211 réponses à ce sujet

[Swordfishtrombone]

I'm doing a playthough again, this time with a Qunari rogue, and starting out, I thought I'd choose the templars this time - since last time I chose the mages. 

 

But I've come to think about it, and I can't see any reason whatsoever why the Inquisitor would go to the templars - at least if she/he visits Redcliffe after Val Royeaux.

 

Given that at that point, the inquisitor only knows that what is happening with the mages is a huge threat that seems to call out for immediate intervention, while the only experience the inquisitor has had with the templars is their leader acting like a pompous a-hole, and seemingly completely shutting out the possibility of helping the Inquisition.

 

So... what sort of logic would allow the inquisitor to ignore the present threat at Redcliffe, and go on a wild goose chase to see if they could persuade the a-hole in charge to join the Inquisition?

 

And yes, I do know why the leader of the templars acted that way, but the inquisitor doesn't, at that point in the game. The only side that's shown any indication of a willingness to help is the mages, and in investigating that interest, the inquisitor finds a pressing threat that seems to demand intervention. 

 

You only get any sort of justification for the templar choice after you've made it, and started Champions of the Just. 

 

IS there any justification, based on the events, for the Inquisitor to reasonably go the templar way?

[Wulfram]

If the Mages are all screwed up and siding with dodgy Tevinter types, then you might want to have some Templars on your side.

[berelinde]

I had one inquisitor who went to Redcliffe and said, "You know what? This is all a mess. Let me get the Breach closed and then I'll deal with the stupid human tricks."

[thats1evildude]

Well, my human Inquisitor came from a fairly religious background and was groomed to actually join the Templars, so he's more inclined to trust the Order than the rebel mages.

[Swordfishtrombone]

^ The justification that the situation in Redcliffe is a mess just doesn't do it for me - it is precisely because it is such a mess it needs to be dealt without delay. The mess, after all, has dangerous elements that are likely to become an immediate threat (time altering magic!), and lead to the fall of the Inquisition. 

 

And for all the inquisitor knows, he/she can always go to the templars after the situation in Redcliffe is defused; the inquisitor doesn't even have to think that they'll end up allying with the mages. Instead he/she can view the mission as an immediate response to deal with an immediate existential threat; a threat that doesn't allow one to gamble on delay. 

[Illyria]

My pro-mage, Templar siding Inquisitor went to the Templars first thinking she could use them against Alexius and help the mages that way (while I know going to one cuts off the other, the characters don't know that).

[Wulfram]

The plan offered to deal with the mess in Redcliffe is seriously sketchy, and relies totally on you trusting Dorian, some guy you just met from Tevinter.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Well, my human Inquisitor came from a fairly religious background and was groomed to actually join the Templars, so he's more inclined to trust the Order than the rebel mages.

 

I can understand that, but that only gives your inquisitor MORE reason to address the situation in Redcliffe first - after all, your character does not know that dealing with the threat of time magic and tevinter at Redcliffe would make it impossible for you to go to the templars afterwards, and ally with them. 

 

On the other hand, NOT dealing with the magical threat immediately, could well end up undoing the Inquisition completely, through the unopposed use of time altering magic. 

[berelinde]

^ The justification that the situation in Redcliffe is a mess just doesn't do it for me - it is precisely because it is such a mess it needs to be dealt without delay. The mess, after all, has dangerous elements that are likely to become an immediate threat (time altering magic!), and lead to the fall of the Inquisition. 

 

And for all the inquisitor knows, he/she can always go to the templars after the situation in Redcliffe is defused; the inquisitor doesn't even have to think that they'll end up allying with the mages. Instead he/she can view the mission as an immediate response to deal with an immediate existential threat; a threat that doesn't allow one to gamble on delay. 

You asked for a RP reason that worked for us, not ones that would work for you.

[Ryzaki]

Yep my girl took one look at "we sided with Tevinter" laughed her ass off inwardly and ran away to the templars after picking up the tranquil dude.

 

She did not want to be anywhere near that powerkeg when the king eventually went back to take his land.

[Swordfishtrombone]

My pro-mage, Templar siding Inquisitor went to the Templars first thinking she could use them against Alexius and help the mages that way (while I know going to one cuts off the other, the characters don't know that).

 

That might work for me, except for the encounter with the templar leader - there was no indication whatsoever that co-operation with the templars would be possible, given the actions and the attitude of their leader. So going to the templars would be a huge gamble, where you MIGHT gain an unwilling ally, forced into it by the military threat of your allies, or might just gain another enemy, while wasting the time you needed to stop the threat at Redcliffe. 

[thats1evildude]

I can understand that, but that only gives your inquisitor MORE reason to address the situation in Redcliffe first - after all, your character does not know that dealing with the threat of time magic and tevinter at Redcliffe would make it impossible for you to go to the templars afterwards, and ally with them.

 

Well, you could just not go to Redcliffe. I went there once, saw what was happening and I loaded an earlier save so I never went to Redcliffe.

[Swordfishtrombone]

You asked for a RP reason that worked for us, not ones that would work for you.

 

Actually, I didn't. I asked "Is there an RP reason", not "Is there an RP reason that worked for you". 

 

Still, glad you found one that worked for you - I just don't find it convincing enough. And I'm TRYING to find a sufficient reason, and am annoyed at the seeming lack of one. 

[Pokemario]

Some of my Inquisitors went to Therinfal instead of Redcliffe Castle because they preferred to weaken the Breach instead of powering up the Anchor and/or thought that one of the rebels was responsible for the disaster at the Conclave.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Well, you could just not go to Redcliffe. I didn't.

 

Yes, this is how I did it in my first playthrough. At THAT point, you might justifiably choose to follow up the Templar angle first, and go to meet the mages later, if (and probably when, given how things had just went at Val Royaux) the templar deal fell through. 

 

But I'm stumped right now - I DID go to Redcliffe, and hadn't really considered the dillemma it would put me in, in lacking an RP reason to go to the templars. 

[Illyria]

That might work for me, except for the encounter with the templar leader - there was no indication whatsoever that co-operation with the templars would be possible, given the actions and the attitude of their leader. So going to the templars would be a huge gamble, where you MIGHT gain an unwilling ally, forced into it by the military threat of your allies, or might just gain another enemy, while wasting the time you needed to stop the threat at Redcliffe. 

 

You do get to meet Ser Barris in that cutscene and he comes off as being pretty level headed.  My Trevelyan figured that even if the talks with the Lord Seeker failed then she could probably talk Ser Barris and men loyal to him into joining her.

[thats1evildude]

Well, the Redcliffe situation is pretty clearly a trap for the Herald of Andraste. As far as you know, there's nothing suspicious going on with the Templars, aside from Lord Seeker Lucius acting a bit odd. You might decide to go to Therinfal so as to avoid the trap.

[Qun00]

It's not that hard. The templars you deal with in Inquisition aren't half as bad as those in DA2.

It boils down to whether you believe in the Circles, and the lack of a concrete alternative already is enough reason.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Some of my Inquisitors went to Therinfal instead of Redcliffe Castle because they preferred to weaken the Breach instead of powering up the Anchor and/or thought that one of the rebels was responsible for the disaster at the Conclave.

 

My Inquisitor is kinda agnostic on who's responsible. The preference of weakening the breach rather than pouring more power to the Anchor is the closest thing I see to a motivation, but after going to Redcliffe, I don't think the Inquisitor is thinking about who to ally with, but rather thinking of the immediate problem; perhaps intending to ally with the templars, if possible, after the fire threatening to consume them all is put out. 

[Swordfishtrombone]

The plan offered to deal with the mess in Redcliffe is seriously sketchy, and relies totally on you trusting Dorian, some guy you just met from Tevinter.

 

Hmm... but do you get to really know that plan before you actually choose the "In Hushed Whispers", and commit to the path? 

 

Without that knowledge, your situation is this: the son of a magister and another Tevinter mage just took what looks like a great risk in speaking to you in secret, revealing the use of time magic. You might find that too incredible to believe, if it weren't for the fact that you've faced such magic already: at the gate to Redcliffe, in the battle closing that breach. That lends credence to what they are saying, and IF what they are saying is true, it is an immediate life-or-death situation for the Inquisition. 

 

On the other hand, from the templar side, all you've received is complete denial, and a display of borderline insanity from their leader. 

 

So go to try and persuade the crazy person and his templars to help, hoping that the immediate threat at Redcillfe will keep, or that the magister's son and the tevinter mage you met were just lying, and the time magic you'd witnessed was just some weird anomaly, nothing too much to worry about..... 

 

OR

 

Investigate and deal with the potential immediate threat at Redcliffe first, and delay the convince-the-crazy-person quest for after the time-altering-magic is no longer a threat?

[robertmarilyn]

The only reason one of my IQs sided with the Templars once was so I could see Cole's intro in that version. Otherwise my IQs always side with the mages because the Lord Seeker did not impress any of them as anyone they wanted anything to do with at all. He didn't want anything to do with them either. Of course, Fiona is all kinds of messed up too but I've never been for mage oppression so my IQs want to try to fix things for the mages even if Fiona appears to have made some bad decisions (understatement). 

[thats1evildude]

OK, here's a reason: realizing that the Redcliffe situation is a trap by Tevinter mages, you go to Therinfal to recruit the templars so they will help with the mages at Redcliffe.

 

You don't KNOW they will disappear, after all.

[Former_Fiend]

In theory the Templars are the safer option for what you need them for; sealing the breach. The mark on your hand was actively killing you just a short time ago; the plan with the mages is to channel more power into that mark, which is a risky proposition to say the least, where as the plan with the templars is to have them suppress the breach so the mark will work at normal power.

 

Aside from that, it's not unreasonable to come to the conclusion that the templars are the safer choice as allies. The high seeker is acting like a bit of a ******, but for the most part they seem to have their act together and are well organized. The mages, however, are in complete disarray. They've sold themselves out to a Tevinter magister and kicked out an Arl from his keep, and in general are in a bit of a sorry state. 

 

The ruthless, pragmatic option is to go with the Templars and let Ferelden clean up it's own mess in regards to the mages.

 

Even if you go into it with the intention of liberating the mages from the Vints and dealing with the Venatori threat, it could still be considered a wise move to recruit the Templars first, because they would be of tremendous value against a Tevinter magister and his followers. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Yes. There's plenty as you can see from the responses.

[Swordfishtrombone]

OK, here's a reason: realizing that the Redcliffe situation is a trap by Tevinter mages, you go to Therinfal to recruit the templars so they will help with the mages at Redcliffe.

 

You don't KNOW they will disappear, after all.

 

Hmm... might just have to go with that, though it does seem a bit weak. That would require that the tevinter magister, his son, and Dorian constructed an elaborate ruse to get you to... what? Come to Redcliffe? But you were there already? What's the purpose of letting the person you intend to trap go, persuading him to possibly return later, and then trap him? Why not trap him immediately when he comes to you the first time, under the impression that he's meeting the grand enchanter at her invitation? 

 

After all, if you engineered the invitation, you could just as easily have prepared the trap for the first encounter, as the second. 

 

So it does seem a bit weak. 

 

I really wish they actually made the decision a little more even - so that going to the templars was possible to justify solidly without having to skip Redcliffe altogether.