85 réponses à ce sujet

[Bhryaen]

If I had only one plea to make to the devs, this would be it... though it comes bundled with a host of others. I mean, yeah, a dwarf romance, let me see Orzammar again, lots I could add... but bringing back origins could add all of that.

 

Origins are unique to DA- something I think no other game has ever had. They were arguably DA's crowning achievement as a new rpg and gameworld. Even DA2 had a sorta kinda origin experience where you make your way to Kirkwall (though it was always the same regardless of a new character). Then DAI had only a different paragraph to read before entering the CC screen, plus a few War Room operations. It's not just the fact of having different origins I'm talking about. I mean bring back origins stories, encounters, NPCs, experiences- making your origin count for how the game plays out.

 

I'm also not talking about bringing back DAO (which would mean what?) I like DAI better for a number of other reasons (primarily I prefer the new game engine), but the origins element of DAO is dearly missed: starting off the game fully-immersed in one origin or another; having formative experiences during the main game and even side missions that reflect the origin; having a unique, game-altering experience when returning to the origin location later that other origins don't get and that reflect how you played the origin; having unique origin-based end-game choices like being able to get King Alistair/Queen Anora to support Orzammar against the darkspawn. It's not as if every possible origin in the DAverse has been fleshed out already. Hell, not even every possible Dust Town identity was explored.

 

Origins are the best way I've ever experienced to orient a player- whether a new player or a player who knows the lore inside and out- to their situation within the greater fabric of the many societies of the gameworld- in this case, Thedas. In DAO at least there were very endearing characters who are part of your life that help ground you as a character- Leske, Rica, Kalah, Gorim, Shianni, Merrill, Tamlen, Lily, Jowan (love 'im or hate 'im), Cullen (yep), Ser Gilmore, and the whole Cousland family. So many! I could imagine a humorous, raucous The Iron Bull type temporary companion for a qunari origin as well- or a fellow escaped Tal-Vashoth mage. You get to know those characters in a very personal way at the start, and along with so many other players I ended up feeling for them throughout the game even when doing unrelated (main plot or side mission) story material, wanting to return to them, wondering how they were faring or what happened to them... And then you do see them again! A number of them anyway (all due respects to the Cousland family and Ser Gilmore...) Even if, say, Gorim's return encounter was a bit brief, or Leske wasn't quite the same salroka anymore... what an impact those moments had on me! Those were definitely the most touching moments in DAO, having played the origin character for whom that moment would mean so much. Almost equally so were the moments you'd find those same origin characters if you didn't play their origin, finding a corpse in the carta cell next to Leske's, knowing that was what happened to your casteless hero because you chose to play a dwarf noble this time. All those instances of Gorim's Denerim noise pollution I only interrupted by being dwarf noble, having been in the thick of things with him from the get-go. Why, yes, in fact, I do go way back with him.

 

I'm not saying main story or side mission narratives- the ones any origin can and will experience- can't be endearing, memorable, impactful. I recall discussions on the old forum in which folks said sharing the Joining experience with Ser Jory and Daveth was moving (certainly was for me), and it was nice helping Kaitlyn get to Denerim or giving Owen inspiration to get out of his drunken stupor or getting to know Slim Couldry's life or uncovering Ruck's predicament. Loads of those... but they're not quite the same when they're everyone's story, no? (Actually Couldry is more of a class rather than race-based storyline encounter, but still...) It's the same principle as getting special reactions from the specific companions you've brought along- another game element that Bioware has been so uniquely good at: you get to experience the situations uniquely given how you've chosen to enter them. Except that origins are more foundational: they're different given how you choose to enter the game itself!

 

Origins are identity-based, not just encounter-based. Were you a cutthroat or a compassionate sort before joining the Wardens (or becoming a Herald, for that matter)? You don't just assume that. You demonstrate that with choices well before you're busy saving the world or fighting for your life. Head-canon is inevitable regardless of origins or not, but it gets sooo much more rich when you actually play through your own "pre-story." Origins let you be before you go do.

 

One of the biggest complaints about DAI has been that it was too long, too spread-out (sort of like they said about the Deep Roads in DAO which I liked). Origins are the perfect way to keep the same amount of content but package it differently: in order to get all those areas and encounters, you have to play through different origins. Will some people not want to play a qunari female to get that one interaction with Koomplaa the Crusher? Oh, well. Missing out then. I don't recall any DAO player explicitly wishing that they could play the dwarf noble origin as a Cousland, or the alienage origin as a casteless... OK, some wanted to be mage. There was even a mod for playing a Dalish mage- but even that was a unique experience specific to that origin. You sure didn't hear the plethora of all-human players whining that they didn't get to experience the unique dwarf commoner origin narrative. We were all quite happy with the unique experiences and content that the different origins gave us, segmented as they were. Even I didn't feel irked at not getting to know Rica with a Dalish origin or only seeing her in passing with the dwarf noble origin. Actually Rica's little "cameos" during those origins were excellent, tying together the various game timelines in a way that you can only fully appreciate if you've played through them all.

 

There've been some requests lately to make DA4 like GTA5's multi-protagonist. Ugh... and the request comes in a different context, but I can't help but compare it to the feel of different origins, playing very different identities through the same narrative separately. I wouldn't want to have multiple protagonists in a single game timeline, but with origins you do get to have very different identities within whatever DA4's narrative would be.

 

Bringing back origins isn't a small request, I know. It means a fairly weighty change to the structure of DA4's game narrative and gameplay. But please??? You can even downplay all my other demands. Just gimme back the origins you endeared me to in DAO!

[XEternalXDreamsX]

It was nice for personal development of the protagonist before we got to Ostagar. Basically, I had developed my character's personality (whether ruthless, diplomatic, stoic, or a combination) in the origin so the prologue of Ostagar further developed him before the actual save-the-world quest started in the game. Later, I met people from the origin so it felt like a tight-knit story.

Had we all started with the same cinematic entrance and dropped in Ostagar.. it wouldn't feel as personal. It helped with replay ability.

I would definitely be cool with it even if it only 5-10 minutes to develop your character.

[Knight of Dane]

It was nice for personal development of the protagonist before we got to Ostagar. Basically, I had developed my character's personality (whether ruthless, diplomatic, stoic, or a combination) in the origin so the prologue of Ostagar further developed him before the actual save-the-world quest started in the game. Later, I met people from the origin so it felt like a tight-knit story.

Had we all started with the same cinematic entrance and dropped in Ostagar.. it wouldn't feel as personal. It helped with replay ability.

I would definitely be cool with it even if it only 5-10 minutes to develop your character.

 

Completly agree. The small backgroudn stories in Inquisition were a nice touch, but they never felt satisfying. I also felt that way about Shepard's backgrounds in Mass Effect. Some guy called Tombs turns up in a bunker on a random planet and goes "Oh Hi Shep, remember me?" and Shepard can only go "Whut?"

[vertigomez]

The lack of origin story wouldn't be such a downer if we had some kind of family connection. I felt connected to Hawke's family... Brosca, Tabris, Aeducan... if we had some kind of significant connection to our background, to our past, I wouldn't be fussed at not having actual playable origins. I think dwarven Inquisitors suffered the most from this, since we had such a brilliant introduction to Carta life in DAO. Compared to that, Cadash's experience seems sorta... lackluster.

Frankly, headcanon only goes so far. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a blank slate MMO protagonist. If I wanted to make it all up in my head, I'd write a fanfic.

[Bhryaen]

The lack of origin story wouldn't be such a downer if we had some kind of family connection. I felt connected to Hawke's family... Brosca, Tabris, Aeducan... if we had some kind of significant connection to our background, to our past, I wouldn't be fussed at not having actual playable origins. I think dwarven Inquisitors suffered the most from this, since we had such a brilliant introduction to Carta life in DAO. Compared to that, Cadash's experience seems sorta... lackluster.

Frankly, headcanon only goes so far. I don't want to feel like I'm playing a blank slate MMO protagonist. If I wanted to make it all up in my head, I'd write a fanfic.

But there's something great about not just saying Rica's your sis after you're already a Herald, but also knowing her before everything goes south. In DAO you actually have a Brosca home, and everyone's just doing their thing as they would regardless of a blight- with all the drama and events associated with that life- and then it gets interrupted in a "game-changer" type of way. That's why I ended up feeling for Rica so much: for a time it was just she and I... and ol' lush mum... and Leske if he stops leering. Those were experiences of my life I wouldn't have had if they had just had Rica walk up and say, "Remember back in Dust Town?" when there was no back-in-Dust-Town experience. "Oh, yeah, good times, right?" "Uh, no... didn't you read the Codex on Dust Town?" "Oh, right. I'll do that right away then get back to you..." "Ahem, just read the dialog wheel. All you need to know." Ya know? Playable origins are what made it feel truly epic.

 

It's like the difference between method acting and the Stanislavsky approach- the latter has you just extrapolate from your own experiences regardless of the portrayal you're doing- showing sadness about some grave tragedy in the story by recalling some sad event IRL like when you lost your kitten- whereas method acting has actors gaining weight for parts, learning martial arts, live in a slum or mansion for a while, live in a log cabin with few amenities, etc., so that they actually live the role and convey it in their performance. (I may have gotten those clarified wrong, but you get the idea.) I want to live my origin, not just presume it.

[BumminDork]

Seeing how (and this is me speculating because of the ending) the Inquisitor and follows want someone that Solas does not know, I think that should seriously set the stage for origins. If that's not the best time to add one I don't know what is you basically have some unknown nobody, just throwing them in and making them important would kinda make no sense to me . . . wait isn't that what they did in . . . anyway

 

I agree that even 5-10 minutes of just a good backstory would please me since I also developed my character from the backstory.

[XEternalXDreamsX]

They could have easily added the Temple of Sacred Ashes summit to the introduction scene. They could have the person walking up to it and begin CC in the light (the fade distorted the CC lighting IMO). After that, your Inquisitor enters the temple and you could have conversations with NPCs react to your race, class, or reasoning for being at the summit upon other things. Toward the end, you hear ruckus going on from your position with your Inquisitor and your character sprints to the doors and black-out then continue with original introduction. I'm pretty sure Nightmare didn't give a crap about what you did before entering the room.

Maybe have race specific quest like a Dwarf Inquisitor meeting a group of his Carta outside the Bandit occupied Fort in the Hinterlands. They ask for his help (which he could deny and it continue as any other race with the take down of the Carta). Once the Fort has been taken over, speak to him/her to receive bonus experience or something of the sort. A follow up War Table mission to get a "profit" (item, schematic, gold) since it would be easier to transport Lyrium from the nearby dwarven occupied Valammar (which could be an alternate outcome). Little things like that for each race sprinkled through out the game would have been a nice touch. It's a good game, though.

[Mr_Q]

Completely agree. They need to come back IMO. 

[Ash Wind]

No. You press a button, and something awesome happens...

 

lol

 

Kidding. I'd love a deeper origin, but don't think BW's going back there.

[ShadowLordXII]

Agreed.

 

DA4 needs the return of Origins in a meaningful fashion.

[Bhryaen]

I'd love a deeper origin, but don't think BW's going back there.

Well, if they try to out-Witcher Witcher- or out-Skyrim Skryim- they're just going to look like Witcher/Skyrim wannabes. If they do what DA does best and develop what DA has as a unique game mechanic over all those others, they'll knock another one out of the park...

[Cute Nug]

I would love one last short DAI DLC to add origins. Might have to finally change everyone showing up in merc armor though.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

No thank you. I much prefer a protagonist's background be more of a blank slate than everything explicitly established. 

[Bhryaen]

No thank you. I much prefer a protagonist's background be more of a blank slate than everything explicitly established. 

People said this with the mage origin in DAO as well- that they liked the lack of a mention of the story of how they came to be in the Tower, able to concoct any number of head-canon scenarios as to how they first got discovered as a mage and were brought there. The thing is- there was still an origin story, no? And it was quite explicit. That is, you still had a life to live prior to events going sour and you ending up in the Wardens. You got to experience first-hand what it's like to live as a Circle Mage and got to know Jowan as the guy who's been pestering you since your unknown arrival. Or are you saying that you want even that gone... i.e., be just like an MMO character (or BG, NWN, etc.) with nothing at all, just a base character? In that case, that's not what DA has had thus far. Even DAI makes a half-hearted attempt to give some unique origin to your character at inception.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

People said this with the mage origin in DAO as well- that they liked the lack of a mention of the story of how they came to be in the Tower, able to concoct any number of head-canon scenarios as to how they first got discovered as a mage and were brought there. The thing is- there was still an origin story, no? And it was quite explicit. That is, you still had a life to live prior to events going sour and you ending up in the Wardens. You got to experience first-hand what it's like to live as a Circle Mage and got to know Jowan as the guy who's been pestering you since your unknown arrival. Or are you saying that you want even that gone... i.e., be just like an MMO character (or BG, NWN, etc.) with nothing at all, just a base character? In that case, that's not what DA has had thus far. Even DAI makes a half-hearted attempt to give some unique origin to your character at inception.

The Circle Origin established plenty. It established you were there from an age young enough to not remember your life before that, it established your relationships with the people in he Circle like the First Enchanter thus establishing you have a positive relationship with him, etc.

I'd rather have what we had with the Inquisitor than what we had with the Warden, though a pure blank slate would be great as well. They say the protagonist is 'your' character, so I'd like that to actually be the case rather than establishing their character for you and/or assuming how you'd play 'your' character. 

 

Besides, having an origin comes with its own set of problems. The main being that it means your background won't be able to be references as much throughout the rest of the game accoprding to David Gaider I believe. The only reason Origins was as good as it was(which wasn't very) is most likely because we were a silent protagonist.

[actionhero112]

I want a real, in game connection with my character to the world rather than sparsely located race related content.

 

Origins was fantastic in that regard. Every origin had this unique tie in to story that was amazing. It went a long way to establishing game tone, and character voice. 

 

The inquisitor is bland. I usually make up how they act, because their actual lines are beige and uninteresting, like a certain pajama. 

[Ash Wind]

Well, if they try to out-Witcher Witcher- or out-Skyrim Skryim- they're just going to look like Witcher/Skyrim wannabes. If they do what DA does best and develop what DA has as a unique game mechanic over all those others, they'll knock another one out of the park...

I'd agree, and that's part of the current dev problem. Since DAO, after there was a change in the game's leadership, they've tried to create a ME styled protag, that went down in flames... then they've tried to be skyrim.... mixed results... they've tried to be anything but DAO because they don't want to admit DAO was successful. So, I doubt we'll see DAO type-origins anytime soon.

[Bhryaen]

The Circle Origin established plenty. It established you were there from an age young enough to not remember your life before that, it established your relationships with the people in he Circle like the First Enchanter thus establishing you have a positive relationship with him, etc.

I'd rather have what we had with the Inquisitor than what we had with the Warden, though a pure blank slate would be great as well. They say the protagonist is 'your' character, so I'd like that to actually be the case rather than establishing their character for you and/or assuming how you'd play 'your' character. 

 

Besides, having an origin comes with its own set of problems. The main being that it means your background won't be able to be references as much throughout the rest of the game accoprding to David Gaider I believe. The only reason Origins was as good as it was(which wasn't very) is most likely because we were a silent protagonist.

I certainly didn't get the whole "positive relationship with the First Enchanter" thingy. Irving was a fairly tolerant character, possibly used to your smarting off, but you could be quite rude with him regardless. You could also be dismissive with Jowan and later outright kill him. Or have different relationships. The thing people liked was the greater vagueness of the mage backstory, as I said. And that really did apply in every origin, since it's not clear exactly what life you had prior to those opening moments in the Aeducan palace or what exactly you did as Beraht's henchman in the dwarf commoner origin- and again you could choose various paths to show what kind of character you had. In the dwarf commoner origin you could completely ignore your sister and mother and tell Leske you're ready for the next kill or go through all the conversations with your family compassionately and be averse to violence when discussing the next job with Leske- or be nice to sis, mean to mom, and so-so with Leske- all options that could reflect your own head-canon. DAO wasn't quite as "establishing your character for you" as you seem to portray it, only establishing certain base parameters for your character's pre-Warden experiences.

 

And in the main game you do exactly the same sort of thing as you do in the origin with your choices- establish your character as you please. So the origins weren't any more set-in-stone than the main story. It's just that an origin lets you get a feel for the character you're making generally prior to taking them into the main game, and a qualitative immersion in game lore specific to your character choice comes with it.

 

I don't know what Gaider comment you're referencing (or the context of his statement(s)), but I don't see why they couldn't even have later-game origin-specific content as well, like a castle you have to get into, but each origin has a different way to get into it based on their origin contacts or tendencies- like a human noble getting ballistas, a dwarf knowing an underground entrance, a Dalish finding a secret passage, a qunari having contacts to sneak you in- that sort of thing. You'd still have to get in regardless and still have the same "inside the castle" sequence, but you'd have different paths to it. Maybe not the best idea, but something along those lines. Short of that they did a fantastic job in DAO of later game references to your origin- at least with non-Cousland origins- particularly the "return" experience. You get back to Orzammar as a Duster to hear all sorts of snide remarks from wandering NPCs, and they had a whole sequence regarding your sister and such. So whatever reservations Gaider may have had about origin-references, they pulled it off brilliantly.

 

You say you didn't like DAO though, so these sorts of considerations may be lost on you. There are games without origins... like everything short of DA, in fact. I admit, I was an avid NWN player for years, as nowhere as the protagonist sprang from (though I played a lot of NWN online in roleplay servers where you were expected to roleplay an origin story). But then I played DAO... Instilled a qualitative standard that I certainly won't willingly part with.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

You say you didn't like DAO though, so these sorts of considerations may be lost on you. There are games without origins... like everything short of DA, in fact. I admit, I was an avid NWN player for years, as nowhere as the protagonist sprang from (though I played a lot of NWN online in roleplay servers where you were expected to roleplay an origin story). But then I played DAO... Instilled a qualitative standard that I certainly won't willingly part with.

When did I say I didn't like Dragon Age: Origins? 

[Meredydd]

Yes please. Bring back proper and PLAYABLE origin stories in DA4. I hated the wartable missions associated with your PCs backstory. It was terribly impersonal.

[Meredydd]

Well, if they try to out-Witcher Witcher- or out-Skyrim Skryim- they're just going to look like Witcher/Skyrim wannabes. If they do what DA does best and develop what DA has as a unique game mechanic over all those others, they'll knock another one out of the park...

I agree. After Origins, Bioware didn't seem to know what to do with the Dragon Age franchise. They tried to go in a new direction with DA2, even though no one asked them to. Fans wanted DA:O continued, not something completely different.  Then with DA:I, Bioware said they were going back to an Origins type of game (which was a complete lie). They basically ignored everything they achieved with DA:O and took inspiration from Skyrim, which they then morphed with the best aspects of DA:2 to create DA:Inquisition. Fans are STILL asking for a return to an Origins type of game, because that's what Dragon Age should be like. It should not be like Skyrim. It should not be like Mass Effect. It should not be like The Witcher. Even though I love all those games, Dragon Age needs to be unique and it must be able to stand on it's own.

[CoM Solaufein]

The Origins was a nice uniqueness of the first game. With the exception of the mage, I tried out all origin stories. Bringing it back would be nice.

[Absafraginlootly]

Origins and combat tactics are the only two reasons that DAI didn't manage to supplant DAO as my favourate Dragon Age game.

 

I love origins. They provided the ability to really roleplay who your character was before they were thrust into whatever drama the main plot is and in my mind they coloured everything that followed for that character. Having different beginnings created so much replay value.

 

Even if they don't bring back multiple origin/beginnings I hope they bring back the structure that origins had:

 

Introduction/Disaster/Aftermath

 

Investigating elven ruins/Tamlen touches mirror/search for tamlen

Taking up your first command/Brother is murdered/Banished to Deeproads

Hosting allies force/Betrayed and attacked/Defend home and find family

Graduate from apprentice to mage/Jowan is going to be made tranquil/Find his Vial

etc.

 

Both DAI and DA2 start with the aftermath - which makes for a less immersive beginning for me.

 

Instead of:

 

Preparing supplies and fellow villages(or not) for evacution/Darkspawn Attack/ Flee Lothering

 

You just get: Flee lothering. No establishing who your character is, no getting-to-know your soon to be dead sibling.

 

And instead of:

 

Attending conclave for -insert background reason-/wander down hall, everything goes black huge explosion/Wakeup in interrogation try to seal breach

 

You just get: Wakeup in interrogation try to seal breach

 

I really hope they bring back a proper beginning that lets you establish who your character was before everything went to ****, you don't even need multiple beginnings/origins for that (though of course I'd love if we got that too.)

[GoldenGail3]

I don't think they'll do it, becuase they want to try something 'new' every time. Just go back to bloody origins. Everyone will like you again.

[KaiserShep]

I don't think they'll do it, becuase they want to try something 'new' every time. Just go back to bloody origins. Everyone will like you again.

 

I'm more inclined to think that what keeps them from doing it is that not every story may necessarily be well-suited for it, and the multiple class/race options may make some backstories irrelevant. The thing that tied all of the origins together in DA:O was Duncan looking for a recruit to become a Warden and stop the Blight, but Inquisition doesn't really have anything like that. Most of the characters have no serious connection to the mage/templar conflict. Most are just spying on the people there, but don't have any stronger motivation beyond that. They weren't driven from their former lives because of some great calamity or betrayal. The only exception to this is the human mage, who actually had to flee for his/her life from the Ostwick Circle when it rebelled. 

 

Similarly to DA:O, DA4 could share similarities to DA:O in having the new PC be whoever what's left of the Inquisition seeks to recruit to do whatever in Tevinter, but who knows.