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In hindsight, Vivienne is awesome


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#1
phishface

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For a long time, I shared the common view that Vivienne was poisonous character with no depth. Everything's just the Game with her, and she only cares about herself. But having done a playthrough with her constantly in the party, I've realised she's complex, very useful, and usually right. Here's a few reasons why:

 

1. This bit of dialogue between her and Cole gives a poignant insight into how she became what she is::

  • Cole: Stepping into the parlor, hem of my gown snagged, no, adjust before I go in, must look perfect.
  • Vivienne: My dear, your pet is speaking again. Do silence it.
  • Cole: Voices inside. Marquis Alphonse.
  • Cole: "I do hope Duke Bastien puts out the lights before he touches her. But then, she must disappear in the dark."

Then we learn how she got back at him:

  • Cole: Gown tight between my fingers, cold all over. Unacceptable. Wheels turn, strings pull.
  • Cole: He hurt you. You left a letter, let out a lie so he would do something foolish against the Inquisition. A trap.
  • Vivienne: Inquisitor, as your demon lacks manners, perhaps you could get Solas to train it.

So Vivienne set up the offensive noble who appears during her recruitment. Good.

 

2. She is awesome in battle. In my experience, Vivienne is the strongest follower you can have.

 

3. She gets abuse all the time, and deals with it in good humour. You get the impression her whole life has been like this. And her dialogue with Sera is some of the funniest in the game.

 

4. She totally has the measure of Fen'harel:

  • Solas: Tell me, Enchanter. Do you even bother to explore the Fade in your dreams?
  • Vivienne: I prefer to explore the world I actually live in.
  • Solas: Pity. You could be much more powerful if you ventured outside your narrow preconceptions.
  • Vivienne: Ah, the temptation to leave the path. You sound like a pride demon.
  • Solas: Enchanter, any pride demon you met would just walk away, shaking its head and laughing uncontrollably.
  • Vivienne: Oh darling, more than one already has.

Also:

  • Vivienne: I don't know what to make of Solas. So much knowledge and so little personal history... I find that... peculiar, don't you?

Also:

  • Vivienne: So, apostate. If the Circle is such a failure, what would be your solution? Would you have your fellow mages live among the people, unguarded, unwatched?
  • Solas: Yes.
  • Vivienne: And when they became possessed, or use their power to harm?
  • Solas: I would kill them. Magic is more elegant than a blade or a bow, but a murderer remains a murderer.
  • Vivienne: So you alone would pass judgment, repay murder with murder, or do we open this up to mobs and vigilantes? If you're going to dispense judgment upon violent mages yourself, you'll need eternal life and omniscience. If only there were individuals dedicated to finding and eliminating such criminals. Perhaps they might help?
  • Solas: I am certain they would. Until black and white distinctions perverted their simple minds.

5. She's a tough old bird. The thing about Vivienne is that she's always self-sufficient, and seems always to have needed to be. Witness her reaction to Bastien's death.

 

6. She's all about the reality of things. She's pragmatic, and she's usually right. What works is good. Ideology is dangerous. She trusts no-one, and if there's one thing we learn in DAI, it's that no-one can be trusted.

 

Anyway, I think it's often overlooked that she's a complex, very well-written, and quite symapthetic character. Her vanity is explained and understandable, but beneath it is wisdom.


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#2
sandalisthemaker

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In hindsight?

 

She's awesome at first glance.

 

FABULOUS too.


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#3
Potato Cat

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Vivienne's the best. She's my all time favourite character in the franchise and genuinely one of my favourite characters in general.


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#4
Guest_Keeva_*

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I adore her! She even has a caring side I never really noticed until Trespasser. She was comforting me about Solas and when I romanced Bull, she said I deserved happiness.


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#5
drosophila

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She grew on me, but now I love her.

#6
MattH

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Vivienne is possibly my favourite dragon age character. While the ball was dropped a few times by the devs not using her properly in the story, as a character she was marvellous.
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#7
thesuperdarkone2

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Nope, she's an elitist, myopic snob who acts friendly but is really only caring about herself. The trespasser endings and the fact that she's a tyrant if she's Divine pretty much prove why she's my most hated companion in the entire series.


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#8
thats1evildude

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She's a marvelous woman, truly.



#9
Lumix19

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She's ok, if we were using the DA2 system she'd probably be my rival but that doesn't mean I don't respect and like her.
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#10
Qun00

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Uhh... those examples confirm exactly what she seems like.

Cole's insight is a description of Orlesian shallow concerns, which is nothing to sympathise with.
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#11
Vilio1

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Vivienne is by far my least favourite character in the whole series. She isn't even well written in my opinion, railroading all the conversations so that your character always "wins" is not the sign of quality writing.

#12
devSin

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Vivienne is perfection.

I always suspected it, but by the time we confronted Fiona I was sure of it.
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#13
Potato Cat

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Uhh... those examples confirm exactly what she seems like.

Cole's insight is a description of Orlesian shallow concerns, which is nothing to sympathise with.

I, however, think it's very easy to sympathise and indeed empathise with someone who is socially humiliated and deeply insulted by cruel words. Particularly when those words concern your romantic life and also insult you on grounds of race and other ways in which your are perceived as 'different'. And I think it's always inspiring when someone is able to turn these negatives into positives.


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#14
sandalisthemaker

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Nope, she's an elitist, myopic snob who acts friendly but is really only caring about herself. The trespasser endings and the fact that she's a tyrant if she's Divine pretty much prove why she's my most hated companion in the entire series.

 

She cared about Bastien

 

She cared about what happened to the Tranquil.

 

She cares about Cole

 

She cares about Iron Bull

 

She cares about my Inquisitor

 

She even threw the mages a bone and allowed for the College to continue to exist if she's Divine.

 

She doesn't always show it, and sometimes she even denies it, because too much emotion equals weakness in her eyes.  But it is there deep down.

 

"I *always* have time for you, my Darling."  -Vivienne


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#15
ShadowLordXII

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meh, she's okay.


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#16
Qun00

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I, however, think it's very easy to sympathise and indeed empathise with someone who is socially humiliated and deeply insulted by cruel words. Particularly when those words concern your romantic life and also insult you on grounds of race and other ways in which your are perceived as 'different'. And I think it's always inspiring when someone is able to turn these negatives into positives.


Every Orlesian deals with that sort of thing in their struggle to rise in social status. Their rivals will attack in every way possible.

That doesn't mean she was some pariah. And race, really? Now you really are seeing what you want to see.

Thedas may judge you for the shape of your ears but skin color has never been an issue.

#17
Xilizhra

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She cared about Bastien

 

She cared about what happened to the Tranquil.

 

She cares about Cole

 

She cares about Iron Bull

 

She cares about my Inquisitor

 

She even threw the mages a bone and allowed for the College to continue to exist if she's Divine.

 

She doesn't always show it, and sometimes she even denies it, because too much emotion equals weakness in her eyes.  But it is there deep down.

 

"I *always* have time for you, my Darling."  -Vivienne

None of that is remotely reliable except for the one about Cole, maybe. And then she has to forget he's a spirit to care about him at all.


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#18
Alejandrawrr

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I still don't really get the Cole quotes... What happened?

An obvious point now, but that Solas exchange is interesting knowing that his name is literally pride. And of course, all the other dimensions of that conversation. I found his answers odd at the time, and now it makes sense knowing what he is, that his take would be along the lines of "I have the high ground and/or right to pass judgment on people".

At any rate, I always liked her as a character. I can find a character to be a ******/*******/whatever and still appreciate them as a character, my only complaint will echo MattH in that she (+ a few other companions) wasn't utilized well enough and/or faded into the background shortly after her recruitment.



#19
Korva

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I really wanted to like her, but overall found her to be a huge disappointment who is never used in ways that make sense in the story, never gets to show her strong or useful side, and (much like Solas) "wins" by writer's fiat when the player disagrees with her. And I just can't connect with her at all because she's always "playing the Game".

 

That said, she clearly is smart and has some choice words for Solas and Fiona.


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#20
Barquiel

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I dislike her, but at least she isn't a boring character.

Her narrow mindeness and hypocrisy are really irritating. She also comes across as incredibly petty and childish for someone who is supposed to be a "master" of the game (I am not sure if this was intentional on the part of the writers). The few insights into orlesian politics and the circle system she does offer are rather flippant or downright wrong. And if you don’t agree with her views she throws a fit by...moving furniture .
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#21
sandalisthemaker

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I still don't really get the Cole quotes... What happened?
 

 

Cole:  "Voices inside. Marquis Alphonse."  (The guy who tries to duel the Inquisitor at Vivienne's party, and whom she subsequently freezes in place,              and possibly kills)

 

Cole (Speaking Alphonse's words): "I do hope Duke Bastien puts out the lights before he touches her" (Vivienne's relationship with Bastien seems to             disgust him).

 

Cole (Continuing to speak Alphonse's words): "But then, she must disappear in the dark." (A jab at her dark skin). 

 

Cole:  "Gown tight between my fingers. Cold all over." (She is upset and offended by what Alphonse said) 

 

Cole: "Unacceptable. Wheels turn. Strings pull." (She arranged for Alphonse to be at her party and manipulated him through a letter to get him to                 duel the Inquisitor so that she could do what she did and publicly humiliate Alphonse for what he said about her). 


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#22
Dabrikishaw

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I can see Vivienne is well written. That doesn't mean I have to like her but again that's just how well written she is.


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#23
Boost32

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Vivienne is one of the best characters in the franchise to me.
I agree with everything she says, she is competent (a rare trait in Dragon Age), she can become a real friend, one of the few characters who will ask how you are and show concern, etc.
She will always be the Divine to me.
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#24
Mrs_Stick

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I don't care how many times I have tried to get past my first impression I still don't care for her. But glad others like her.
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#25
CredulousAlloy

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"Daaarling, it's spa day!"

 

I adore her. She's powerful, confident, skilled (and she knows it), is master of the withering put-down, and has one of the best designs I've ever seen. Her banter with most companions is amazing (I sometimes pull up a video of the Viv/Sera banter and just bask in the venom pouring forth). I love her "Darling" and "My dear" verbal tics, her acid wit, and her uncompromising belief in what she thinks is right. I'd probably hate her in real life, but as I've often said, great characters don't always have to be likeable. I don't agree with some of her actions (for example, being a constant b***h to Blackwall even before the reveal) but having dug a little deeper than the intimidating ice queen persona she cultivates, I feel I have a better understanding of why she's the way she is. I just wish she'd been given more importance in the overall story.

 

Apart from anything else, she gives the best "Are you ******* kidding me" looks. *points to avatar*


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