69 réponses à ce sujet

[Kirby5413]

So in the new DLC known as Trespasser, we get information of the Elves whereabouts across Thedas and how many of them are joining Fen'Harel to restore their old world.

 

So that pretty much means that they will be the primary antagonists in Dragon Age 4. Although I doubt all of the Elves will be joining Fen'Harel, especially ones in particular such as Zevran and Sera.

 

I did my play through of Trespasser with Sera and whenever the major plot points on Fen'Harel, the ancient elves and the Eluvians came up, even she was a little embarrassed by what was going on there and said that it was a long time ago and that they (Elves) should move on from the past. 

 

That said, it's safe to assume that elves like Sera and Zevran, whose mother was Dalish will have this mindset on the matter.

 

But that leads to the questions, what will become of the Elves who decide not to join Fen'Harel in Dragon Age 4? Will they be shunned or worse? Will we see the brink of a second genocide against them even after Fen'Harel is defeated? Or will they be spared? What fate do you think awaits the Elves that decided not to join Fen'Harel?

 

As for the Elf-Blooded Humans, now there are many of them who are raised by their Elven mothers. Not all of them are abandoned, in fact many of them reside in Elven Alienages across Thedas. Michel de Cheven was one of these Elf-Blooded humans in particular who was raised by his Elven mother until her death.

 

This leads to the next three questions:

 

What will become of the Elf-Blooded children who are currently being raised by their Elven mothers? Will they be abandoned or will they be going along with Elven parents? Will they face even heavier discrimination in Dragon Age 4 due to the Elves now being the enemies?

 

Also, will the Elf-Blooded Humans who are adults be discriminated as well by both sides, Humans and Elves now that the tension between the two is going to be higher than ever? Will they suffer an even worse fate than that of the Elves as it stands?

 

Tell me your thoughts in the comments below.

[Silent X]

Well, I'm completely unqualified to actually answer your questions, but they are very good questions. I think the epilogue slide specifically says that it's elf servants who are disappearing? Even so, I wouldn't expect that to mean every single elf servant in Thedas, but a large enough proportion that it's an obvious trend. I would think Fen'Harel would have better luck recruiting amongst the most down-trodden of elves living in human society, as they're more directly oppressed and more likely to feel they have nothing to lose. I have to wonder if his agents know that his plan, if successful, will also kill them and everyone they know and love. I can believe a handful are so spiteful and so without hope that they'd give their own lives to create a world ruled by elves, but I would think that even most poor and unhappy elves probably don't want to see their loved ones killed and everything they know utterly destroyed. If they've gone on living this long, most of them have presumably found something to live for in the crummy world they've already got.

 

I think Fen'Harel will probably not get so many converts among the Dalish. A few here and there, sure, but generally the Dalish aren't inclined to trust the Dread Wolf. I hope my elf Inquisitor might be remembered as a voice of reason and evidence that not all elves are crazy and the enemy of everyone else.

 

I hadn't gotten as far as thinking about internal conflict among elves, but you raise a very good point. Those for and against Fen'Harel might very well come to blows, either openly or cloak-and-dagger style. And large numbers of elves flocking to his banner is likely to fuel more fear and hatred of elves among other races.

 

Elf-blooded children? I'd hope in most cases their elven parents would keep them and not be inclined to join Fen'Harel anyway, assuming those children were conceived consensually. If an elf had already loved a human, I'd hope they wouldn't go for his whole plan of killing everyone but the ancient elves. But a few might. Sometimes people under stress grab onto the first thing that sounds like a promise of change, even if it's really unwise.

[NeverlandHunter]

The elf-blooded humans have always had me super curious. They might look human, but one of their parents is an elf. Wouldn't that mean some things would be different for them? The elves see the Crossroads in color, would an elf-blooded human?

 

Uh sorry, just adding more questions. You are asking a lot of good questions, can't wait for the theorists to comment! I'm not creative enough to think up any good answers!

[ModernAcademic]

Alistair is also the son of an elven woman, Fiona, though he's not aware of that truth. If he is King of Ferelden, what could it mean for him?

[GoldenGail3]

Alistair is also the son of an elven woman, Fiona, though he's not aware of that truth. If he is King of Ferelden, what could it mean for him?

Alistair isn't a Mage, so I assume he's fine (I don't wish to think of Alistair as anything but fine.)

[Shari'El]

The elf-blooded humans have always had me super curious. They might look human, but one of their parents is an elf. Wouldn't that mean some things would be different for them? The elves see the Crossroads in color, would an elf-blooded human?

 

Uh sorry, just adding more questions. You are asking a lot of good questions, can't wait for the theorists to comment! I'm not creative enough to think up any god answers!

 

Elf-blooded is just a legal distinction

https://twitter.com/...182580909092864

Elf + Non-elf = !Elf

[Kirby5413]

Well, I'm completely unqualified to actually answer your questions, but they are very good questions. I think the epilogue slide specifically says that it's elf servants who are disappearing? Even so, I wouldn't expect that to mean every single elf servant in Thedas, but a large enough proportion that it's an obvious trend. I would think Fen'Harel would have better luck recruiting amongst the most down-trodden of elves living in human society, as they're more directly oppressed and more likely to feel they have nothing to lose. I have to wonder if his agents know that his plan, if successful, will also kill them and everyone they know and love. I can believe a handful are so spiteful and so without hope that they'd give their own lives to create a world ruled by elves, but I would think that even most poor and unhappy elves probably don't want to see their loved ones killed and everything they know utterly destroyed. If they've gone on living this long, most of them have presumably found something to live for in the crummy world they've already got.

 

I think Fen'Harel will probably not get so many converts among the Dalish. A few here and there, sure, but generally the Dalish aren't inclined to trust the Dread Wolf. I hope my elf Inquisitor might be remembered as a voice of reason and evidence that not all elves are crazy and the enemy of everyone else.

 

I hadn't gotten as far as thinking about internal conflict among elves, but you raise a very good point. Those for and against Fen'Harel might very well come to blows, either openly or cloak-and-dagger style. And large numbers of elves flocking to his banner is likely to fuel more fear and hatred of elves among other races.

 

Elf-blooded children? I'd hope in most cases their elven parents would keep them and not be inclined to join Fen'Harel anyway, assuming those children were conceived consensually. If an elf had already loved a human, I'd hope they wouldn't go for his whole plan of killing everyone but the ancient elves. But a few might. Sometimes people under stress grab onto the first thing that sounds like a promise of change, even if it's really unwise.

 

I agree with your post! Especially with the Elf-blooded children! Afterall, they will without a doubt be a target. As for the adult Elf-Blooded Humans such as Alistair and Michel, they could be in just as much danger as the Elves who decide not to join Fen'Harel just because of their lineage. 

[Ardent Blossom]

Hmmm...I think how elves are treated might rely partially on who is Divine in your game. My inspired Leliana has welcomed elves into the chantry and would likely use her influence to protect innocent elves. As for the treatment of the elf-blooded...they are physically human, so it's largely a non-issue. They can pass as elf-bloodless unless someone goes digging up their past. If Alistair walks into a Val Royeaux cheese shop no one there would know to treat him like scum unless they stopped and asked him for his pedigree before selling him brie. Even then, he wouldn't know to tell them he's elf-blooded. Also there could theoretically be thousands of elf-blooded humans with human mothers and elven fathers, and no one would ever know. Maybe most people in Thedas have a drop or two of elf blood in them and don't have a clue...drwarves and qunari included.

 

Elves are already enslaved and slandered, raped and murdered. I wonder how much worse it could get in only a few years' time. People in Thedas who prejudge elves will keep on prejudging them, and people who judge elves as individuals will do the same. Bioware is not going to kill off all the elves, so I wouldn't worry about a genocide. The pro-elf community would have a massive communal vhenan attack, and Laidlaw and Weekes would get packages of rotten eggs or worse for the next decade.

[Nixou]

As for the Elf-Blooded Humans

 

 

I suspect that every humans with the potential for magic are elf-blooded, which would include Mages, Templars, and everyone with mages and templar relatives. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Humans with no Elvhen ancestors were eventually revealed to be a dwindling minority.

[EBDerevko]

What will become of the Elf-Blooded children who are currently being raised by their Elven mothers? Will they be abandoned or will they be going along with Elven parents? Will they face even heavier discrimination in Dragon Age 4 due to the Elves now being the enemies?

 

Also, will the Elf-Blooded Humans who are adults be discriminated as well by both sides, Humans and Elves now that the tension between the two is going to be higher than ever? Will they suffer an even worse fate than that of the Elves as it stands?

 

I think a sort of inner war amongst elves themselves is possible (as if they didn't have enough problems.) Now that the mage/templar war was (kind of) "solved" in DA:I, the elf/non-elf conflict finally begins. It was meant to happen sooner or later anyway, because they've been oppressed and subjugated much more than mages. The eventual backfire was inevitable, with or without Solas as a rebel leader pulling the strings.

 

Some of the elves could fight/spy the resistance for him, while others (like Fenris, Sera, and many more yet to be met) won't like him, his ideas, or his plans one bit. (Eluvians could be the new rifts, and maybe we'd have to go all over maps shattering them.)

 

As for Elven-blooded ones, maybe they'll be allowed to choose what to do as if they were any other elf. Or maybe the ones that side with Fen'Harel are extremists to the point of only agreeing to include "pure" elves.

Solas himself doesn't even think of the current elves as actual elves. When he says "my people" he means the ancient ones of his time, though he could make the current ones more like those if he succeeds with his plans.

 

Elven-blooded humans look more human than Elven, but tearing down the veil would be likely to activate the magic in them just as in any other elf, regardless of how they look or even their own personal preferences (it would affect those that think like Fenris and Sera too, for example, as much as they wouldn't even want it to.)

 

Or maybe only 100% Elven people are intended by Solas to survive (or maybe only the ancient ones, so he'd just be using the current elves as pawns.)

 

That would be a bit incoherent narratively. Solas favors choice and freedom, and yet he's making the choice for all other elves (and non-elves) in the name of his own will...

[GoldenGail3]

I think a sort of inner war amongst elves themselves is possible (as if they didn't have enough problems.) Now that the mage/templar war was (kind of) "solved" in DA:I, the elf/non-elf conflict finally begins. It was meant to happen sooner or later anyway, because they've been oppressed and subjugated much more than mages. The eventual backfire was inevitable, with or without Solas as a rebel leader pulling the strings.
 
Some of the elves could fight/spy the resistance for him, while others (like Fenris, Sera, and many more yet to be met) won't like him, his ideas, or his plans one bit. (Eluvians could be the new rifts, and maybe we'd have to go all over maps shattering them.)
 
As for Elven-blooded ones, maybe they'll be allowed to choose what to do as if they were any other elf. Or maybe the ones that side with Fen'Harel are extremists to the point of only agreeing to include "pure" elves.
Solas himself doesn't even think of the current elves as actual elves. When he says "my people" he means the ancient ones of his time, though he could make the current ones more like those if he succeeds with his plans.
 
Elven-blooded humans look more human than Elven, but tearing down the veil would be likely to activate the magic in them just as in any other elf, regardless of how they look or even their own personal preferences (it would affect those that think like Fenris and Sera too, for example, as much as they wouldn't even want it to.)
 
Or maybe only 100% Elven people are intended by Solas to survive (or maybe only the ancient ones, so he'd just be using the current elves as pawns.)

 
That would be a bit incoherent narratively. Solas favors choice and freedom, and yet he's making the choice for all other elves (and non-elves) in the name of his own will...

*images death in Solas's future by my Cousland* if he touches Alistair... She and I will demand revenge. Nobody touches Alistair and lives. Same thing with Cullen *Inquistor shots a arrow out her once-arm at Solas* but it doesn't sound as good as my OP Cousland murdering him for touching her husband.

[Solas]

aint nothin gonna happen to or with elf-blooded humans, they're just regular humans. 

[EBDerevko]

*images death in Solas's future by my Cousland* if he touches Alistair... She and I will demand revenge. Nobody touches Alistair and lives. Same thing with Cullen *Inquistor shots a arrow out her once-arm at Solas* but it doesn't sound as good as my OP Cousland murdering him for touching her husband.

 

As much as I adore Alistair (and he married my Cousland too), I think I made a mistake by putting him on the throne.

Him being a Grey Warden could have had disastrous consequences in DA:I, and him being Elven-blooded could possibly bring him trouble at some point, besides political and diplomatic issues because he isn't likely to have descendants due to the Grey Warden's initiation ritual.

 

The writers could totally break our hearts if they wanted too... they've been merciful so far, when you think of it.

[GoldenGail3]

As much as I adore Alistair (and he married my Cousland too), I think I made a mistake by putting him on the throne.
Him being a Grey Warden could have had disastrous consequences in DA:I, and him being Elven-blooded could possibly bring him trouble at some point, besides political and diplomatic issues because he isn't likely to have descendants due to the Grey Warden's initiation ritual.
 
The writers could totally break our hearts if they wanted too... they've been merciful so far, when you think of it.

No, I will demand his head on a pike! Nobody, I mean nobody touches my dear Alistair and lives. He's mine. My Cousland will find him any way possible to cut off his head. She's not to one to be trifled with (she's possibly worse than the Inqusitor, being ten times more powerful and willing to do whatever it takes to save her loved ones.)

[Andromelek]

I think a sort of inner war amongst elves themselves is possible (as if they didn't have enough problems.) Now that the mage/templar war was (kind of) "solved" in DA:I, the elf/non-elf conflict finally begins. It was meant to happen sooner or later anyway, because they've been oppressed and subjugated much more than mages. The eventual backfire was inevitable, with or without Solas as a rebel leader pulling the strings.
 
Some of the elves could fight/spy the resistance for him, while others (like Fenris, Sera, and many more yet to be met) won't like him, his ideas, or his plans one bit. (Eluvians could be the new rifts, and maybe we'd have to go all over maps shattering them.)
 
As for Elven-blooded ones, maybe they'll be allowed to choose what to do as if they were any other elf. Or maybe the ones that side with Fen'Harel are extremists to the point of only agreeing to include "pure" elves.
Solas himself doesn't even think of the current elves as actual elves. When he says "my people" he means the ancient ones of his time, though he could make the current ones more like those if he succeeds with his plans.
 
Elven-blooded humans look more human than Elven, but tearing down the veil would be likely to activate the magic in them just as in any other elf, regardless of how they look or even their own personal preferences (it would affect those that think like Fenris and Sera too, for example, as much as they wouldn't even want it to.)
 
Or maybe only 100% Elven people are intended by Solas to survive (or maybe only the ancient ones, so he'd just be using the current elves as pawns.)
 
That would be a bit incoherent narratively. Solas favors choice and freedom, and yet he's making the choice for all other elves (and non-elves) in the name of his own will...

He is indeed some kind of supremacist, although he doesn't want to admit it, even being an ancient elf, I would think it twice before join him, the ease with he killed Felassan and Flemeth makes clear that he doesn't care for anyone, he basically said that he would kill romanced Lavellan, who can trust someone willing to do that? Hope that Abelas doesn't side with him.

[EBDerevko]

He is indeed some kind of supremacist, although he doesn't want to admit it, even being an ancient elf, I would think it twice before join him, the ease with he killed Felassan and Flemeth makes clear that he doesn't care for anyone, he basically said that he would kill romanced Lavellan, who can trust someone willing to do that? Hope that Abelas doesn't side with him.

 

He comes from a time when elves ruled, instead of humans. Suddenly, not only everyone seems like a tranquil to him, but the descendants of his people are living in horrible conditions and being subjected to cruel treatments and reduced to servitude or slavery, mostly motivated by racism.

 

Frankly, if I wanted to oppose him, I wouldn't even know what to argue or how to start. He's got valid reasons for what he wants to do, but maybe there could be a way to safely lift the veil and benefit everyone equally from it, instead of "raw chaos" and burning the entire world.

 

For being a wise ancient elf, he's still rather short-sighted. He has "plans" regarding the Old Gods being freed when he lifts the veil, but that would also imply another protagonist cleaning up his mess again. His "plans" tend to end up horribly, and if he just messes everything up and goes to sleep again... well, that would be disappointing. I expect better.

 

I just finished my first gameplay in which I made a Lavellan romance him and... it was so beautifully written. It was far more emotionally demanding to me than I had expected.

I mention this because I can't recall him saying he'd kill Lavellan, but rather expressing that his ends are worth any cost to him (Felassan, and who knows how many more). But then what? He'd hate himself for ages for the cost he had to pay (and make others pay.) Short-sighted again.

 

As for Flemeth/Mythal, I still don't get what happened clearly (murder? betrayal? absorption? willing transition?) If Kieran existed, then Flemeth also had Urthemiel's soul within, which would have passed on to Solas in one way or another. If Morrigan/the Inquisitor drank from the Well, then they'd be bound to Solas' will by extension (and not just for life, but forever like Abelas and the Sentinels.)

 

What I still can't quite get my head around is why he'd even bother in calling the Inquisitor's attention just to warn and announce that he'll bring an imminent apocalypse. Just so they enjoy a few moments before the end?

Why would he even warn? To give them time to think of how to stop him? Well... maybe. Besides his regrets and self-loathing, he may also want to be stopped, deep down. I can also recall him saying to my human Inquisitor with high approval that he was hoping to be proved wrong once more (in response to the "redeem" choice instead of "stop/defeat".)

 

Either way, he's going to do something horrible and definitely not be the same Solas we met in DA:I 

[Qun00]

Those poor elves are nothing more than tools to be discarded.

[nightscrawl]

Interesting post, OP.

 

Elf-blooded children? I'd hope in most cases their elven parents would keep them and not be inclined to join Fen'Harel anyway, assuming those children were conceived consensually. If an elf had already loved a human, I'd hope they wouldn't go for his whole plan of killing everyone but the ancient elves. But a few might. Sometimes people under stress grab onto the first thing that sounds like a promise of change, even if it's really unwise.

Yes, very sound. There is also the fact that some, like Michel de Chevin, are hiding their elf parentage; Michel was doing so rather well until the events in Masked Empire. No one except Fiona (and players) knows of Alistair's, everyone else who might have is dead. I'm sure there are many others who are living in secret, dreading that they will be discovered.

 

I'm also wondering what, if any, implications this will have in Tevinter. They have had slave revolts in the past, but it might actually succeed if there is outside help, or if there is further motivation beyond personal freedom (already a strong motivator).

 

 

Regarding Flemeth... I got the feeling that what happened in the post-credit scene was consensual, or at least that she knew it was coming and accepted it. He said he was sorry, she said she was sorry, then the thing happened.

[S.W.]

The elf-blooded humans have always had me super curious. They might look human, but one of their parents is an elf. Wouldn't that mean some things would be different for them? The elves see the Crossroads in color, would an elf-blooded human?

 

Uh sorry, just adding more questions. You are asking a lot of good questions, can't wait for the theorists to comment! I'm not creative enough to think up any god answers!

 

Elf-blooded humans perceive the crossroads identically to other humans. You can see this in The Masked Empire - Michel de Chevin reacts to the crossroads in the same way as Celene. Only Briala and Felassan see the crossroads in all its beauty.

 

aint nothin gonna happen to or with elf-blooded humans, they're just regular humans. 

 

^ this.

[Moirin]

The elf-blooded humans have always had me super curious. They might look human, but one of their parents is an elf. Wouldn't that mean some things would be different for them? The elves see the Crossroads in color, would an elf-blooded human?

 

No I don't think they would. In the book "The Masked Empire" Michel de Cheven didn't experience any of the benefits that the elves seemed to have when they were walking around in the Crossroads/Eluvian places, so I doubt any other elf-blooded would either.

 

EDIT: Oh nvm, it was already answered.

[Carmen_Willow]

I so wanted to rage at Solas in those final moments, to tell him that he had become the thing he hated. How many times did he have to see the powerful become utterly corrupt before he realized that destroying our world to usher in his version of Utopia would only end in the same way it had the first time.  Did he not realize that freeing the slaves meant NOTHING if we was going to use his power to return Thedas to what was? Did he honestly think that he could prevent the cycle from spinning?  How many years before the powerful once again ruled and the powerless were once again enslaved? How could he be so blind? How dare he think that his world was BETTER. He destroyed his civilization because it was so corrupt and yet now he thinks it's a good idea to recreate it?

 

His hubris was mind-boggling, and he made me feel as though I was less, that I was nothing more than a cherished pet, loved a little but not enough to be considered equal. (You have to admit, the writing was fantastic. It brought forth a whole bunch of feelings for me. Great job, Bioware.) I was hurt enough when he ended it without explanation; however, the explanation hurt even more.

[Panda]

Most of elf-blooded humans are regarded as humans by Thedas society. I don't think anyone thinks Alistair nor Michel as elf even if truth about their mothers were revealed.

[Silent X]

Another thing: Am I the only one who now gets the feeling that Ameridan's reveal at the end of Jaws of Hakkon is in fact an eerie foreshadowing of things to come? He comments on his concern that many elves seemed disinclined to help the humans of Orlais against the Blight in his time, and subsequently my companions (Blackwall and Dorian, for me, I assume everyone says something here) commented that the elves essentially leaving Orlais to the darkspawn engendered a ton of hostility, which ultimately culminated in the Exalted March on the Dales. And look where things went from there: the Canticle of Shartan excised from the Chant of Light, Ameridan's identity as an elf mage suppressed, elves widely discriminated against and forcibly transformed into an underclass.

 

In light of all that, I think Solas leading an elven uprising to destroy the world as we know it will only make things a whole lot worse for elves generally. If refusing to help humans against a clear and present danger (which in time would have threatened them, too) got the elves a boatload of hatred, what will be the result of elves actually making war on the other races? People who used to settle for calling elves "knife-ear" are going to start actually killing them. I don't doubt there will be some serious, and very ugly, escalation. I'm sure there will still be some level-headed types who realize that not all elves subscribe to Fen'Harel's movement, but how numerous will they be? And will they be influential enough to cool the tempers of the rest? I don't think elves as a species will be completely wiped out, but I think things are going to get worse for them.

 

@ Ardent Blossom

 

Good point about the Divine. I also have Leliana as Divine in my game, but the steeled version. She also opens up the Chantry to all races and genders, but is rather more. . . ruthless about dealing with dissent in the ranks. Here's hoping she puts that hard edge to good use protecting the innocent.

[NeverlandHunter]

Elf-blooded humans perceive the crossroads identically to other humans. You can see this in The Masked Empire - Michel de Chevin reacts to the crossroads in the same way as Celene. Only Briala and Felassan see the crossroads in all its beauty.

 

 

^ this.

Thanks for the reply!

aint nothin gonna happen to or with elf-blooded humans, they're just regular humans. 

 

 

It's kind of sad that they inherit nothing from their elven parent. That's half their heritage... but in a way it's not all

[GoldenGail3]

It's kind of sad that they inherit nothing from their elven parent. That's half their heritage... but in a way it's not all

Some magical bearing elf-blooded humans have elven traits, as it's more magical then 'biological'.