38 réponses à ce sujet

[TobiTobsen]

 
This talk of petrification reminds me of a mysterious little scene on the Storm Coast. In the Red Templar area in the southwest, there's a room with three petrified figures - an elf and two humans. They're quite clearly not statues - the poses all suggest they were captured in media res. You can see them here:

https://www.youtube/...Y_uBVA?t=15m53s

EDIT: I'm sorry, I can't work out how to embed the video. I've tried all kinds of things and am just getting garbled code.

 

Saw those statues too. One dude looks like he was petrified while grabbing a bottle as a weapon. I wonder what was going on there.

[Hydwn]

Saw those statues too. One dude looks like he was petrified while grabbing a bottle as a weapon. I wonder what was going on there.

 

I *think* those statues are the same as the ones in Chateau Haine, from the "Pirates and their Curses" sidequest detailed here.  In that, the three pirates have been cursed by one pirate captain, and can only be freed by another pirate captain with a magic dagger.  Eleni Zinovia also suggests that there is a really specific circumstance in which she can be freed.  I wonder if petrification always comes with a specific countercurse?

 

If so, then maybe the possibility of de-stonifying Eleni Zinovia isn't as farfetched as it seems.

 

(Sadly, there's no option to specify if you did that sidequest in the keep, so I figure the statues are always at the Storm Coast.  It would be funny if they were missing on those playthroughs.)

[DanAxe]

Sorry if this been mentioned before, but what about the Stone Brothers in Awakening? They were petrified by a Magister. I can't recall that quest good enough to remember if there's any hint as to the whole petrification thing. Maybe someone who played that recently can shed some light?

 

http://dragonage.wik...others_of_Stone

[phishface]

This is very tangential, but the name Zinovia is a form of Zenobia (they're both Greek, meaning 'Life of Zeus').

 

Zenobia was a famous warrior queen of Palmyra. There's a well-known statue of her (below) by Harriet Hosmer called "Zenobia in Chains", depicting her after she'd been captured by Rome. Even more tangentially, she was the subject of one of the stories in The Monk's Tale by Chaucer.

 

[Hydwn]

Sorry if this been mentioned before, but what about the Stone Brothers in Awakening? They were petrified by a Magister. I can't recall that quest good enough to remember if there's any hint as to the whole petrification thing. Maybe someone who played that recently can shed some light?

 

http://dragonage.wik...others_of_Stone

 

Those two had no solutions to their problem.  One just wanted to rest for all eternity, the other wanted revenge.  Though it is noteworthy that the death of the caster doesn't automatically reverse, but in most cases, something can.  Maybe there was a solution for the two brothers they didn't know about?

Hessarian's father's death didn't cure Eleni Zinovia either.  Hessarian was a pretty powerful mage, and rules a nation of powerful mages.  I suspect he would not have left his mother in that state if he could have reversed it, so it's likely not just a matter of someone with enough magic overpowering it.

 

Although now that I think about, I wonder if Hessarian always had access to her?  His home was destroyed by his father's enemies, and he was left with nothing.  Maybe they carted her away then too?  

[Hydwn]

This is very tangential, but the name Zinovia is a form of Zenobia (they're both Greek, meaning 'Life of Zeus').

 

Zenobia was a famous warrior queen of Palmyra. There's a well-known statue of her (below) by Harriet Hosmer called "Zenobia in Chains", depicting her after she'd been captured by Rome. Even more tangentially, she was the subject of one of the stories in The Monk's Tale by Chaucer.

 

 

I knew that actually.  I wasn't sure how that fit, though the statue that's a model for Eleni Zinovia is poised like a warrior with a spear.  If her husband petrified her, maybe she knew he was coming and was determined to fight back?

[Dai Grepher]

 
This talk of petrification reminds me of a mysterious little scene on the Storm Coast. In the Red Templar area in the southwest, there's a room with three petrified figures - an elf and two humans. They're quite clearly not statues - the poses all suggest they were captured in media res. You can see them here:

https://www.youtube/...Y_uBVA?t=15m53s

EDIT: I'm sorry, I can't work out how to embed the video. I've tried all kinds of things and am just getting garbled code.

 

They just reused the models from DA2. It was just a dumb Easter egg.
 

[Dai Grepher]

Hessarian's father's death didn't cure Eleni Zinovia either.  Hessarian was a pretty powerful mage, and rules a nation of powerful mages.  I suspect he would not have left his mother in that state if he could have reversed it, so it's likely not just a matter of someone with enough magic overpowering it.

 

Although now that I think about, I wonder if Hessarian always had access to her?  His home was destroyed by his father's enemies, and he was left with nothing.  Maybe they carted her away then too?  

 

Right, he couldn't free her. But she might not want to be freed until the right time. It's also possible that she is like Ameriden, and soon after she is released, she will crumble to dust. In any case, it's probably not about power. It's probably about the intricacies of the spell. It might even have to do with going into the Fade to unravel the spell at the core.

 

Maybe. 

 

 

[Dai Grepher]

I knew that actually.  I wasn't sure how that fit, though the statue that's a model for Eleni Zinovia is poised like a warrior with a spear.  If her husband petrified her, maybe she knew he was coming and was determined to fight back?

 

I think the developers just grabbed some generic Tevinter statue graphic and use that. It's the same one as the peaceful Avvar brother. So if Eleni appears in the next game, I'm sure they will update her statue's appearance.

[solomon.kosin]

In DAO: Awakening there were those two Brothers of Stone in Wending Woods. 

They are of stone but they can talk ans tell you they are cursed Avvar.

 

http://dragonage.wik...others_of_Stone

[Hydwn]

Right, he couldn't free her. But she might not want to be freed until the right time. It's also possible that she is like Ameriden, and soon after she is released, she will crumble to dust. In any case, it's probably not about power. It's probably about the intricacies of the spell. It might even have to do with going into the Fade to unravel the spell at the core.

 

Maybe. 

 

That would make a lot of sense.  I haven't even considered the Ameridan issue - she might be mortal again only for moments.  Being quasi-tranquil now, she can probably take the long centuries petrified in stride, and foresees a roll for herself.

 

I keep wondering about whether her son ever consulted her for her visions of the future, but I also wonder who else did.  There's no hint anyone from the circle tower ever consulted her.  Irving might have seen Uldred's rebellion coming if he had, and his idiot predecessor from the Calling probably never did either.  

 

Someone had to have moved her from the battlements at Hessarian's childhood home, and someone had to bring her to Kinloch Hold in Ferelden.  Was that move made all in one shot?  

 

I checked the timeline.  Tevinter used to hold that area of course (it's why there are Tevinter ruins everywhere) but the order of events is:

1. Eleni Zinovia becomes a statue.
2. Archon Hessarian's home is destroyed.  Statue presumably removed.
3. Andraste's husband Mafereth conquers the south.

Kinloch Hold (the circle tower) had been constructed by the Avvar, taken by the Tevinters, then taken Mafereth and Andraste, then finally made the home of the Circle of Magi.  This means the statue could have moved there for by any one of the three groups:

 

1. It was moved in Hessarian's lifetime before Andraste became historically important.  The Tevinters of that region thought that the lake was sacred to Razikale, the ancient god of mystery.
2. It was moved after Andraste and Mafereth began carving up the Tevinter empire.  It would have been in the care of whatever local lord held the tower.
3. It was imported by the circle of magi, as an important magical object.  Then promptly forgotten, apparently.

Number 1 and number 3 seem more likely than to me, but I wonder if there's any way to narrow down the precise timeframe...?  And why move her?  Did someone want her knowledge, or was someone trying to hide her away far from Tevinter?

 

It's interesting to note that one important figure is associated with Kinloch Hold before the events in the Dragon Age - Calenhad, the great ancestor of Ferelden's kings, had his armour made there.  I wonder if the statue was there for that?

[Dai Grepher]

That would make a lot of sense.  I haven't even considered the Ameridan issue - she might be mortal again only for moments.  Being quasi-tranquil now, she can probably take the long centuries petrified in stride, and foresees a roll for herself.

 

I keep wondering about whether her son ever consulted her for her visions of the future, but I also wonder who else did.  There's no hint anyone from the circle tower ever consulted her.  Irving might have seen Uldred's rebellion coming if he had, and his idiot predecessor from the Calling probably never did either.  

 

Someone had to have moved her from the battlements at Hessarian's childhood home, and someone had to bring her to Kinloch Hold in Ferelden.  Was that move made all in one shot?  

 

I checked the timeline.  Tevinter used to hold that area of course (it's why there are Tevinter ruins everywhere) but the order of events is:

1. Eleni Zinovia becomes a statue.
2. Archon Hessarian's home is destroyed.  Statue presumably removed.
3. Andraste's husband Mafereth conquers the south.

Kinloch Hold (the circle tower) had been constructed by the Avvar, taken by the Tevinters, then taken Mafereth and Andraste, then finally made the home of the Circle of Magi.  This means the statue could have moved there for by any one of the three groups:

 

1. It was moved in Hessarian's lifetime before Andraste became historically important.  The Tevinters of that region thought that the lake was sacred to Razikale, the ancient god of mystery.
2. It was moved after Andraste and Mafereth began carving up the Tevinter empire.  It would have been in the care of whatever local lord held the tower.
3. It was imported by the circle of magi, as an important magical object.  Then promptly forgotten, apparently.

Number 1 and number 3 seem more likely than to me, but I wonder if there's any way to narrow down the precise timeframe...?  And why move her?  Did someone want her knowledge, or was someone trying to hide her away far from Tevinter?

 

It's interesting to note that one important figure is associated with Kinloch Hold before the events in the Dragon Age - Calenhad, the great ancestor of Ferelden's kings, had his armour made there.  I wonder if the statue was there for that?

 

It's good that you've thought this out.

 

It's possible that Eleni was passed around (I know that sounds wrong) among different magisters until the final owner was attacked by templars. Those templars would have then moved any Tevinter artifacts with magical properties to the circle for safe keeping. Eleni, and the mabari statue, were probably among them.

[Hydwn]

It's good that you've thought this out.

 

It's possible that Eleni was passed around (I know that sounds wrong) among different magisters until the final owner was attacked by templars. Those templars would have then moved any Tevinter artifacts with magical properties to the circle for safe keeping. Eleni, and the mabari statue, were probably among them.

 

I think that's the most likely scenario.

 

(I was going to say the mabari statue was likely local, and then I remembered what Fenris said about mabari being originally a Tevinter breed.)

[Hydwn]

Also, we're missing a factor in the timeline - Hessarian's age.  I think it's a given that he was older than Andraste, because she was very young when she found the Maker (19 years old, born in 203 Ancient).  Tevinter abandoned southern Thedas to the barbarians in 184 (when Andraste was 17).  By 180 Ancient, Mafereth and Andraste had solidified their hold on the south and moved north into the Free Marches.  

 

So for Kinloch Hold to have been considered Tevinter territory, it would have to have been moved before 184.  Either it was moved during the First Blight (ended the year Andraste was born in 203) across Blight-infested lands, or in the first few years following the Blight.  If the Tevinters moved it, they had between Hessarian's birth and 184 to do it.

 

So when was Hessarian born?  We don't have that date - or not anywhere I can find.  He died in 125 "after a long and tumultous life."  Long life indeed.  He had Andraste executed in 170, and or 45 years before he died.  How long does it take an orphaned boy who was left with nothing to become the most powerful political leader in the world?  I would guess he was middle-aged by then at least, and so that would have meant dying at 90 or 100.

 

That does give the statue a large window to be moved around - 40 or 50 years - assuming the people who killed his father and destroyed his family's fortunes took the statue as well.  It's also possible that no one recognized its value, and Hessarian had it moved as soon as his fortunes permitted.  

 

What is unlikely is that it was moved to Kinloch Hold right after his death.  Maferath's family would have been running that - Hessarian outlived Maferath by ten years.  I doubt he'd have had it taken to barbarian lands, or his next of kin would.  It seems unlikely anyone would before the circle was founded.

 

So it's probable that either the statue was moved before 184 Ancient, or after 3:87 Towers.  Other dates are possible, but unlikely.  I wonder if there's any way to figure out if it was done sooner or later? 

 

EDIT: So I just realized that if we use the earlier timeline - pre-184-Ancient - then that puts Eleni Zinovia in roughly the same place as Andraste before she had her visions of the Maker.  In fact, the latest possible date is the same year Andraste had her vision of the Maker.  This moves the theorycrafting (and paranoia) up to a whole new level!