42 réponses à ce sujet

[ottffsse]

Here are some of the best staves your cash and materials can buy. For crit builds, emphasizing very high crit damage (140-180+)and decent crit chance anywhere from 33 to just under 50%. So Best to use on a player controlled Mage employing Ring of Doubt for auto crits.

I did not equip a Vitaar as not all players go Qunari or have means to equip them.
I did have deepstalker sigil though fro extra flanking damage in my armour.

Here are some of the "bad boys" tested:

Hakkon's Wisdom (unique drop after slaying Hakkon#
http://s1196.photobu...tml?sort=3&o=15

Crafted Legendary Staff of Corruption #BE#Version 1
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=6

Crafted Legendary Staff of Corruption #BE#Version 2
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=5

Crafted Staff of Loviath #BE#
http://s1196.photobu...tml?sort=3&o=14

Crafted Lyrium Staff #Descent# with 10% Masterwork lol @ item lvl 28
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=7

IMPORTANT NOTE: I am a sceptic of the +x% damage if not hit for 5 s masterwork, in prior patches items with this like the Dynamo Staff were bugged so if you you get hit once the effect ends permenantly unless you RELOAD? the game# That's why I crafted two versions of corruption to test#

Results:

Hakkon:
http://s1196.photobu...tml?sort=3&o=10
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=9

Crafted Legendary Staff of Corruption #BE#Version 1:
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=2
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=3

Crafted Legendary Staff of Corruption #BE#Version 2
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=1
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=0

Crafted Staff of Loviath #BE#
http://s1196.photobu...tml?sort=3&o=13
http://s1196.photobu...tml?sort=3&o=12

Crafted Lyrium Staff:
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=8
http://s1196.photobu...html?sort=3&o=4

Crafted Lyrium Fire with Enhanced #Blue# Inferno Pact belt
http://s1196.photobu...tml?sort=3&o=11

This is going for burst damage, there are important other masterworks to consider like 10% 100% chain lightning or target explodes on kill for 75% damage.

In like the Lyrium staff honestly but Hakkon #Unique# is a great staff as its damage is very good and it has 41% stagger on hit which means it was consistently knocking enemies down basically.

EDIT UPDATE:

In my opinion and tests the Hakkon unique staff does the biggest Crits unless you have two very rare masterwork schematics one is the masterwork battlemage grip and the other the masterwork archon blade.

Then you can craft something like this:


If you have Cheat Engine and on PC though you can do all kinds of crazy things though and you have to set limits for what you consider gamebreaking. For instance, say you play Crit mage and like the Heart of Rage staff's masterwork permaflame effect but the attack + on the Heart of Rage Staff is not what you are after. No problem, you can craft say a slotless! (upgrade slots will be lost in the conversion) unique like the MW Legendary Corruption Staff and then apply the Heart of Rage model onto it. It will retain the crafted item's stats but be given the Heart of Rage's masterwork effect:

[JiaJM98]

encore staff is by far the best in game due to its unique effect plus upgrade slots. so you still get to use your favourate masterwork on top of the atk speed/dmg/heal on hit buff which proc so often that its pretty much means you get some type of buff for the whole fight. and the buff applies to the whole party assuming everyone is within 8 meters.

[ottffsse]

We shall see, I personally think the Lyrium staff in the example with the 92! damage base or The Hakkon with that 41% stagger / +100% crit damage will be hard to beat.

[mesiasmith]

 

Critical chance or critical damange bonus, which one is better for KE?

(if Ring of Doubt not equipped)

[ottffsse]

Critical chance or critical damange bonus, which one is better for KE?
(if Ring of Doubt not equipped)

rule of thumb: aim for at least 40% total crit chance between all your items on such a crit build. the rest will sort of even out. since flashpoint has 10s cooldown anyways. then wether you have something like 40 crit chance / 130 crit damage bonus or say 60 crit chance/ 70 crit damage bonus won't matter. those are about realistic figures, you can get a bit more.

[PawsPause]

Is there any confirmed testing of the bonus damage not being hit for 5 sec?

[ottffsse]

Is there any confirmed testing of the bonus damage not being hit for 5 sec?

tested:
Damge numbers with +20% if not hit for 5 s masterwork staff

Before (entering new zone never being hit)

138, 142
crit:
199


two fast crits just after being hit:
196, 214


before being hit sometime later:
140

two hits after being hit sometime later:

155, 155

Does this make any sense?? lol no items except staff equipped, no shock status/ no passives like power of the dead as I never killed anything

[JiaJM98]

We shall see, I personally think the Lyrium staff in the example with the 92! damage base or The Hakkon with that 41% stagger / +100% crit damage will be hard to beat.

well not many top schematics have upgrade slots! and an extra masterwork effect is no doubt awesome. I think you get a lot of crit dmg on encore staff using t3 upgrade schematics.(if i recall correctly, you can get crit dmg on pretty much every material slot with dragons webbing with one exception for a metal slot which can give %atk bonus) just stack your crit chance from armour (assuming u would rely on barrier for a mage so defence amd dmg reduction dont matter).

 

The base damage is the same as lovias, hakkon and archon staves with 125 base dmg. I appreciate that it is 11 damage lower than lyrium staff which is 136. But it has an extra masterwork, all 3 material slots being offensive (lyrium staff has a utility slot instead) plus upgrade (another 22 extra materials) which is more valuable than 11 extra base dmg for me.

 

Advantage of Lyrium staff:

11 extra base dmg

 

Advantage of Encore:

1 extra masterwork

18 extra materials can be used

all 3 material slots being offensive

[Evelynne]

11 Base damage isn't going to carry you very far in terms of damage at the end of the game. Masterworks and more Utility/Offensive stats will do that far more.

 

Especially when Encore's buff effects include:

 

20% Attack Speed Bonus for all Allies in 8 meters.

 

Bonus Elemental Damage of all 3 elements.

 

And

 

2% Health Regeneration per hit.

 

 

And these 3 buffs essentially roll through constantly (You'll almost always have one). On top of the Masterwork slot of your choice. Two of those buffs are worth far more than 11 damage. Also, did I mention if you have more than 1 Encore you can have 2 of these 3 effects up at once? 

 

Its just such a shame that you get it so late in the game.

 

Encore! is literally the best staff in the game. So sayeth the Zither! man.

[Bigdawg13]

11 base damage is a lot for staves. An equivalent for 2h would be a difference of 30 or more. Consider if you had 50% attack and an 80 damage stave. How much attack would be needed to get an equivalent base damage of 91? 21% more attack power. That's a lot of damage in every attack.

 

Please note I am denying or agreeing on the superiority of the Encore staff.  But without quantifiable evidence of the Encore buffs, it seems questionable.  Speed increase for the party is relative, and heavily dependent on party AI, skills, etc.  The health regen doesn't help with damage at all.  The damage increase for elements is interesting, but not quantified.

 

*EDIT*

 

I had a chance to check out the Mark of the Riff linked.  I have no idea if that is a joke (as I do not have Encore yet) or legit.  But even if it is, that's 42 damage added on to the end, much like rune damage.  And as most agree, runes are a joke.  They are also situational given resistance of enemies.  But an increase of 21% more attack power is on, all the time, no matter what spell.

 

Again, I am not saying Encore is best or 2nd best, or anything of the sort.  I lack the personal experience with this staff to convince myself of it's superiority or lack thereof.  But I would be a fool to dismiss 11 base damage.

[JiaJM98]

11 base damage is a lot for staves. An equivalent for 2h would be a difference of 30 or more. Consider if you had 50% attack and an 80 damage stave. How much attack would be needed to get an equivalent base damage of 91? 21% more attack power. That's a lot of damage in every attack.

Please note I am denying or agreeing on the superiority of the Encore staff. But without quantifiable evidence of the Encore buffs, it seems questionable. Speed increase for the party is relative, and heavily dependent on party AI, skills, etc. The health regen doesn't help with damage at all. The damage increase for elements is interesting, but not quantified.

as of bonus damage from elements buff, i think its around 72 or 74 for each element for each hit from game play, ignoring elemental resistance/vulnerability. so you get
72 cold
72 fire
72 electric
damage for every hit you land, including skills e.g. EB
so that works out to be 216 extra damage per hit and i do about 1k damage per auto attack. it seems that its pure added damage as opposed to %dmg increase since its independent of spells dmg amplifier.
in the case of EB, thats an extra 2.6k per skill which is reasonable given its essentially free damage. i dont think it applies to static cave, but i could be wrong as there is a lot of damage numbers float up when using static cage.
and remember this is aoe buff and usually my whole team gets it.


To be fair, usually 20% attack speed bonus is probably the best buff since it improves the whole game play massively. speed bonus also applied to abilities animation time as well and faster casting means less chance of getting interrupted. also more hits usually means lower cd time.

[Evelynne]

11 base damage is a lot for staves. An equivalent for 2h would be a difference of 30 or more. Consider if you had 50% attack and an 80 damage stave. How much attack would be needed to get an equivalent base damage of 91? 21% more attack power. That's a lot of damage in every attack.

 

Please note I am denying or agreeing on the superiority of the Encore staff.  But without quantifiable evidence of the Encore buffs, it seems questionable.  Speed increase for the party is relative, and heavily dependent on party AI, skills, etc.  The health regen doesn't help with damage at all.  The damage increase for elements is interesting, but not quantified.

 

*EDIT*

 

I had a chance to check out the Mark of the Riff linked.  I have no idea if that is a joke (as I do not have Encore yet) or legit.  But even if it is, that's 42 damage added on to the end, much like rune damage.  And as most agree, runes are a joke.  They are also situational given resistance of enemies.  But an increase of 21% more attack power is on, all the time, no matter what spell.

 

Again, I am not saying Encore is best or 2nd best, or anything of the sort.  I lack the personal experience with this staff to convince myself of it's superiority or lack thereof.  But I would be a fool to dismiss 11 base damage.

 

Mark of the Riff is a Multiplayer ability used by Zither, and 3 of his 'Power Chord' abilities were placed into the Encore staff (they have the same Buff icons and effects, much like Elusive for the Rogue). On top of that, it adds all 3 elements at the same time -- and they are affected by Attack Damage % (for instance, my Inquisitor is always hitting 77 across the board when that buff is on for her bonus damage). So, it becomes more valuable that 11 damage (Which is not the same as 21% more Attack, because it doesn't affect your Rune's damage like Attack % does), the 20% Attack Speed increase can be negligible, but it can be bugged at the time of this post. 20% for 8 seconds, with a 24 second cooldown comes out to like 2-4% faster attack speed.

 

Further, none of these things are actually taking up slots on the staff -- it just comes with it naturally. Furthermore -- Lyrium Infused Staff does not accept Staff parts, where as Encore does.

 

Even further, we can get 20% Attack from just the Blade modification which negates the base damage advantage Lyrium had. 

 

Lyrium gets:

 

26 Materials as bonus stats, 10 of which are leather (so no Attack %), or 28% Attack. 

 

Where as Encore gets:

 

24 Materials for bonus stats, all of which are Metal and Cloth, or 42% Attack.

 

A Staff Blade slot, or 20% more Attack,

 

A Staff Grip slot, or 16% more Attack.

 

So, -11 Base damage and 50% more Attack in terms of raw damage. Not including 3 bonus hits about every 4 seconds for X= (Whatever calcuation actually generates this number), and a micro Haste every 24 seconds.

[actionhero112]

In general if the damage formula is correct, you want to crit as often as possible as crit has a multiplicative effect with attack. 

 

So in general let's say you had 40 % crit damage, 50% attack and 77 base damage. If it was equal and you crit 100% of the time, you'd think this would be an equal modifier to 90% attack flat with 77 base staff damage. (40 + 50 = 90) 

 

But the answer is actually favors crit because.

 

77 * 1.9 = 146.3

 

(77 * 1.5 * 1.4)= 161.7

 

WotL is the best staff in the game. 

 

There is probably some way to game this to come up with a formula that balances attack, crit chance and crit damage that they provide the most benefit, but that's way too much work to do for a video game. 

[Evelynne]

In general if the damage formula is correct, you want to crit as often as possible as crit has a multiplicative effect with attack. 

 

So in general let's say you had 40 % crit damage, 50% attack and 77 base damage. If it was equal and you crit 100% of the time, you'd think this would be an equal modifier to 90% attack flat with 77 base staff damage. (40 + 50 = 90) 

 

But the answer is actually favors crit because.

 

77 * 1.9 = 146.3

 

(77 * 1.5 * 1.4)= 161.7

 

WotL is the best staff in the game. 

 

There is probably some way to game this to come up with a formula that balances attack, crit chance and crit damage that they provide the most benefit, but that's way too much work to do for a video game. 

 

Also gotta factor in that Mark of the Riff can crit and is affected by Attack %~ :3

[actionhero112]

Also gotta factor in that Mark of the Riff can crit and is affected by Attack %~ :3

 

You can get mark of the riff through a support mage. Shouldn't be a factor.

[Evelynne]

You can get mark of the riff through a support mage. Shouldn't be a factor.

Encore gives:

 

Mark of the Riff

Battle of the Bands

Sing-a-long

[Bigdawg13]

From weapon damage equation

Assume 80 vs 91 base damage with 50% attack power

(80+11)(1+0.5)=80(1+0.5+A), A=~21%

So yes it is the SAME.

[actionhero112]

Encore gives:

 

Mark of the Riff

Battle of the Bands

Sing-a-long

 

Yeah but you can only have one of those buffs active at once, which means you don't get any benefit from stacking encores. 1 encore is pretty much as effective as 4 encores in terms of its special effects. 

 

Even then I would be hesitant to say if it was worth the multiplicative effect of high crit chance/damage.

 

I would say it requires more testing to say what staff is the best, purely from a stat's standpoint.  

[Evelynne]

Yeah but you can only have one of those buffs active at once, which means you don't get any benefit from stacking encores. 

 

Even then I would be hesitant to say if it was worth the multiplicative effect of high crit chance/damage. 

 

Actually, you do get benefit, as a second Encore is able to put up different buff at the same time (they of course, will overwrite when they proc the same buff). The real question is, does Mark of the Riff's bonus damage count towards our CD reduction passives (Gathering Storm or Clean Burn).

 

 

From weapon damage equation

Assume 80 vs 91 base damage with 50% attack power

(80+11)(1+0.5)=80(1+0.5+A), A=~21%

So yes it is the SAME.

 

Lyrium wasn't capable of 50% Attack power, only 28%, so you've got that wrong. 50% is the attack bonus that Encore has OVER Lyrium. So the equation is more like this.

 

(80)(1+.21)= 96.8 | (91)(1+0) = 91

 

Not the same thing, but back to the raw damage.

 

(91)(1+0.28)= 116.48

 

versus

 

(80)(1+0.78)= 142.40

[Bigdawg13]

Actually, you do get benefit, as a second Encore is able to put up different buff at the same time (they of course, will overwrite when they proc the same buff). The real question is, does Mark of the Riff's bonus damage count towards our CD reduction passives (Gathering Storm or Clean Burn).



Lyrium wasn't capable of 50% Attack power, only 28%, so you've got that wrong. 50% is the attack bonus that Encore has OVER Lyrium. So the equation is more like this.

(80)(1+.21)= 96.8 | (91)(1+0) = 91

Not the same thing, but back to the raw damage.

(91)(1+0.28)= 116.48

versus

(80)(1+0.78)= 142.40

*sigh*

It was an example only with total random numbers intended to show that base damage is equivalent to quite a bit of attack power. And we're talking total here, not just what is from the weapon. The equivalence only increases. For example attack power of 10% would have 11 base damage be equal to 15%. Or if your "total" attack power was 75% then 11 base damage would be like adding 25% attack power.

[stop_him]

Since I am unable to attain the elusive Hilted Staff Grip, I don't think I am able to make the "ultimate staff of power." So, I just slam stuff together and hope it works out. 

[Evelynne]

*sigh*

It was an example only with total random numbers intended to show that base damage is equivalent to quite a bit of attack power. And we're talking total here, not just what is from the weapon. The equivalence only increases. For example attack power of 10% would have 11 base damage be equal to 15%. Or if your "total" attack power was 75% then 11 base damage would be like adding 25% attack power.

 

Except its not, since Attack Power affects things that Weapon Base damage does not. If they were the same, then Attack would simply add weapon damage. 

 

The % difference between base damages you're looking for is 13.75%

[actionhero112]

Actually, you do get benefit, as a second Encore is able to put up different buff at the same time (they of course, will overwrite when they proc the same buff). The real question is, does Mark of the Riff's bonus damage count towards our CD reduction passives (Gathering Storm or Clean Burn).

 

 

It's like rune damage (so it doesn't work into those passives) and it's numbers are comparable  ~200 - 400 per hit endgame. Because of the multiplicative effect of critting, and wrath of the lovias giving the highest crit chance out of any staff in the game, it has the highest possible modifier and thus is the best staff in the game. 

 

Which means it's the best for maximizing your damage. 200 - 400 damage doesn't really matter when the difference between critting and not critting can mean thousands. 

EDIT; for a non ring of doubt built ofc.

[Bigdawg13]

Except its not, since Attack Power affects things that Weapon Base damage does not. If they were the same, then Attack would simply add weapon damage.

The % difference between base damages you're looking for is 13.75%

Based on the damage equation (which applies to all attacks) there is an equivalence. Weapon damage modification occurs before multipliers. This is what makes Vitaars so good for mages and DW rogues.

 

*EDIT*

 

From my sig's links, the damage equation given by the Documentation for Combat Mechanics is:

 

final_damage = (base_damage * rand(0.95 to 1.05) - armor * (1 - armor_penetration)) * (ability_multiplier) * (1 + critical_damage_bonus + flanking_bonus) * (1 + attack_bonus + damage_multiplier + type_bonus) * (1 - magic_resistance)

 

For simplicity, let's ignore flanking, assume a non-crit, no damage multiplier or type bonus, armor, or resistance.  Oh, and assume the random value is 1.0.

 

That leaves

 

final_damage = base_damage * ability_multiplier * (1 + attack_bonus)

 

So, imagine you are a mage with a spell that does 300% weapon damage.  Assume you have 10% attack power and a weapon with base damage of 50.  Final damage should be 50 * 3 * (1+0.1) = 165. 

 

Now, for this simple example, let's assume you find another staff but it has 55 base damage.  Now your damage would be 55 * 3 * (1+0.1) = 181.5. 

 

For the purpose of driving this home, perhaps you had another staff with 50 base damage, but provided an extra 11% attack power.  How much damage would it do?  50 * 3 * (1+0.21) = 181.5

 

Wowzers!!!!  The damage is the same.  So basically the extra 5 base damage was equivalent to adding on 11% attack power.

[Evelynne]

Still makes Encore the superior weapon xD