16 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobra's_back]

Are Elven God mages Elves that joined spirits or were they spirits that turned to Elves? 

 

"Solas: How do you feel, Cole, now that you dealt with the Templar?

Cole: I don't know. He hurt me... hurt the real Cole. I'm angry at him.

Cole: I can't let that go. I have to become more, let it make me real.

Solas: You may well become fully human, after all. I never thought to see it.

Cole: When did you see it before?

Solas: I did not say that I had.

Cole: No, you didn't. It's harder to hear, sometimes. Sorry.

Solas: Good luck, Cole. You have taken a difficult road.

 

Q3 Do you work with anyone?

Q Wisdom and purpose? - DAIApproval Slightly Approves

Is Cassandra defined by her cheekbones and not her faith? Varric by his chest hair and not his wit?

Yes, spirits are people. - DAIApproval Approves

You need a body to be real. - DAIApproval Slightly Disapproves

Spirits lack free will. - DAIApproval Slightly Disapproves

 

Cass: I'm sorry about your friend. I didn't know spirits/demons were similar.

Solas: They are the same. A spirit is a purpose a demon is that purpose corrupted. 

Cass: That might be true of the spirit of compassion but what is the purpose of a hunger demon.

Solas: Survival, pleasure of taste feeding. True hunger however is much darker think of all those who starve in this world mankind has itself to blame for the existence of demons.

 

End of trespasser when you ask him why everyone has to die he states it would be easy to tell you but he can't.

 

The Chantry is not always correct BUT they still have some information that holds some truth like who started the blight. In the Chantry teachings, the spirits are "the Maker's first children."

 

"According to the Chantry, the spirits of the Fade are the first children of the Maker. He turned his back on them because they lacked a soul – they could twist the Fade to their liking, but lacked the ability to imagine and create, and thus emulate their creator. "

 

Take a look at the fact that everything the Ancient Elves created was based on magic fueled by the fade and titan's blood. That is not actually inventing. When you build a bridge you have to think of the environmental forces that act on it, material stability over time, and the stress capacity it can take as a function of time. No doubt in my mind the organic organism that thinks and evolves over time is the better of the two. Free will allows a person to have good noble thoughts and bad ones as well. All organic organism have a percentage that can't make it and die thus the basis of evolution. 

 

So why does Solas need all the people to die including modern elves. He states they are not his people. Why are the Elven gods tied to a purpose? A Spirit is a purpose that can be corrupted around organic organisms according to Solas.

 

Solas= rebel=chaos

Mythal= the Great Protector=justice=vengence

Andruil= Goddess of the Hunt=Goddess of Sacrifice= hunting both animals and mortals

 

So do we have to die so that their purpose won't be corrupted and only they roam?

[Poledo]

Good points. The better question is; why is Solas bald? He has retained his immortality when the others lost it, and it seems he has always been so anyways. For all his power, keeping hair on his head is beyond him apparently.

[robertmarilyn]

Good points. The better question is; why is Solas bald? He has retained his immortality when the others lost it, and it seems he has always been so anyways. For all his power, keeping hair on his head is beyond him apparently.

 

Better bald than one of DAI's ugly hairstyles. 

[Arshei]

Good points. The better question is; why is Solas bald? He has retained his immortality when the others lost it, and it seems he has always been so anyways. For all his power, keeping hair on his head is beyond him apparently.

 

He is from Brazzers. (He does videos but with spirits (omg that's disgusting))

[Gervaise]

All the ancient elves are bald judging from the ones we meet in the Temple of Mythal, who are the only ones we see apart from Solas.   Better question would be how come the later elves acquired hair?   If the original elves were spirits that became more substantial then that might account for the lack of hair since they would have no basis for knowing they needed it, although you could also argue why did they think they needed to look like they do?   Still, if you accept that they had some concept of how they should look, then that would remain fixed.     After the loss of immortality they became more material and so started sprouting hair.

 

There is also the possibility that the Chant was right and humans did come into being at the same time as the material world and were a lot hairier than now, pre-historic humans in appearance probably little in advance of animals.    The spirits that moved over from the Fade decided to mimic their form but distinguished themselves by not having hair.    Then they advanced far quicker than the humans because of their access to magic.    The humans remained primitive for a long time and probably were seen as slaves (or vermin according to the Dalish) if considered at all.    Magic got into humans after the creation of the Veil, through interbreeding, which result in elf bloodied but human looking children.  

[Poledo]

Better bald than one of DAI's ugly hairstyles. 

 

 

He is from Brazzers. (He does videos but with spirits (omg that's disgusting))

 

 

Holy crap! you two are cracking me up.

 

All the ancient elves are bald judging from the ones we meet in the Temple of Mythal, who are the only ones we see apart from Solas.   Better question would be how come the later elves acquired hair?   If the original elves were spirits that became more substantial then that might account for the lack of hair since they would have no basis for knowing they needed it, although you could also argue why did they think they needed to look like they do?   Still, if you accept that they had some concept of how they should look, then that would remain fixed.     After the loss of immortality they became more material and so started sprouting hair.

 

There is also the possibility that the Chant was right and humans did come into being at the same time as the material world and were a lot hairier than now, pre-historic humans in appearance probably little in advance of animals.    The spirits that moved over from the Fade decided to mimic their form but distinguished themselves by not having hair.    Then they advanced far quicker than the humans because of their access to magic.    The humans remained primitive for a long time and probably were seen as slaves (or vermin according to the Dalish) if considered at all.    Magic got into humans after the creation of the Veil, through interbreeding, which result in elf bloodied but human looking children.  

 

Interesting theory. I guess I never really payed attention to the elves in Mythal to pick that up. All those dang hoods it was hard to tell.

[TobiTobsen]

He is from Brazzers. (He does videos but with spirits (omg that's disgusting))

 

Mr. Solas Sins is the most talented guy on the planet. He is an engineer, a doctor, dentist, karate master, school teacher, pizza delivery guy, plumber and much more! In the near future he will become an astronaut... so why not an elvhen god? Seems to fit his portfolio.

[Panda]

Pretty interesting although I'm not sure if I want ancient elves to be spirits that have become humane and now want to destroy humans. Not really my favorite plottwist.

[Sah291]

So basically, you're saying he wants to get rid of demons by removing the physical/material world...and with it all the corrupting influences and people who twist spirits (whom he considers his people) away from their original purpose...which, if the Chant is correct, was to emulate the Maker?

Hmm. Maybe. That might not literally kill everyone in the world but might utterly destroy individual identity. If spirits went into shock being pulled to the physical world through rifts, most physical beings would probably suffer the same shock merging with the fade. People wouldn't necessarily have bodies anymore, and their spirits/souls could still persist in a raw form in the fade, but it would completely wipe their memory and personality.

That might explain why he was so fascinated by the Inquisitor and their ability to enter the fade physically, twice. Could be he was hoping for a way to use that.

[Cobra's_back]

All the ancient elves are bald judging from the ones we meet in the Temple of Mythal, who are the only ones we see apart from Solas.   Better question would be how come the later elves acquired hair?   If the original elves were spirits that became more substantial then that might account for the lack of hair since they would have no basis for knowing they needed it, although you could also argue why did they think they needed to look like they do?   Still, if you accept that they had some concept of how they should look, then that would remain fixed.     After the loss of immortality they became more material and so started sprouting hair.

 

There is also the possibility that the Chant was right and humans did come into being at the same time as the material world and were a lot hairier than now, pre-historic humans in appearance probably little in advance of animals.    The spirits that moved over from the Fade decided to mimic their form but distinguished themselves by not having hair.    Then they advanced far quicker than the humans because of their access to magic.    The humans remained primitive for a long time and probably were seen as slaves (or vermin according to the Dalish) if considered at all.    Magic got into humans after the creation of the Veil, through interbreeding, which result in elf bloodied but human looking children. 

That sounds about right. If an Elf has a baby with a human it becomes human. The second children live shorter lives, but they evolve and that makes them stronger. This could be why he didn't think Cory would have learned about being immortal. 

[Ellawynn]

Hmm. I was with you until the whole "He wants to destroy the physical world to keep spirits from being corrupted from their purpose." The biggest hole there is that spirits depend on the physical world to exist - repeatedly throughout all the games it's said that spirits are mortal emotions made flesh, and Solas himself references this idea, even in that quote you gave about  hunger. And he lists fear and desire as some of the first Spirits to come into being - not "Emulation" or any sort of desire to mimic the Maker. And in the Fade itself, very little of it is original architecture - it's mostly hodge-podge shattered memories of real-world locations (Excepting, of course, places like the Crossroads, which the elves made themselves) It implies that the Fade is intrinsically linked to the physical world, and one cannot exist without the other - or atleast, the Fade cannot exist without the physical world, in the same way that your reflection in the mirror cannot exist without you. So, destroying the physical world would also likely destroy the spirits and the Fade as well. They're reflections of each other.

 

(Also, how does the fact that they used Titan's blood and magic mean the ancient elves were incapable of creativity or imagination? Like, we find ancient elven art everywhere across Thedas. We find codexes referencing them creating things, to the point of arguing and even killing each other in disagreement over what should be created. Obviously they were capable of imagination and creative thought. If anything, magic would allow even more indulgence of creativity, since now there's nothing holding you back.)

 

But, I think you're onto something here. It's been said back since Origins that demons try to break into the physical world and possess mages because they want to experience it for themselves, rather than just feed of the memories and reflections they were born from. And we have a fair bit of evidence suggesting that, pre-Veil, spirits could pass between realms at will. It leads me to believe that part of the reason why so many demons are running around, and why so many of them create abominations in their desperation to get into the physical world, is because the Veil blocks and corrupts them. 

[Cobra's_back]

Pretty interesting although I'm not sure if I want ancient elves to be spirits that have become humane and now want to destroy humans. Not really my favorite plottwist.

I wouldn't use the word humane. Spirits became ancient elves was my thought, and they don't see us as one of their kind even if we are a modern elf.

[Cobra's_back]

Hmm. I was with you until the whole "He wants to destroy the physical world to keep spirits from being corrupted from their purpose." The biggest hole there is that spirits depend on the physical world to exist - repeatedly throughout all the games it's said that spirits are mortal emotions made flesh, and Solas himself references this idea, even in that quote you gave about  hunger. And he lists fear and desire as some of the first Spirits to come into being - not "Emulation" or any sort of desire to mimic the Maker. So, destroying the physical world would also likely destroy the spirits and the Fade as well. They're reflections of each other.

 

(Also, how does the fact that they used Titan's blood and magic mean the ancient elves were incapable of creativity or imagination? Like, we find ancient elven art everywhere across Thedas. We find codexes referencing them creating things, to the point of arguing and even killing each other in disagreement over what should be created. Obviously they were capable of imagination and creative thought. If anything, magic would allow even more indulgence of creativity, since now there's nothing holding you back.)

 

But, I think you're onto something here. It's been said back since Origins that demons try to break into the physical world and possess mages because they want to experience it for themselves, rather than just feed of the memories and reflections they were born from. And we have a fair bit of evidence suggesting that, pre-Veil, spirits could pass between realms at will. It leads me to believe that part of the reason why so many demons are running around, and why so many of them create abominations in their desperation to get into the physical world, is because the Veil blocks and corrupts them. 

You are thinking the arts. I'm thinking science. You need science to build a bridge. They draw the bridge, and we use science to calculate the stresses.

 

The Elves and humans believe the spirits are the first children. The spirits are simple such as wisdom, love and faith. They may change around us. Solas' friend wisdom became a pride demon. 

[Ellawynn]

You are thinking the arts. I'm thinking science. You need science to build a bridge. They draw the bridge, and we use science to calculate the stresses.

 

...And? How does that mean they are incapable of creativity and original thought? Of changing or growing? They don't need to concern themselves with stress distribution on a bridge, true - but I'm guessing you don't have to concern yourself with making shelter and hunting animals every night like cavemen did. This doesn't make your life invalid, or make you lesser for not having to worry about such things. It doesn't make you "inorganic." It just means you're more advanced and can draw upon more resources which allow you to do away with such concerns. So it is with the ancient elves, only on a larger scale.

 

 

 

The Elves and humans believe the spirits are the first children. The spirits are simple such as wisdom, love and faith. They may change around us. Solas' friend wisdom became a pride demon. 

 

We know they change around us. We also know - demonstrably, not because some inaccurate Bible stand-in tells us - that spirits are born from mortal emotions, and the more mortal emotions, the more spirits. We also know - again, demonstrably - that the Fade reflects the physical world, and would be quite empty without it. 

 

There is a way to reconcile this. The spirits were the Maker's first children - and then they became mortal, or atleast physical, as Cole did. More spirits were born from the emotions they experienced, and so on and so forth. Both are right, but if one must be invalidated, I think we can safely say it's the idea that spirits are the Maker's first children. We have countless sources, even the ancient elven Fade expert, that spirits are born from the physical world. There's no side-stepping that.

 

I wouldn't use the word humane. Spirits became ancient elves was my thought, and they don't see us as one of their kind even if we are a modern elf.

 

We have a grand total of two ancient elves that tell us that - Solas and Abelas. We also have a grand total of two ancient elves that obviously disagree - Felassan and Flemythal. Perhaps we should refrain from generalizing their entire race because of the traits of a select few.

[Cobra's_back]

@Ellawynn: " This doesn't make your life invalid, or make you lesser for not having to worry about such things. It doesn't make you "inorganic." It just means you're more advanced and can draw upon more resources which allow you to do away with such concerns. So it is with the ancient elves, only on a larger scale."

 

Not invalid, but not more advance. The reason is because they don't know how to do it without magic which relies on the blood of Titans. Do I know how to build a bridge. Yes I do. That is engineering, and it doesn't require magic. Remember the library where we find a page from Varric's book. They picked it up from him in his dreams. The dreamers were held at a higher status, and how much of what they put together was what they saw in a dream.

 

@Ellawynn:"We have a grand total of two ancient elves that tell us that - Solas and Abelas. We also have a grand total of two ancient elves that obviously disagree - Felassan and Flemythal. Perhaps we should refrain from generalizing their entire race because of the traits of a select few."

 

Felassan never stated he was like a City elf or Dalish elf. He was originally planning to get the key. He changed his mind afterwards. That doesn't mean he thinks modern elves are ancient elves. 

 

I haven't seen one statement in The Mask Empire or the game that states Ancient Elves are the same as Dalish or City Elves. 

[Cobra's_back]

@Ellawynn:"There is a way to reconcile this. The spirits were the Maker's first children - and then they became mortal, or atleast physical, as Cole did. More spirits were born from the emotions they experienced, and so on and so forth. Both are right, but if one must be invalidated, I think we can safely say it's the idea that spirits are the Maker's first children. We have countless sources, even the ancient elven Fade expert, that spirits are born from the physical world. There's no side-stepping that."

 

Did they pick up the emotions from a primate? They don't say.