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[Arvaarad]

OMG I didn't realize that til just now

 

I'd hope so or the poor localized people are missing some gems.

 

On the other hand, maybe they get some puns and references that we don't get.

 

I don't know how much spoilery lore can be shared with the localization teams. My guess is not a lot. The English-language version probably has the most language-based foreshadowing, at least when it comes to foreshadowing stuff in future games (vs. foreshadowing events within the same game, which translators would have access to).

[squirrely1]

Thanks everyone for the good discussion.  I like the Bull character and just have been grappling with the whole betrayal thing if you hadn't noticed.

 

So what I take away from this discussion is:

 

Bull was a liar and Qunari spy from the start and is never your friend UNTIL you save the CHargers.  So basically no matter what you do in the game with Bull your friendship and loyalty rests on that one decision.  

 

Ok I think I got it now.  

[TobiTobsen]

Every time I hear it, I imagine a localization team quietly weeping at their desks.

 

For languages where there's no similar-sounding word for "boss", their options are (1) make the pun super obvious from the start, by having him call you "boss" anyway, or (2) omit the pun entirely. I also wonder what other locs did for the "better to burn out, than fade away" line in the credits. I saw a German playthrough, and Cassandra still groaned at something, so either the German translation for Fade also = their word for "fade", or there's some other pun in its place.

 

German word for the fade is "Das Nichts" - "The Nothing". It's rather easy to twist the literal translation of "better to burn out, than fade away" to fit the german word for the fade, without losing any of the cheesiness of the pun.

 

Boss - Bas stays, we use the same word.

 

"All New, Faded for Her" becomes "Alles neu, Nichts bleibt für Sie" - "All new, nothing remains for her", so the fade / the nothing connection is maintained.

[Heimdall]

Thanks everyone for the good discussion.  I like the Bull character and just have been grappling with the whole betrayal thing if you hadn't noticed.

 

So what I take away from this discussion is:

 

Bull was a liar and Qunari spy from the start and is never your friend UNTIL you save the CHargers.  So basically no matter what you do in the game with Bull your friendship and loyalty rests on that one decision.  

 

Ok I think I got it now.  

Well, he can be your friend, but how much that means to him is what changes.

[Ryzaki]

Thanks everyone for the good discussion.  I like the Bull character and just have been grappling with the whole betrayal thing if you hadn't noticed.

 

So what I take away from this discussion is:

 

Bull was a liar and Qunari spy from the start and is never your friend UNTIL you save the CHargers.  So basically no matter what you do in the game with Bull your friendship and loyalty rests on that one decision.  

 

Ok I think I got it now.  

 

Also for more foreshadowing Bull's with Qun/without qun is more similar to everyone's Friends with Quizzy/not friends icon in the keep. Qun Bull is darkened where's Tal!Bull is bright and shacking Quizzy's hand.

 

 

On the other hand, maybe they get some puns and references that we don't get.

 

I don't know how much spoilery lore can be shared with the localization teams. My guess is not a lot. The English-language version probably has the most language-based foreshadowing, at least when it comes to foreshadowing stuff in future games (vs. foreshadowing events within the same game, which translators would have access to).

 

Oh true enough!

 

Most likely but ooooh now I wanna hunt all the puns/hidden stuff.
 

[Arvaarad]

German word for the fade is "Das Nichts" - "The Nothing". It's rather easy to twist the literal translation of "better to burn out, than fade away" to fit the german word for the fade, without losing any of the cheesiness of the pun.
 
Boss - Bas stays, we use the same word.
 
"All New, Faded for Her" becomes "Alles neu, Nichts bleibt für Sie" - "All new, nothing remains for her", so the fade / the nothing connection is maintained.

 
Cool, I was hoping someone who's experienced another loc would drop in!
 
Hm, so they didn't make "Alles neu, Nichts bleibt für Sie" an anagram for "Schreckenswolf, Fen'Harel" then. Wasn't sure if they'd go for a literal translation or if they'd try to make a new anagram. Looks like they went the literal route, at least in German.
 
Wait, if the Fade is "The Nothing", what's the German localization for the Void?

[TobiTobsen]

Cool, I was hoping someone who's experienced another loc would drop in!
 
Hm, so they didn't make "Alles neu, Nichts bleibt für Sie" an anagram for "Schreckenswolf, Fen'Harel" then. Wasn't sure if they'd go for a literal translation or if they'd try to make a new anagram. Looks like they went the literal route, at least in German.
 
Wait, if the Fade is "The Nothing", what's the German localization for the Void?

"Anvil of the Void" - "Amboss der Leere". Leere = void/emptiness.

Maybe we should take this to a seperate thread or pm? We're derailing the thread a bit.

[Dai Grepher]

I respected Hissrad, even as I killed him. My Inquisitor felt it coming, but he considered Hissrad kadan anyway.

 

Hissrad did not betray the Inquisitor. He merely upheld his one and only loyalty, which was to the Qun. As Thom Rainier can say if he's in the party, Hissrad was honest with you from the start. I would expect Dorian to be loyal to his home country if a war ever broke out between Tevinter and the Inquisition.

 

The only problem I had with Hissrad in that moment was that for all his training as Ben-Hassrath, and all his experience with the Inquisition, he failed to see that Vidasala was wrong. All the evidence showed she was Tal-Vashoth, but even if she was working under official sanction and orders from Par Vollen, she was operating on pieces of information and she drew the wrong conclusion. Jerran knew it. That's why he helped the Inquisitor. Hissrad should have done the same. This is especially true knowing both the fact that the Inquisition had nothing to do with any plots formed by Fen'Harel, and the fact that the Inquisitor is not going to be killed by the likes of the Ben-Hassrath. He also should have known that as soon as Vidasala was stopped, the Qunari would disavow any knowledge or involvement in her actions, and would likely declare her Tal-Vashoth.

 

Hissrad's involvement should have come with two possibilities. If his approval was high, or if he was in a romance with the Inquisitor, then he should have simply refused Vidasala's order and then told her that he knew for a fact that the Inquisitor was not an enemy and had no involvement in anything related to Fen'Harel. That's one option. The other is if his approval is low, then he dislikes the Inquisition anyway, and doesn't mind seeing a dangerous thing removed from the world. These two options could also play into if the Inquisitor drank from the Well of Sorrows and used the correct phrase to greet the elven spirits. If he did, then it makes Hissrad think the Inquisitor is part of the elven plot. If not, and the spirits attack, then it proves the Inquisitor is not involved.

 

I also don't think the Chargers should have anything to do with his decision. Vidasala attempts to bring The Iron Bull back under the Qun, and to the best of my knowledge, he always refuses. Well, I think an Iron Bull with low approval of the Inquisitor should accept the offer. Basically, it should come down to whether he wants the Inquisition stopped or not.

 

I also thought there should have been an option to leave Hissrad alive, and capture him to be judged later. Same would go for the Chargers.

[vertigomez]

Spoiler

Relevant, y'all.

[QueenCrow]

Confession:  After I killed him, I wondered briefly whether I could carve a ribeye out of him.  He was suddenly a dead cow and I was hungry while playing.  

 

Yeah, I know.  To the void with me.

[squirrely1]

I respected Hissrad, even as I killed him. My Inquisitor felt it coming, but he considered Hissrad kadan anyway.

 

Hissrad did not betray the Inquisitor. He merely upheld his one and only loyalty, which was to the Qun. As Thom Rainier can say if he's in the party, Hissrad was honest with you from the start. I would expect Dorian to be loyal to his home country if a war ever broke out between Tevinter and the Inquisition.

 

The only problem I had with Hissrad in that moment was that for all his training as Ben-Hassrath, and all his experience with the Inquisition, he failed to see that Vidasala was wrong. All the evidence showed she was Tal-Vashoth, but even if she was working under official sanction and orders from Par Vollen, she was operating on pieces of information and she drew the wrong conclusion. Jerran knew it. That's why he helped the Inquisitor. Hissrad should have done the same. This is especially true knowing both the fact that the Inquisition had nothing to do with any plots formed by Fen'Harel, and the fact that the Inquisitor is not going to be killed by the likes of the Ben-Hassrath. He also should have known that as soon as Vidasala was stopped, the Qunari would disavow any knowledge or involvement in her actions, and would likely declare her Tal-Vashoth.

 

Hissrad's involvement should have come with two possibilities. If his approval was high, or if he was in a romance with the Inquisitor, then he should have simply refused Vidasala's order and then told her that he knew for a fact that the Inquisitor was not an enemy and had no involvement in anything related to Fen'Harel. That's one option. The other is if his approval is low, then he dislikes the Inquisition anyway, and doesn't mind seeing a dangerous thing removed from the world. These two options could also play into if the Inquisitor drank from the Well of Sorrows and used the correct phrase to greet the elven spirits. If he did, then it makes Hissrad think the Inquisitor is part of the elven plot. If not, and the spirits attack, then it proves the Inquisitor is not involved.

 

I also don't think the Chargers should have anything to do with his decision. Vidasala attempts to bring The Iron Bull back under the Qun, and to the best of my knowledge, he always refuses. Well, I think an Iron Bull with low approval of the Inquisitor should accept the offer. Basically, it should come down to whether he wants the Inquisition stopped or not.

 

I also thought there should have been an option to leave Hissrad alive, and capture him to be judged later. Same would go for the Chargers.

Amen brother!  This is what I'm talking about.  They took a very complex character and set of circumstances and made one hinge pin decision point to determine the outcome of Bull's whole character.  That really doesn't do his character or his arc any justice IMO. Even with all the shocking revelations of Blackwall's deception and possible disloyal behavior, we had a process by which we could fairly judge and at least talk to him and get more information.  Now granted the end of the game you don't actually have loads of time to sit and have a trial or anything but it would've been nice (Harking back to Wrex situation in ME) if we could've had a little more...at least from Bull's own mouth.

[leaguer of one]

I respected Hissrad, even as I killed him. My Inquisitor felt it coming, but he considered Hissrad kadan anyway.

 

Hissrad did not betray the Inquisitor. He merely upheld his one and only loyalty, which was to the Qun. As Thom Rainier can say if he's in the party, Hissrad was honest with you from the start. I would expect Dorian to be loyal to his home country if a war ever broke out between Tevinter and the Inquisition.

 

The only problem I had with Hissrad in that moment was that for all his training as Ben-Hassrath, and all his experience with the Inquisition, he failed to see that Vidasala was wrong. All the evidence showed she was Tal-Vashoth, but even if she was working under official sanction and orders from Par Vollen, she was operating on pieces of information and she drew the wrong conclusion. Jerran knew it. That's why he helped the Inquisitor. Hissrad should have done the same. This is especially true knowing both the fact that the Inquisition had nothing to do with any plots formed by Fen'Harel, and the fact that the Inquisitor is not going to be killed by the likes of the Ben-Hassrath. He also should have known that as soon as Vidasala was stopped, the Qunari would disavow any knowledge or involvement in her actions, and would likely declare her Tal-Vashoth.

 

Hissrad's involvement should have come with two possibilities. If his approval was high, or if he was in a romance with the Inquisitor, then he should have simply refused Vidasala's order and then told her that he knew for a fact that the Inquisitor was not an enemy and had no involvement in anything related to Fen'Harel. That's one option. The other is if his approval is low, then he dislikes the Inquisition anyway, and doesn't mind seeing a dangerous thing removed from the world. These two options could also play into if the Inquisitor drank from the Well of Sorrows and used the correct phrase to greet the elven spirits. If he did, then it makes Hissrad think the Inquisitor is part of the elven plot. If not, and the spirits attack, then it proves the Inquisitor is not involved.

 

I also don't think the Chargers should have anything to do with his decision. Vidasala attempts to bring The Iron Bull back under the Qun, and to the best of my knowledge, he always refuses. Well, I think an Iron Bull with low approval of the Inquisitor should accept the offer. Basically, it should come down to whether he wants the Inquisition stopped or not.

 

I also thought there should have been an option to leave Hissrad alive, and capture him to be judged later. Same would go for the Chargers.

I don't believe that at all.

 

1.  A rogue team of qunari would not have the qunari nation ready to invade the south after killing off the nobles. The fact that is part of the plan means they are not rogue.

 

2.It not just one even. The thing that dicides it with the iron bull is if he learns to live with out the qun or not. if he does not  he is going to fallow is nature and fallow the qun.

[Ryzaki]

Having Bull's decision to join the Qun evolve around his opinion of the Inquisitor instead of the Chargers would lessen the impact severely. Then instead of a crisis of faith and personality it just becomes a "well I just don't like you" and that devalues it for me immensely.

[vertigomez]

Having Bull's decision to join the Qun evolve around his opinion of the Inquisitor instead of the Chargers would lessen the impact severely. Then instead of a crisis of faith and personality it just becomes a "well I just don't like you" and that devalues it for me immensely.

Thiiissssss. I HOPE YOU LIKE LIKES, AMIGO, 'CAUSE YOU'RE GETTING ALL OF THEM TONIGHT.

Confession:  After I killed him, I wondered briefly whether I could carve a ribeye out of him.  He was suddenly a dead cow and I was hungry while playing.  
 
Yeah, I know.  To the void with me.

Why eat Bull when you can eat his pie? He has like a thousand lying around Skyhold.

[squirrely1]

Having Bull's decision to join the Qun evolve around his opinion of the Inquisitor instead of the Chargers would lessen the impact severely. Then instead of a crisis of faith and personality it just becomes a "well I just don't like you" and that devalues it for me immensely.

I agree, and that is why I think this huge character shaping decision should've come in a few more smaller decisions or pieces.  Or at least a chance to talk to Bull in the end to get more...but alas ...no time.    Because now for me....his whole friendship was a lie for the ENTIRE game and that to me just hurts so much.  But luckily I have my other PT where I saved the Chargers

[Ryzaki]

Thiiissssss. I HOPE YOU LIKE LIKES, AMIGO, 'CAUSE YOU'RE GETTING ALL OF THEM TONIGHT.


Why eat Bull when you can eat his pie? He has like a thousand lying around Skyhold.

 

aww sucks.

 

Bull does love his food

[Ryzaki]

I agree, and that is why I think this huge character shaping decision should've come in a few more smaller decisions or pieces.  Or at least a chance to talk to Bull in the end to get more...but alas ...no time.    Because now for me....his whole friendship was a lie for the ENTIRE game and that to me just hurts so much.  But luckily I have my other PT where I saved the Chargers

 

Yep the friendship you have with Qun!Bull doesn't overcome his duty. Sad but fitting.

 

But you do talk with Bull after the decision's been made. You get a unique conversation for chargers alive/dead. It's just in Trepasser I figure it's too late for anything to be said. 2 years have passed and Bull's set on his path at that point and there's nothing you can do anymore.

 

(Also screw egghead throwing that in my girl's face. She couldn't dump him fast enough).

[squirrely1]

Yep the friendship you have with Qun!Bull doesn't overcome his duty. Sad but fitting.

 

But you do talk with Bull after the decision's been made. You get a unique conversation for chargers alive/dead. It's just in Trepasser I figure it's too late for anything to be said. 2 years have passed and Bull's set on his path at that point and there's nothing you can do anymore.

 

(Also screw egghead throwing that in my girl's face. She couldn't dump him fast enough).

AKA killing his arse. LOL  that is the ultimate in getting dumped.  Oh why Oh why did Bull think he could attempt to kill the Inquisitor and live?  I think we should've gotten a .... "RUN BULL AND SAVE YOURSELF!!!"  Option  

[Ryzaki]

AKA killing his arse. LOL  that is the ultimate in getting dumped.  Oh why Oh why did Bull think he could attempt to kill the Inquisitor and live?  I think we should've gotten a .... "RUN BULL AND SAVE YOURSELF!!!"  Option  

 

wait Egghead isn't Bull egg head is Solas. I should've made that clearer.

 

I never romance Qun!Bull. The differences in the last romance scene strike me as icky. Where's Tal!Bull can say he loves you or you can troll him or he can beg quizzy not to speak about his death Qun!Bull feels less intimate where's you're pretty much exchanging thank yous. Scene made my nose wrinkle.

[squirrely1]

wait Egghead isn't Bull egg head is Solas. I should've made that clearer.

 

I never romance Qun!Bull. The differences in the last romance scene strike me as icky. Where's Tal!Bull can say he loves you or you can troll him or he can beg quizzy not to speak about his death Qun!Bull feels less intimate where's you're pretty much exchanging thank yous. Scene made my nose wrinkle.

ah ok thanks for clearing that up! LOL

[Precursor Meta]

Well, watching your friends die can have long term, traumatizing effects. When you persuaded Bull into letting his friends (his family in my eyes) die in favor of "The Mission" something probably snapped inside him.

 

Now he probably thinks like a machine. When duty demands you to act, then you act no matter the circumstances.

[squirrely1]

Well, watching your friends die can have long term, traumatizing effects. When you persuaded Bull into letting his friends (his family in my eyes) die in favor of "The Mission" something probably snapped inside him.

 

Now he probably thinks like a machine. When duty demands you to act, then you act no matter the circumstances.

See that's just it....I know this seems like splitting hairs but still this bugs me.   It's not letting the Chargers die that makes Bull snap to the dark side....it's SAVING THE CHARGERS that ultimately changes him.  He was already that lying Ben Hassrath spy in your ranks and he was there to get close to the inquisition and learn all he could for the Qun....the day you SAVED the Chargers was the day that Bull opened his eyes and realized where his true loyalty was. 

[Ryzaki]

See that's just it....I know this seems like splitting hairs but still this bugs me.   It's not letting the Chargers die that makes Bull snap to the dark side....it's SAVING THE CHARGERS that ultimately changes him.  He was already that lying Ben Hassrath spy in your ranks and he was there to get close to the inquisition and learn all he could for the Qun....the day you SAVED the Chargers was the day that Bull opened his eyes and realized where his true loyalty was. 

 

No the days after you saved the Chargers was when Bull finally took that last step and completely broke free of the Qun (even if it was forced). If Bull can't get free from the Qun...yes he will remain Hissrad with all that entails.

 

You should think less of it as saving the chargers and more of him breaking away from the Qun. He changes via that break. It's why even with the chargers alive if he wasn't forced to make that break he will still betray you.

[Kurogane335]

Every time I hear it, I imagine a localization team quietly weeping at their desks.

 

For languages where there's no similar-sounding word for "boss", their options are (1) make the pun super obvious from the start, by having him call you "boss" anyway, or (2) omit the pun entirely. I also wonder what other locs did for the "better to burn out, than fade away" line in the credits. I saw a German playthrough, and Cassandra still groaned at something, so either the German translation for Fade also = their word for "fade", or there's some other pun in its place.

 

Well, in French the pun doesn't work, since he call you "chef" the whole game, and not boss. Damn it !

[spinachdiaper]

Two betrayals or one, If Bull goes with the Qun then he betrays his friends, or He goes Tal Vashoth and betrays the Qun. Frankly this just nails home that fact that all ideologies and religions in Dragon Age are bad and need to be obliterated.