Some magical bearing elf-blooded humans have elven traits, as it's more magical then 'biological'.
Ah, is that how Feynriel's looks were explained? I wonder how he would see the Crossroads, being a Dreamer that is.
Some magical bearing elf-blooded humans have elven traits, as it's more magical then 'biological'.
Ah, is that how Feynriel's looks were explained? I wonder how he would see the Crossroads, being a Dreamer that is.
Ah, is that how Feynriel's looks were explained? I wonder how he would see the Crossroads, being a Dreamer that is.
I don't imagine anything is going to happen to them because I don't imagine Solas is actually going to succeed. Given that if Solas' plan was to come to fruition, future games would be about as logistically viable as if Corypheus had succeeded, I can't foresee an outcome in DA4 or whatever game we face him in that doesn't involve us either defeating him or talking him out it.
I don't imagine anything is going to happen to them because I don't imagine Solas is actually going to succeed. Given that if Solas' plan was to come to fruition, future games would be about as logistically viable as if Corypheus had succeeded, I can't foresee an outcome in DA4 or whatever game we face him in that doesn't involve us either defeating him or talking him out it.
I don't know, there's quite a bit of foreshadowing that the Veil is going to come down regardless of anything we might try to do to stop it.
I dunno, we don't know how Dreamers see the Crossroads (differently, I think, but we don't know)
It'll be interesting to get answers to some of these questions ![]()
I don't imagine anything is going to happen to them because I don't imagine Solas is actually going to succeed. Given that if Solas' plan was to come to fruition, future games would be about as logistically viable as if Corypheus had succeeded, I can't foresee an outcome in DA4 or whatever game we face him in that doesn't involve us either defeating him or talking him out it.
Agreeable! If Solas succeeds, then it's over. Countless lives will be lost and I don't think Bioware is going to have that one happen in DA4.
aint nothin gonna happen to or with elf-blooded humans, they're just regular humans.
Solas, are you sure about that one? What about the Elf-Blooded Humans who are children living with their Elven mothers like how Michel de Chevin did when he was a child? ![]()
Those poor elves are nothing more than tools to be discarded.
Indeed, after everything is said and done, they will not only realize that they threw away their entire lives, but they will also suffer the worst fate possible because of this. The repercussions will be so negative toward them, I will not be surprised if genocides and new exalted marches are going to be carried out across Thedas toward them on a regular basis after Fen'Harel's defeat. O.o
Interesting post, OP.
Yes, very sound. There is also the fact that some, like Michel de Chevin, are hiding their elf parentage; Michel was doing so rather well until the events in Masked Empire. No one except Fiona (and players) knows of Alistair's, everyone else who might have is dead. I'm sure there are many others who are living in secret, dreading that they will be discovered.
I'm also wondering what, if any, implications this will have in Tevinter. They have had slave revolts in the past, but it might actually succeed if there is outside help, or if there is further motivation beyond personal freedom (already a strong motivator).
Like I said, it's pretty scary of what could really happen to the Elf-Blooded Humans as of now, especially the ones who are children being raised by their mothers like in Michael de Chevin's case when he was a kid.
As for the ones who are adults, they may or may not make it out of this whole thing. But if they do not make it out of this, then I can tell you right now any of them who are serving as anything, military soldier, spy, etc. are going to get a lot of crap for their elven lineage after Fen'Harel is defeated. And regardless of what became of Alistair depending on your choices (except if you made him a wondering drunkard), he will get a ton of sh*t for his Elven lineage. If you made him King of Fereldan, which a lot of people did, then he will be facing a high amount of revolt and discrimination despite him being King for years now. Regardless, it's only something that his mother Fiona can address properly in order to save him from a fate he has yet to suffer from. Truth.
Most of elf-blooded humans are regarded as humans by Thedas society. I don't think anyone thinks Alistair nor Michel as elf even if truth about their mothers were revealed.
As I asked to before, what of the Elf-Blooded Humans who are living in Elven Alienages being raised by their mothers like how Michel was for a while? What will happen to them? Those Elf-Blooded Children are still children as of now. Some of them might be in their early teens, but regardless, you gotta feel sorry for them.
Another thing: Am I the only one who now gets the feeling that Ameridan's reveal at the end of Jaws of Hakkon is in fact an eerie foreshadowing of things to come? He comments on his concern that many elves seemed disinclined to help the humans of Orlais against the Blight in his time, and subsequently my companions (Blackwall and Dorian, for me, I assume everyone says something here) commented that the elves essentially leaving Orlais to the darkspawn engendered a ton of hostility, which ultimately culminated in the Exalted March on the Dales. And look where things went from there: the Canticle of Shartan excised from the Chant of Light, Ameridan's identity as an elf mage suppressed, elves widely discriminated against and forcibly transformed into an underclass.
In light of all that, I think Solas leading an elven uprising to destroy the world as we know it will only make things a whole lot worse for elves generally. If refusing to help humans against a clear and present danger (which in time would have threatened them, too) got the elves a boatload of hatred, what will be the result of elves actually making war on the other races? People who used to settle for calling elves "knife-ear" are going to start actually killing them. I don't doubt there will be some serious, and very ugly, escalation. I'm sure there will still be some level-headed types who realize that not all elves subscribe to Fen'Harel's movement, but how numerous will they be? And will they be influential enough to cool the tempers of the rest? I don't think elves as a species will be completely wiped out, but I think things are going to get worse for them.
@ Ardent Blossom
Good point about the Divine. I also have Leliana as Divine in my game, but the steeled version. She also opens up the Chantry to all races and genders, but is rather more. . . ruthless about dealing with dissent in the ranks. Here's hoping she puts that hard edge to good use protecting the innocent.
As much as I'd hate to say it, it's true. Not even joking when I am saying this, the elves are probably going to face a series of genocidal campaigns by the Qunari, mass murder by the dwarves and Exalted Marches by the Chantry and Humans in general. All of which will be happening to them on a regular basis as I said before to Qun00.
And that's exactly why I brought up the Elf-Blooded children as well. The ones who are being raised by their Elven mothers (usually it's a female Elf that gets with a male Human from what we have witnessed in the games and books), they are might have an even worse fate just because of their Elven lineage and the fact that many Elves are joining Fen'Harel will only make it even worse for them. They will forever be known as the children of the species who helped nearly destroy the world as Fen'Harel plans to do in order to restore the old Elven world, which will cost countless lives if he succeeds, which he won't obviously, but you get what I mean.
Some magical bearing elf-blooded humans have elven traits, as it's more magical then 'biological'.
Y'know, that's actually kind of interesting! I would love to see more of the Elf-Blooded show off more of their Elven traits. Hope we get to see that in DA4.
Solas' plan will only make the history repeat itself. Remember when Elves were overlords ? How they got everyone else in the world got united and defeated them to the point they lost their home and their own people fell into 2nd class in the world ?
Long story short...this cycle has to end one way or another. What Solas is planning will only make it continue. Because slavery and having one race looking above from another will only make them a bigger target to take down. No matter how powerful you think you are, someone more powerful or those who had enough of your 'superiority' will band together and take you down.
I expected a supposed 'God' to be smarter than that. After seeing how a few determined heroes can defeat any world ending threats...I thought he would've gone ''Oh maybe I shouldn't make myself and my people a target for a second genocide...''. Man the next game will have so many awful things from the past repeat itself...
At least with Archdemons, you know they are corrupted and are sole agents of chaos. What Solas trying to do is actually worse since he is supposedly a God, has capability of thinking suppedly higher than average people and yet he puts even the most awful Thugs and bandits to shame with his barbaric plan.
I am just disappointed that it will take that route with Elves turned into looking like bad guys again since...they don't have much in this world so they will join Solas' apocalyptic 'Elves will rule the new world' cult. The aftermath won't be something I am looking forward to really.
@ Kirby5413
re: Elf-blooded humans: As some others have mentioned, those whose lineage isn't known should be able to pass just fine if they wish. But I expect any elf-blooded human whose mixed heritage is known is likely to encounter just as much hatred as a full-blooded elf. As for the gender breakdown among parents of elf-blooded children, I don't think we really have that much data. We have probably encountered more clear instances of elven mothers and human fathers because the mother is the one who carries and delivers the child and the one who in most cases will rear it, and since all elf-blooded children appear human, seeing a human child with an elven mother makes it obvious there was an interracial encounter. A human woman could have a male elf lover and bear his child without anyone being any the wiser, as long as they never actually saw the father and the mother didn't tell anyone he was an elf. I think I recall finding a codex entry somewhere in the Dales written by a human man talking about his love of nature and how he thought he had inherited it from his father, whom he had never known but who his mother had told him was an elf. Thus I wouldn't assume that elf-blooded children with elf fathers are necessarily much less common than the other way around, but in any instance where the parents didn't raise their child together, and allowing that absent fathers seem to be more common in the setting than absent mothers (my impression, I don't have hard data on this), elf-blooded humans with elven fathers would probably have a lower chance of their elven heritage being discovered.
@ Wowlock
I more or less agree. In fairness, we don't know exactly what Solas plans on doing yet in terms of bringing back the world he remembers, but considering how well his last plan went, it seems as though he should question his own wisdom. However, we should note that he was at least smart enough not to reveal his entire plan to the Inquisitor.
I get the impression he's motivated by overpowering homesickness/nostalgia and that that's clouding his judgment to some degree. Thedas as we know it is alien to him and he simply can't adjust to it and doesn't want to, and his feeling of dislocation makes him utterly desperate to restore something familiar.
I am still unsure as to just what proportion of the total elven population he has recruited or will manage to recruit, and I really wonder if they know they'll die, too, if he succeeds, or if he's leading them to believe that he's going to restore a world where things will be better for them, not just some other, radically different elves who are his only true people. I'd think he would only find a very limited number of elves who hate their lives and their world enough to want to see it all burn and themselves with it, but if he's misleading people, he could get a lot more downtrodden and angry--but not insane or self-destructive--elves on his side. However, I hardly need to say that tricking an oppressed people into abetting their own demise is utterly, inexcusably low.
It's interesting how characters see themselves, isn't it? Blackwall calls himself a monster for a crime for which he feels tremendous remorse, would never repeat, and has dedicated his life to atoning for; while Solas tells us he intends to destroy the world and kill everyone in it, then maintains that he isn't a monster. My Inquisitor was friends with Solas and considered him a mentor, even told him she'd show him another way, but she's left wondering what she could possibly say to dissuade someone who is unmoved by the knowledge that his plan requires the deaths of untold millions who have never done him or his people any wrong.
Solas' plan will only make the history repeat itself. Remember when Elves were overlords ? How they got everyone else in the world got united and defeated them to the point they lost their home and their own people fell into 2nd class in the world ?
No, because that's not what happened. What games have you been playing?
Once, the waking world and spiritual world were one and the same, and the elves were intrinsically tied to the Fade. It gave them their magic and immortality and an ever-present conscious connection to the Fade. The elves also happened to be the one sentient race who inhabited pre-Veil Thedas, with the dwarves underground and the humans arriving on the scene later. By all accounts they found humans interesting and funny since they were so short-lived and hot-blooded compared to them, but I haven't heard of any account of elves enslaving humans or anything like that; they traded and intermarried with humans and were overall good neighbors. (Unlike humans, who wasted no time conquering and enslaving elves the second they were weakened by the quickening.)
But, like every other race in the setting, the elves weren't perfect. Like every other society in the setting, theirs had problems. Like like every other empire in the setting, theirs was built on blood. Just like Tevinter and Orlais (both human empires) and Orzammar (a dwarven empire), a small ruling class imposed its will on the more numerous lower classes and an elite few lived like gods while the oppressed masses labored and sacrificed. Then an elven freedom fighter created the Veil that sealed the elves' oppressive elite, which created the unintended side-effect of stripping the remaining elves of their magic and immortality.
If you're going to condemn the elves for having an oppressive elite in their society, better condemn humans and dwarves having the exact same problems.
Oh, but feel free not to place the blame for humans conquering and enslaving the remaining elves directly on the elves' shoulders, because I've never heard of elves conquering and enslaving humans back when they were shorter-lived and weaker than elves, but humans certainly wasted no time in taking advantage of the elves' weakness just after the same Veil that sealed away their oppressive elite "quickened" them.
I think you just described humans right there.
And unintentionally played devil's advocate for why elves would want to oppose them in this matter.
(Not that I agree with Fen'Harel's plan or elves who would want to join him, but I can see where centuries of slavery and second-class citizenry and broken promises under the Human Master Race would drive so many elves to give up on waiting around for them to grant them their fair share or die out of their own accord.)
I am just disappointed that it will take that route with Elves turned into looking like bad guys again since...they don't have much in this world so they will join Solas' apocalyptic 'Elves will rule the new world' cult. The aftermath won't be something I am looking forward to really.
For once, I actually agree.
I've been wanting to help elves so much since I first discovered DA (they're my favorite Thedas race, society, and cultures--city, Dalish, Elvhen, don't care, I love them all), and now I'm afraid that it'll all be undone once we're forced to stop Solas... (If we have to stop him but can't do anything else to help them once his "restore their immortality and magic" plan is thwarted, they'll be right back where they started but now with their human overlords p!ssed. Andrastian humans are still punishing the entire elven race outside Tevinter [where there's actual slavery] for one seeming raid on one village over 700 years ago--how will they react when they catch wind that some elves tried to burn the whole world and restore their own empire on top of the ages?)
As I asked to before, what of the Elf-Blooded Humans who are living in Elven Alienages being raised by their mothers like how Michel was for a while? What will happen to them? Those Elf-Blooded Children are still children as of now. Some of them might be in their early teens, but regardless, you gotta feel sorry for them.
I'm not sure, but the thing is that child of human and elf is always human so likely humans do take them more gladly within their ranks than elves do.
Solas, are you sure about that one? What about the Elf-Blooded Humans who are children living with their Elven mothers like how Michel de Chevin did when he was a child? :unsur
Y'know, that's actually kind of interesting! I would love to see more of the Elf-Blooded show off more of their Elven traits. Hope we get to see that in DA4.
... he will get a ton of sh*t for his Elven lineage. If you made him King of Fereldan, which a lot of people did, then he will be facing a high amount of revolt and discrimination despite him being King for years now. Regardless, it's only something that his mother Fiona can address properly in order to save him from a fate he has yet to suffer from. Truth.
I don't understand where you're coming from with this. Right now Fiona is the only person alive in the entire world who knows. Even before there were only three people: Fiona, Duncan, Maric. Not even Alistair himself knows. Why would she tell anyone? And also in some players' games she's dead, leaving no one at all who knows the truth.
I don't understand where you're coming from with this. Right now Fiona is the only person alive in the entire world who knows. Even before there were only three people: Fiona, Duncan, Maric. Not even Alistair himself knows. Why would she tell anyone? And also in some players' games she's dead, leaving no one at all who knows the truth.
I doubt anyone or thing will survive if Solas succeeds, he doesn't regard the current denizens of Thedas, the modern Elves included as 'people'. He only regards the ancient Elves of the past his kin, and will readily kill everyone in a heartbeat in order to bring them back. He's most likely manipulating the elves of today and intentionally misleading them. The greatest lies always have a speck of truth in them.
Weren't Feynriel's looks acknowledged as an oversight? Slim Couldry is elf-blooded and nobody points to him and says "look at the elfyness of his looks". Tell me if I'm remembering wrong though.
I'm not suggesting elf mothers with their young human children will all just cast their children aside and abandon them, but nothing special or magical will happen to elf-blooded children or people, they're just humans. Elf-blooded is a legal distinction only and if Solas' proposed new world is for elves only there's no place for elf-blooded people in it - in fact they're part of the problem (not that it's their fault), further diluting and reducing what is "Elvhen".
Maybe the elf mothers with human kids will just not go join Fen'Harel's forces or whatever (if that's what the migrating elves are doing). That's what I'd do, just not go.
I doubt anyone or thing will survive if Solas succeeds, he doesn't regard the current denizens of Thedas, the modern Elves included as 'people'. He only regards the ancient Elves of the past his kin, and will readily kill everyone in a heartbeat in order to bring them back. He's most likely manipulating the elves of today and intentionally misleading them. The greatest lies always have a speck of truth in them.
Yeah, that "people" line is really all the answer needed for why it wasn't reasonable that the Inquisitor should want to help him, because that also extends to the Inquisitor as well and everyone they care about. And even if it didn't, if the inquisitor were the ONE exception, that still leaves everyone else in Thedas, including all of the elves, Dalish or city, which a pro-elf Inquisitor would presumably care about.
I'll give one specific RP instance a pass on the above: a Dalish Inquisitor whose clan was wiped out who just doesn't give a sh*t about anything else and thinks they have nothing to lose. And considering the amount of complaints I've seen from those players who couldn't manage to actually save their clan on the war table, there are a lot of those...
Exactly! I imagine he compares the modern Elves to be little more than Neanderthals than the Elves of the past. They've undergone a devolution in his eyes, which is reinforced by Abelas, when he explicitly state that the Elves of today are not "his" people. It would be like if a human said that a chimp was his kin.
We do not know what is happening with the elves across Thedas... just that servants and elves from Inquisition were disappearing. We know, that not all of them - (inquisitor), Sera, Charter... assuming many "nameless" elves as well.
Besides - do you really think every citizen of Thedas would be informed about such a threat? First - most people would not believe even in Solas´ existence (how Divine solve this Chantry crisis will be interesting - if Chantry survive this), second leaders would not just shout out such information in public which would cause panic and their probable loss of their warm places and power. Inquisitor was the only source of information about Solas´ plans - I don´t know how you, but me (beiing elf or not, and especially believing in the Maker) - I wouldn´t believe some jerk´s crazy babbling about the end of the world...
Also presumption that those disappeared elves are organised is hardly correct. It would be like invitation for anyone - inquisitor in the first place - where to strike first... corruption and spies lurk everywhere...
Solas' plan will only make the history repeat itself. Remember when Elves were overlords ? How they got everyone else in the world got united and defeated them to the point they lost their home and their own people fell into 2nd class in the world ?
Long story short...this cycle has to end one way or another. What Solas is planning will only make it continue. Because slavery and having one race looking above from another will only make them a bigger target to take down. No matter how powerful you think you are, someone more powerful or those who had enough of your 'superiority' will band together and take you down.
I expected a supposed 'God' to be smarter than that. After seeing how a few determined heroes can defeat any world ending threats...I thought he would've gone ''Oh maybe I shouldn't make myself and my people a target for a second genocide...''. Man the next game will have so many awful things from the past repeat itself...
At least with Archdemons, you know they are corrupted and are sole agents of chaos. What Solas trying to do is actually worse since he is supposedly a God, has capability of thinking suppedly higher than average people and yet he puts even the most awful Thugs and bandits to shame with his barbaric plan.
I am just disappointed that it will take that route with Elves turned into looking like bad guys again since...they don't have much in this world so they will join Solas' apocalyptic 'Elves will rule the new world' cult. The aftermath won't be something I am looking forward to really.
Agreed, as I said before. The Elves will be facing countless genocides by the Qunari, Mass murder and mugging by the Dwarves, Slavery without punishment or being looked at as wrong by the Tevinters and a series of Exxalted Marches against them. All on a regular basis after Solas is defeated. Sad, but true!
@ Kirby5413
re: Elf-blooded humans: As some others have mentioned, those whose lineage isn't known should be able to pass just fine if they wish. But I expect any elf-blooded human whose mixed heritage is known is likely to encounter just as much hatred as a full-blooded elf. As for the gender breakdown among parents of elf-blooded children, I don't think we really have that much data. We have probably encountered more clear instances of elven mothers and human fathers because the mother is the one who carries and delivers the child and the one who in most cases will rear it, and since all elf-blooded children appear human, seeing a human child with an elven mother makes it obvious there was an interracial encounter. A human woman could have a male elf lover and bear his child without anyone being any the wiser, as long as they never actually saw the father and the mother didn't tell anyone he was an elf. I think I recall finding a codex entry somewhere in the Dales written by a human man talking about his love of nature and how he thought he had inherited it from his father, whom he had never known but who his mother had told him was an elf. Thus I wouldn't assume that elf-blooded children with elf fathers are necessarily much less common than the other way around, but in any instance where the parents didn't raise their child together, and allowing that absent fathers seem to be more common in the setting than absent mothers (my impression, I don't have hard data on this), elf-blooded humans with elven fathers would probably have a lower chance of their elven heritage being discovered.
Exactly! Hence why I believe that the Elf-Blooded Humans with Elven mothers and the ones being raised by them currently will face just as much danger as a full-blooded Elf as you said.
You really got to feel sorry for them, they may look human, but once their heritage is discovered or if they are children seen with their Elven mothers, their lives will take a turn for the worst because of all of what is about to go down. ![]()
I don't know, there's quite a bit of foreshadowing that the Veil is going to come down regardless of anything we might try to do to stop it.
Eh. End of the day, the bad guy's got to lose.
The most I see coming from Solas' plan is that the Veil stays up but one or more of the elven God-kings get free and become the next big bad after Solas.
Elf-blooded children/adults will be fine as long as they can keep up their appearances. de Chevin had to forge papers and bury his secrets deep so only super bard-spies and those with a lot of money can know. Not regular people he interacted with, but he was always on edge and be on guard should his potential "elfy-ness" come out.
At worst, the elven mother or father will have to act as a servant when out in public if the situation becomes really hostile fueled by paranoia that all elves work for Fen'Harel and wants to destroy the world. Which is pretty degrading. Yuck. ![]()
Most likely, they will have to deal with the treatment built on by years of discrimination than what Solas can possibly foster. It's sad how elves and the families are getting the fallout even though not surprising given how everything is set up.
Agreed, as I said before. The Elves will be facing countless genocides by the Qunari, Mass murder and mugging by the Dwarves, Slavery without punishment or being looked at as wrong by the Tevinters and a series of Exxalted Marches against them. All on a regular basis after Solas is defeated. Sad, but true!
I don't know...if/when Solas is defeated/changes his mind about the CRAZY maybe he'll just use some nifty Elvhen magic to make everyone forget (please read that as half joking). Or...maybe some new even worse enemy (the Titans, Elgar'nan, Morrigan/Mythal on a vengeance rampage, Reapers, Darth Revan) will rear its ugly head, so no one will have time to punish the elves.
That being said, there is no reason to believe the elves couldn't hold their own against shem forces in the aftermath of whatever happens with Solas. They may have the eluvian network, fancy ancient elven armor and weapons caches, sentinel elves, guerrilla warfare training from The Dread Wolf, and possibly freed elven circle mages all at their disposal. I know we are accustomed to thinking of elves as weak victims, but maybe this time they will rise up and truly never again submit. With the truth coming out about Ameridan, the reintroduction of the Canticle of Shartan, Briala sitting as a Marquise of the Dales, AND Solas' CRAZY to top it off, the elves are going to be high on Elven Pride in my world state.
At least there is probably an eluvian leading to someplace so far away where the elves could safely hide from their enemies indefinitely. Who knows what lies beyond the edges of the map of Thedas? Maybe that's where all the servants went when they disappeared.
Weren't Feynriel's looks acknowledged as an oversight? Slim Couldry is elf-blooded and nobody points to him and says "look at the elfyness of his looks". Tell me if I'm remembering wrong though.
I'm not suggesting elf mothers with their young human children will all just cast their children aside and abandon them, but nothing special or magical will happen to elf-blooded children or people, they're just humans. Elf-blooded is a legal distinction only and if Solas' proposed new world is for elves only there's no place for elf-blooded people in it - in fact they're part of the problem (not that it's their fault), further diluting and reducing what is "Elvhen".
Maybe the elf mothers with human kids will just not go join Fen'Harel's forces or whatever (if that's what the migrating elves are doing). That's what I'd do, just not go.
This is something that I believe we can both agree on! For that, I will put a like on your post and +rep if I can! ![]()
I suspect that every humans with the potential for magic are elf-blooded, which would include Mages, Templars, and everyone with mages and templar relatives. If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if Humans with no Elvhen ancestors were eventually revealed to be a dwindling minority.
Here's an interesting thought:
Solas takes down the Veil, expecting only those with ancient elf blood to survive, but forgets the tiny little detail above. So now everybody takes up pitchforks and goes after him.