57 réponses à ce sujet

[Uirebhiril]

When my Inquisitor or another PC goes on about destroying the world then yes, until then there is nothing wrong about executing mad people who want to start a war.

 

Certainly. And going back to it, Solas wanted to overpower those that were enslaving and harming innocents. He succeeded, but with some particular consequences as a result. Now we wish to stop or redeem him, and in doing so are just as likely to become what he is to do so. I think that is in great part the lesson the game is giving us. Like Wren said, it's not black and white, and like Weekes said, it's more complicated than that. Trying to answer it in linear fashion will only make us into what we seek to stop. I find that very intriguing.

[jedidotflow]

Why kill him when we can just tie him to a tree for all eternity while Sera practices her bow skills on him?

 

Again?

[Boost32]

Certainly. And going back to it, Solas wanted to overpower those that were enslaving and harming innocents. He succeeded, but with some particular consequences as a result. Now we wish to stop or redeem him, and in doing so are just as likely to become what he is to do so. I think that is in great part the lesson the game is giving us. Like Wren said, it's not black and white, and like Weekes said, it's more complicated than that. Trying to answer it in linear fashion will only make us into what we seek to stop. I find that very intriguing.

How its complicated? He want to kill everyone and comitted several crimes to achieve his goal, he is not a misunderstood guy and deserves to pay for what he did.
If he is not stopped, everyone is going to die.

[Wren]

How its complicated? He want to kill everyone and comitted several crimes to achieve his goal, he is not a misunderstood guy and deserves to pay for what he did.
If he is not stopped, everyone is going to die.

I suppose it may not seem complicated to those who aren't familiar with subtext, plot, symbolism or foreshadowing in a multi layered story line.  It's why most former DMs write for sophisticated RPGs such as this one and not for more FPS style "shoot 'em up and kill the bad guys" type of games. 

To put it into proper context, even the Inquisitor could seem like a murderer committing crimes for their own agenda depending on what faction you were to ask.  For instance, the Qunari you kill in Trespasser.  Those guys are just trying to promote, protect and preserve their own world, just as the Inquisition is, and just like the Chantry are, The Venatori are, and just like Solas is.

Everything.. Everything is subjective.

[panamakira]

Even if he brings them back, he will be alone.  I think that is the interesting thing about him.  Solas has realized that he will ALWAYS be 'alone'.  Friends, elves, even a lover...he will always be 'alone' because his quest and guilt take precedence.  He is...like a combination of Ozymandius and Dr. Manhattan.  He forces himself to see the faces of the people he is going to be responsible for...meaning their deaths, and yet is utterly detached from even his own kind.  By the end, he is an immensely powerful being, the like which hasn't been seen in Thedas since the time of Arlathan.  His friend/mother figure is now 'dead' (I've always thought there was this parent/child relationship between Fen'Harel and Mythal since the reveal), and the only other true friend (or romantic interest) has now been utterly betrayed by him.  HE is alone because he has chosen to be alone...something that he hates more than anything else.  He is forcing himself into this self-imposed isolation so that he can complete this quest of his while aching for some form of contact.  

 

By the way, when you think about it, if he romanced Lavellan, the situation is WORSE.  How so?  As an enemy, he doesn't even change tack.  Simply moves forward with his plans.  An Inquisitor that is his friend, he holds out some small modicum of hope that he is wrong.  Lavellan?  He gives up.  He removes the Anchor, and walks away, saying 'I will never forget you.'  He just forced himself to walk away because she will interfere with his quest.  He openly states that his path will be the path of death.  It tears him apart.  Now?  Now that he broke the heart of the woman he loves; betraying her in the most personal, intimate way, and severing his connection to her in not just an emotional, but PHYSICAL way...Solas has NOTHING to lose now.  Hope is gone.  ALL he has, is his quest.  Even though in the slides, it appears he MAY be watching her from a distance, he is only punishing himself and using that anguish to move forward.  Solas has nothing left except his plan.  If he is willing to let the woman he loves die from a distance when he could save her from this tragedy (he even refuses to allow her to come WITH him), then he IS lost.  Heartbroken, alone and without any fear of loss...yeah, THAT is scary...better to have loved and lost?  NOT THIS TIME!

I agree with everything you said and I just want to say that....

everything is pain. 

[Boost32]

I suppose it may not seem complicated to those who aren't familiar with subtext, plot, symbolism or foreshadowing in a multi layered story line.  It's why most former DMs write for sophisticated RPGs such as this one and not for more FPS style "shoot 'em up and kill the bad guys" type of games. 
To put it into proper context, even the Inquisitor could seem like a murderer committing crimes for their own agenda depending on what faction you were to ask.  For instance, the Qunari you kill in Trespasser.  Those guys are just trying to promote, protect and preserve their own world, just as the Inquisition is, and just like the Chantry are, The Venatori are, and just like Solas is.
Everything.. Everything is subjective.

Please, spare me of that BS. "I'm way more sophisticated than you, you cant understand it" lol.
This is not what we were talking about, we were talking about his plans. His plans arent complex, there is no way for your Inquisitor to support him, in the end the Inquisitor will oppose Solas the difference is the approach, they either will talking him down at any cost or try to save him if they can.
You can call him a complex character who cannot be classified into the black-white morality, I will even agree, but saying his plans is complex and I dont understand is completely BS.

[Wren]

Please, spare me of that BS. "I'm way more sophisticated than you, you cant understand it" lol.
This is not what we were talking about, we were talking about his plans. His plans arent complex, there is no way for your Inquisitor to support him, in the end the Inquisitor will oppose Solas the difference is the approach, they either will talking him down at any cost or try to save him if they can.
You can call him a complex character who cannot be classified into the black-white morality, I will even agree, but saying his plans is complex and I dont understand is completely BS.

But plans are made (plotlines) because of character motivation which is exactly what we are talking about, here.  I was not implying that you are unsophisticated, but rather, the people who write RPG's like this are used to a more sophisticated form of storytelling than the average game and are writing more nuanced characters than people are used to in gaming, so it's not outrageous to take into consideration that the plan Solas has may be more complicated than we think it is.  

[Boost32]

But plans are made (plotlines) because of character motivation which is exactly what we are talking about, here.  I was not implying that you are unsophisticated, but rather, the people who write RPG's like this are used to a more sophisticated form of storytelling than the average game and are writing more nuanced characters than people are used to in gaming, so it's not outrageous to take into consideration that the plan Solas has may be more complicated than we think it is.

Ok, then explain to me how its more complicated than him killing everyone who is not an Ancient Elf and trying to restore what once was while trying to nulify the threath of the Evanuris.

[Wren]

Ok, then explain to me how its more complicated than him killing everyone who is not an Ancient Elf and trying to restore what once was while trying to nulify the threath of the Evanuris.

There are a million others threads devoted to that very topic that you or I could join in on and I think it's a very divided subject, so it's unnecessary to hash it out here, ad nauseum. 

This thread is more about speculating about why Solas has a fear of dying alone. Perhaps you have something to add in that regard?  I'd be interested to hear your opinion.

[sniper_arrow]

I have the feeling that Solavellan shippers won't take kindly to that statement.

 

It'll be more funnier if Solas will have a hand (directly or indirectly) in Lavellan's potential death in the next game.

[Darkstarr11]

It'll be more funnier if Solas will have a hand (directly or indirectly) in Lavellan's potential death in the next game.

 

This IS Bioware, ya know.  It ISN'T out of the realm of possibilities... 

[Uirebhiril]

It'll be more funnier if Solas will have a hand (directly or indirectly) in Lavellan's potential death in the next game.

 

Oh, those of us who have characters that romanced him have considered that and many other possibilities. Apocalypse boyfriend offers a lot for discussion and theorycrafting. It's delicious.

 

I know some folks would love to think of Solasmancers as heartbroken girls huddled in a corner and crying mindlessly, but hell naw. We're riding this to the end, waving our flags of glory and telling Solas to bring it.

[ModernAcademic]

DA 4 scene. Inquisitor is betrayed by Solas...again.

Inquisitor is dying in Solas' arms. Sappy love scene follows:

 

'Why, Solas?' 

 

'I'm so sorry, my love, but you must understand. It was only your death that would enable me to help the elves recover all that was once lost. It breaks my heart to do it. Believe me, if there were any other way, I would do it. But fret not. They will become once again the mighty people they were.'

 

And some of the Solasmancers will still love him after this. And think his actions are right(eous). Elven glory and all that ****.

Now imagine some of these people going through a relationship like this IRL. It must be some pathological attraction to liars and abusive partners, because Jesus...

[Uirebhiril]

 

And some of the Solasmancers will still love him after this. And think his actions are right(eous). Elven glory and all that ****.

Now imagine som of these people going through a relationship like this IRL. It must be some pathological attraction to liars and abusive partners, because Jesus...

 

Shockingly, some people are able to separate themselves from a video game character even if they allow themselves to be drawn into the narrative -- which is kind of the point of participating in a story. Just as shockingly, people can like a character and the conflict they bring without somehow being broken souls in real life or agreeing with what a particular character might be doing.

[Ellawynn]

Ok, then explain to me how its more complicated than him killing everyone who is not an Ancient Elf and trying to restore what once was while trying to nulify the threath of the Evanuris.

Well, first of all, you said that he wants to kill everyone. He doesn't, for starters. He wants to bring down the Veil and restore the elven people. He acknowledges a lot of people will die as a result of this, and he finds that an acceptable price. But he doesn't want to kill them. That's neither his goal nor his desire, just the unfortunate circumstance. So already, it's more complicated than "kill everyone who isn't an ancient elf."

 

Like, it baffles me that people are running around calling him elf-Hitler and saying he wants to wipe out humanity. He never expresses this desire. He never says he wants genocide. He even acknowledges his plan isn't ideal, but that "sometimes all you have are terrible choices." So, yes, reducing him and his motivations to "wants to kill everyone who's not an ancient elf" is somewhat simplifying him, his motivations, and his plan. It's reducing everything to black and white.

[Fredward]

If he doesn't wanna die alone he should maybe stop killing everything.

[Ellawynn]

DA 4 scene. Inquisitor is betrayed by Solas...again.

Inquisitor is dying in Solas' arms. Sappy love scene follows:

 

'Why, Solas?' 

 

'I'm so sorry, my love, but you must understand. It was only your death that would enable me to help the elves recover all that was once lost. It breaks my heart to do it. Believe me, if there were any other way, I would do it. But fret not. They will become once again the mighty people they were.'

 

And some of the Solasmancers will still love him after this. And think his actions are right(eous). Elven glory and all that ****.

Now imagine some of these people going through a relationship like this IRL. It must be some pathological attraction to liars and abusive partners, because Jesus...

 

Yeah, you know, it's possible to like a romance because of the drama involved. If I wanted a love story with a perfectly healthy relationship dynamic and no pain at all I'd romance Cullen. He's definitely the safer, healthier bet.

 

But, this is fiction, and that angst is delicious. As a matter of fact, I might even like the character more if he does that. I've gotten fed up with the "Love is the most important thing of all" narrative. Somethings just matter more than getting funky with your girlfriend, and I'm thrilled to find a character who examines that idea and values something over his personal love life.

 

Now, ideally that something wouldn't be the destruction of the world as we know it, but eh, you gotta compromise.

[sniper_arrow]

Oh, those of us who have characters that romanced him have considered that and many other possibilities. Apocalypse boyfriend offers a lot for discussion and theorycrafting. It's delicious.

 

I know some folks would love to think of Solasmancers as heartbroken girls huddled in a corner and crying mindlessly, but hell naw. We're riding this to the end, waving our flags of glory and telling Solas to bring it.

 

Kind of reminds me of those who are obsessed with Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

You can discuss this with Solas actually. I think you need low approval.

 

 

Jump to 04:00

 

And the truth is that Solas is right. The elves can't be helped as things are now. And even if they moved to a new land to start over, the humans or qunari wouldn't tolerate them for long. And yet another war for dominance will start.

4:12 lol. Not unless we collapse the Veil...if only we had known...

[Uirebhiril]

Kind of reminds me of those who are obsessed with Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey.

 

The major difference being in one, you get porn without plot. Here we get plot without porn.

[sniper_arrow]

The major difference being in one, you get porn without plot. Here we get plot without porn.

 

True, but I will admit Solavellan is a better love story than those two combined.

[Darkstarr11]

DA 4 scene. Inquisitor is betrayed by Solas...again.

Inquisitor is dying in Solas' arms. Sappy love scene follows:

 

'Why, Solas?' 

 

'I'm so sorry, my love, but you must understand. It was only your death that would enable me to help the elves recover all that was once lost. It breaks my heart to do it. Believe me, if there were any other way, I would do it. But fret not. They will become once again the mighty people they were.'

 

And some of the Solasmancers will still love him after this. And think his actions are right(eous). Elven glory and all that ****.

Now imagine some of these people going through a relationship like this IRL. It must be some pathological attraction to liars and abusive partners, because Jesus...

 

I was thinking something more along the lines of infamous, and Trish's death on the evil karma path.  

 

 

If Lavellan dies in his arms, he MIGHT take responsibility...OR he might use it to refocus his efforts on ripping apart the Veil will a renewed focus.  Suffer as I have suffered, right?  WOULD he take responsibility, or would he blame the world?  Either way, I doubt he'd stop.  Even IF Lavellan cursed him with her last breath...

[EBDerevko]

Am I the only one who thinks Solas is choosing this journey alone because he is attempting to punish himself for his own crimes? He may fear dying alone, but he seems to be forcing himself to pursue this pain by choice. 

 

Shared. I also feel a lot of self-loathing coming from Solas, way beyond his regrets, to the point that it seems he's punishing himself constantly. Even if he "fixed" everything the way he intends, I don't think that behavior would stop there. (There's a point in which I can even find some parallels with Anders in DA2.)

 

I think the Trespasser ending provided a hint that the Solas we'll meet in the future release definitely won't be the same Solas we met in DA:I.

Regardless of the Inquisitor's relationship with him, he always emphasizes his voluntary final detachment with anyone that belongs to the current DA world, mostly to make it easy for him to burn everything to the ground and not feel so bad about it. He dehumanizes himself for others, and dehumanizes others for himself, so none of the parts will think of the other as anything but monsters (he'd be tricking himself and others with simple extremes, while reality is much more complex and grey than that, and he knows it.)

 

I hope they make a memorable anti-villain out of him, to the point of making him the antithesis of villains like Corypheus, that want endless power and godhood just because it seems cool to rule and enslave everyone, because evil logic.

Instead, Solas seems far more realistic than the average "villain". I think DA:I was our chance to meet a warmer Solas, while we'll possibly have a radically different view in the next game. (I can't wait!)

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Shared. I also feel a lot of self-loathing coming from Solas, way beyond his regrets, to the point that it seems he's punishing himself constantly. Even if he "fixed" everything the way he intends, I don't think that behavior would stop there. (There's a point in which I can even find some parallels with Anders in DA2.)

 

I think the Trespasser ending provided a hint that the Solas we'll meet in the future release definitely won't be the same Solas we met in DA:I.

Regardless of the Inquisitor's relationship with him, he always emphasizes his voluntary final detachment with anyone that belongs to the current DA world, mostly to make it easy for him to burn everything to the ground and not feel so bad about it. He dehumanizes himself for others, and dehumanizes others for himself, so none of the parts will think of the other as anything but monsters (he'd be tricking himself and others with simple extremes, while reality is much more complex and grey than that, and he knows it.)

 

I hope they make a memorable anti-villain out of him, to the point of making him the antithesis of villains like Corypheus, that want endless power and godhood just because it seems cool to rule and enslave everyone, because evil logic.

Instead, Solas seems far more realistic than the average "villain". I think DA:I was our chance to meet a warmer Solas, while we'll possibly have a radically different view in the next game. (I can't wait!)

There will be no happy ending.