me a letter from the antaam sanctioning Vidasala's actions. Show me a report being written from Vidasala to the antaam as to what she's doing. Unless you can make the connection between Vidasala and Par Vollen, you only have a theory.
You are correct with regard to the argument, but as I was reading this two words came to mind: Deniable Plausibility!
No paper trail, no communication, if you fail, your actions will be disavowed. (Mission Impossible). Only a theory, but....
Hissrad could have had a code word or action that would trigger the order to him to report in for further instructions. Until then, his orders would have been to watch and report what he saw. Like any good spy cell, he would have no idea of what any other unit was doing until there was a need to know. By the time he did know, it was too late to go, "boy did you guys screw up." All he could do then was suit up and hope to defeat the Inquisitor where they met. Or at least that's my working hypothesis.
I think by that point most people finished his quest/had the persuade option to avoid the fight. And to be fair Sten did have a point: going to Haven was ridiculous.
It was my first or second play through, I hadn't even known that Sten was missing a sword, and I was totally WTF? And going to Haven was not ridiculous, I needed a big army, the Arl commanded a big army, he also commanded a lot of political power, I needed both. Sten was correct tactically, but not strategically.
Bull as a strict Qunari is cannon fodder, Bull as a Tal Vashoth is a legit character. It makes sad, yet complete sense.
Yeah, deja vu Anders.
Dammit, Hisraad!
The plan to go to Haven is insane. You're asked to go by Eamom's reluctant brother (and bereaved wife) to find the literal holy grail of Thedas. This should be grounds to have him removed from power. The only reason we as players sort of treat this as OK is that finding artefacts of that nature is part for the course in RPGs.It was my first or second play through, I hadn't even known that Sten was missing a sword, and I was totally WTF? And going to Haven was not ridiculous, I needed a big army, the Arl commanded a big army, he also commanded a lot of political power, I needed both. Sten was correct tactically, but not strategically.
The only reason we as players sort of treat this as OK is that finding artefacts of that nature is part for the course in RPGs.
To tell the truth, I always thought the writers did a more than decent job in bringing this quest forth: the Warden is not sent to Haven immediately: first they're sent to Denerim to find Genitivi: Haven becomes a destination only after the team discover him missing and his assistant dead: by then, events are fishy enough to make the argument for going to Haven receivable.
Not really. The whole plan is totally insane. It maybe makes some sense in a world where a Loghain isn't currently winning a civil war and the blight isn't overrunning Thedas, but at that point Arl Teagan is the infinitely saner option.
To tell the truth, I always thought the writers did a more than decent job in bringing this quest forth: the Warden is not sent to Haven immediately: first they're sent to Denerim to find Genitivi: Haven becomes a destination only after the team discover him missing and his assistant dead: by then, events are fishy enough to make the argument for going to Haven receivable.
I let the Iron Bull join - though I have yet to even reach the noble shite party - because of the chance of deception. Now that I learned it is a possibility, I can hate Qunari with a clear conscience 
.
The plan to go to Haven is insane. You're asked to go by Eamom's reluctant brother (and bereaved wife) to find the literal holy grail of Thedas. This should be grounds to have him removed from power. The only reason we as players sort of treat this as OK is that finding artefacts of that nature is part for the course in RPGs.
But imagine if in WWII Churchill fell sick and some elite unit was struck to go to Jerusalem and find the Holy Grail. We would all rightfully treat this as rank insanity and immediately remove whomever came up with the idea.
To be fair, if Churchill had taken ill during World War 2, I doubt it would have been due to the actions of a renegade magician, or that he would have been kept alive due to the efforts of his demon-possessed offspring. And as bas as the Nazis were, they still weren't a blight sent from the beyond for man's hubris in using blood magic to enter the city of the gods.
So, you know. Apples and oranges?
The whole thing falls apart unless you believe it exists. Maybe a wackjob cult thinks they have the Holy Grail and kidnapped an equally (if differently) crazy Chantry scholar.
That's actually what I expected during my first playthrough. Still, I'm a curious person, and that's the one personality trait all the characters I play share (incurious characters bore me to tears and I'm certainly not going to devote 80 hours of free time watching a boring apathetic protagonist), so I sent the whole team (including a baffled Sten) to Haven
I think by that point most people finished his quest/had the persuade option to avoid the fight. And to be fair Sten did have a point: going to Haven was ridiculous.
Hell I didn't want to go to Haven. The game literally would not proceed until I had. But thou must to the fullest.
To be fair, if Churchill had taken ill during World War 2, I doubt it would have been due to the actions of a renegade magician, or that he would have been kept alive due to the efforts of his demon-possessed offspring. And as bas as the Nazis were, they still weren't a blight sent from the beyond for man's hubris in using blood magic to enter the city of the gods.
So, you know. Apples and oranges?
Hell I didn't want to go to Haven. The game literally would not proceed until I had. But thou must to the fullest.
Kind of a strange way to finally succumb to the Qun, but I haven't played Trespasser to know details. Only read a little. I already disrespected him for basically not being up my alley to begin with. He's already banging chantry sisters in Haven (as if blowing up the Conclave isn't already a lowpoint for Chantry fans to begin with. I don't exactly have anything against Bull per se here. More like Patrick Weekes himself is just rubbing it in and turning everything into a joke), and then apparently written as some bro/mentor character about leadership advice or something later in Skyhold. I don't really care about things like that. And I don't like observing his relationship style with Dorian like he was doing in the main game. Guys or girls, I dislike spouses like this when in other company. Maybe he's just happy and enthusiastic, but he's not sensitive. It's realistic enough though. Lots of dudes like this.
The whole character isn't meant for me. And I usually love the humor in most of these games.
My only reaction to Sten was "Yes, you're entirely right, and the only reason we are here is because Bann Teagan is apparently a lunatic who's withholding his support unless we do this thing."
Yep not the game's best moment no.
(But it was really Isolde's insistence wasn't it?)
Yep not the game's best moment no.
(But it was really Isolde's insistence wasn't it?)
Even if Isolde is dead, Teagan is still onboard with it. Ultimately, he's the one with the actual power and more or less the presumptive heir that Connor is out of the line of succession.
Oh yeah I forgot that little bit.
Ugh that plot line really is just hamfisted.
You are correct with regard to the argument, but as I was reading this two words came to mind: Deniable Plausibility!
No paper trail, no communication, if you fail, your actions will be disavowed. (Mission Impossible). Only a theory, but....
Hissrad could have had a code word or action that would trigger the order to him to report in for further instructions. Until then, his orders would have been to watch and report what he saw. Like any good spy cell, he would have no idea of what any other unit was doing until there was a need to know. By the time he did know, it was too late to go, "boy did you guys screw up." All he could do then was suit up and hope to defeat the Inquisitor where they met. Or at least that's my working hypothesis.
You mean, plausible deniability? That's all fine and dandy, but if they really didn't know that Viddasala was doing all that, they would still deny any involvement and disavow her. So the onus is on the other side to prove they were involved or sanctioned her plans.
It's possible that Hissrad was trained to blank out and become a killing machine when Viddasala says a certain thing or writes it. I might even take that as canon, except for the fact that Hissrad still shows he's in his full wits by saying, "Change of plans. Nothing personal, bas." So he gives the Inquisitor fair warning before attacking, shows some concern over perceptions of himself (nothing personal/don't hate me for this), and then delivers a play on words when he calls his "boss" a "bas" instead. So he knew what he was doing, and my problem is still the fact that he should have known Viddasala was not his authority.
Also, Dragon's Breath had failed by that point, so disregarding the order was past the time when Hissrad would realize Viddasala screwed up. The option of him staying behind and then responding to Viddasala's letter or messenger is even worse. He easily could have destroyed the letter or killed the messenger and then put forth his own plausible deniability. I think he would have a better chance sticking with the Inquisitor and hoping to kill all of Viddasala's crew. I think Trespasser was trying to say that Hissrad didn't care about his own life, only following the demands of the Qun. The problem is that Viddasala was not the Qun. He was the Qun!
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