1041 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

A sword is a tool just as magic is a tool. It does not matter who wields it mage or not. It depends on what the person chooses to do with what they wield.

 

A Mage could burn down a village. A Swordsman or any one without magic can do the same. A Mage can make a deal with a demon as can any non-mage.

 

Just because a Mage has the power do such terrible things does not mean all mages do. Just as a swordsman. A swordsman has the strength and skill to do terrible things but not all do.

 

If Mages were as bad as Vivienne makes them out to be, Thedas would be over run with demons. Just because one mage summons a demon and causes chaos does not mean all mages are bad.

 

If a man with a sword creates havoc you don't see them all locked away in some Tower on the off chance chaos like that wont happen again.

 

While a mage can create chaos a man with a sword can do just as much. The difference is the swordsman route will take longer.

 

One is not more dangerous then other. They can be just as dangerous.

Find me an eight year old, non-magical boy who destroyed one of a nation's largest towns by himself without even meaning to and then I will agree that a sword is just as dangerous as magic.

 

 

[The Baconer]

College exists in all endings, free mages achieved. Now let's shut up about it as we leave for Thedas' better half.

[sandalisthemaker]

Huh, another thread unrelated to the Mage-Templar war has become another thread about the Mage-Templar war.

 

I think we need to make a law for it at this point.

 

What do you mean?

 

Vivienne has amazing dialogue pertaining to the mage/templar war.  That's what makes her so polarizing.  

 

This was inevitable. 

[Boost32]

College exists in all endings, free mages achieved. Now let's shut up about it as we leave for Thedas' better half.

The amount of free mages change although.

And we are going to evinter, its the worst side of Thedas. The is best Nevarra.

[Jaison1986]

If the last two thousand years of human history are not enough, you'd think the Hinterlands would be.

Exactly how large does the pile of corpses have to be before we finally admit they can't watch themselves?

Do we need a Super-Blight?

 

 

 

 

You can't benefit every single individual, it's literally impossible.

 

 

 

Free food, education, clothing, luxurious accomodations, protection, etc.

Really, they had higher standards of living than most of Thedas. They gained a LOT from it.

 

 

 

 

First, militaries can be reasoned with. it's why not every army is a group of marauders.

 

Second, if militaries couldn't be reasoned with, given that the mages are as powerful as an army, they couldn't be reasoned with either.

 

Third, given that we are given no information about the day to day functioning of this College, you have no basis to claim that "mundanes keep living their lives"

 

Fourth, this College has a timespan of two years at most. Such a short time period is not enough to properly evaluate its efficiency.

 

Fifth, what if the only way Vivienne and her like minded mages can be benefitted is the course of action they took. Who are you tell them they are wrong?

 

 

 

 

So, now you are outright stating that it's ok for you to force your viewpoint on everyone else because you are right and anyone who disagrees is wrong.

That is tyranny.

 

 

 

Their Order was formed as a response to mages enslaving anyone who did not have magic for over a thousand years.

They are very much trying to protect people's freedoms.

 

The last two thousand years were of Tevinter rule. The mages of the south are a different culture. Not a fair argument.

What happened in the Hinterlands was during a time of war and chaos. Barely fair neither. Now that stability was restored, the real probation for the mages begin. Maybe you should try not to jump the gun on your assumptions.

 

And that free food and education also came with constant threat of violence, rape and murder. Or would YOU be confortable living a life of confort that came at the cost of being ocasionally beaten or raped? Something tells me you wouldn't find it very appealing.

 

First and second: See Asunder. The templars defied the very Divine. They could not be reasoned with. Other militaries could be talked to, but the templars couldn't.

 

Third: You have no proof that it isn't working neither. This is just a circular argument.

 

Fifth: Depends on the benefits they wanted. And knowing Vivienne, it was likely a "I'm not in charge!" complaint.

 

A tyrant that wants to give freedom to the people. Such terrible person I am.

 

That response to mage enslavement is from thousands of years ago. There is this one thing called "moving on".

[Dabrikishaw]

What do you mean?

 

Vivienne has amazing dialogue pertaining to the mage/templar war.  That's what makes her so polarizing.  

 

This was inevitable. 

This thread was created with the goal of making other people understand that Vivienne is capable of empathy, using examples that really weren't about the Mage-Templar war. Some time later, it just turned into an entirely different topic.

 

If you still disagree with me, okay. This doesn't need to drag on into a long conversation.

[The Baconer]

The amount of free mages change although.

 

I would assume.

 

 

And we are going to Tevinter, its the worst side of Thedas.

 

No, the better side. I'll take birthplace of human civilization and the Chantry over Oouurghlay and Ferelden Irrelevantopolis. 

[Boost32]

I would assume.

 

 

 

No, the better side. I'll take birthplace of human civilization and the Chantry over Oouurghlay and Ferelden Irrelevantopolis. 

The birth of the Chantry is Orlais although.

I will never understand people facination with Tevinter. Instead of havng cruel mudane nobles they have cruel mages nobles. Oh well, lets see what the future reserves for this franchise.

[MisterJB]

The last two thousand years were of Tevinter rule. The mages of the south are a different culture. Not a fair argument.

Yeah, I am actually referring about the two thousand years of competition between normal people and mages, reflected in Tevinter, qunari, Circle, Rivain, Abominations, Inquisition, Corypheus, Meredith, Evanuris, etc, etc and more etc all of which point that the existence of a group of people with the ability to kill others with their minds fundamentally alters interaction on a personal, political, economical, religious and many more levels.

Basically, I do not believe that a College will now lead to peace and harmony.

What happened in the Hinterlands was during a time of war and chaos. Barely fair neither. Now that stability was restored, the real probation for the mages begin. Maybe you should try not to jump the gun on your assumptions.

 

Systems are judged for how they react to crysis not for how they operate when everything is at their best. 

What you are basically saying is "The mages might police themselves but only if they don't have good reasons not to"

That means they can't police themselves.

 

And that free food and education also came with constant threat of violence, rape and murder. Or would YOU be confortable living a life of confort that came at the cost of being ocasionally beaten or raped? Something tells me you wouldn't find it very appealing.

Something tells me people are beaten or raped outside of Circles by people who are not Templars. Except they can also starve, freeze, sicken, be exploited, killed by bandits,Darkspawn, etc.

Unlike mages.

 

First and second: See Asunder. The templars defied the very Divine. They could not be reasoned with. Other militaries could be talked to, but the templars couldn't.

 

Except you reason with them in Inquisition.

And hey, the mages defied the Divine too.

 

Third: You have no proof that it isn't working neither. This is just a circular argument.

Except the argument was that you couldn't claim that "mundanes were left alone" because we were never told. I never claimed they weren't left alone.

Thus I won.

 

Fifth: Depends on the benefits they wanted. And knowing Vivienne, it was likely a "I'm not in charge!" complaint.

 

A tyrant that wants to give freedom to the people. Such terrible person I am.

 

I can't believe I actually have to say it outloud but you do not get to decide what is best for the world.

I myself would have no interest whatsoever in your notion of "freedom". One reason would be while mages might be free to, normal people wouldn't be free from.

 

Such as, free from being burned alive whenever a mage has a fit.

 

That response to mage enslavement is from thousands of years ago. There is this one thing called "moving on".

The Black Death happened a thousand years ago. Not sure why we shouldn't just move on and release plagues on our cities.

 

[MisterJB]

By the way, no one has answered this question yet:

How high does the pile of corpses have to be before we could bring back the Circles?

[Xilizhra]

By the way, no one has answered this question yet:

How high does the pile of corpses have to be before we could bring back the Circles?

Higher than the zero left by the College thus far.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Higher than the zero left by the College thus far.

Wonder how pro Templars reacted to the fact that the free college didn't cause abominations or blood mages.

[sandalisthemaker]

Wonder how pro Templars reacted to the fact that the free college didn't cause abominations or blood mages.

 

Yet.

 

This is Dragon Age, so the probability is quite high. 

[The Baconer]

The birth of the Chantry is Orlais although.

 

Tevinter is the first state to take on Andrastianism as its official religion. It remains the less-worse version of the Chantry today.

 

 

I will never understand people facination with Tevinter. Instead of havng cruel mudane nobles they have cruel mages nobles. Oh well, lets see what the future reserves for this franchise.

 

It's like watching the kiddy-league vs the World Series. You know a ball in Tevinter will come with a real light show, as opposed to a bunch of hacks who are so meek and impotent that hiding behind masks is their most defining characteristic.

[Xilizhra]

Yet.

 

This is Dragon Age, so the probability is quite high. 

Did your precious Vivienne not allow the College to exist anyway?

[MisterJB]

Wonder how pro Templars reacted to the fact that the free college didn't cause abominations or blood mages.

I don't know. How did you react to the fact that the return of the Circle didn't cause mass murder and Tranquility?

[sandalisthemaker]

Did your precious Vivienne not allow the College to exist anyway?

 

Yes. Absolutely.  She is quite magnanimous and awesome as the thread title shows.

 

But I'm sure the writers wanting a consistent world state for the next game was also a factor here.

[Vit246]

By the way, no one has answered this question yet:

How high does the pile of corpses have to be before we could bring back the Circles?

 

Did the previous Circles not have a high pile of corpses?

[sandalisthemaker]

Did the previous Circles not have a high pile of corpses over the course of over 900 years?

 

Uldred's foolishness resulted in the highest pile.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Uldred's foolishness resulted in the highest pile.

Read the magebane shield description

[ModernAcademic]

College exists in all endings, free mages achieved. Now let's shut up about it as we leave for Thedas' better half.

 

You know, this is the kind of thing in Bioware games that makes me feel as though none of the player's choices matter in the long term AT ALL.

 

Add to this the fact that in most Origins dialogs, each character you talk to answers to you in pretty much the same way, regardless of your line of choice. There are only superficial changes between the answers, such as a mere rephrasing of the same argument (that usually consists of either yes or no).

In general, you have a story that plays out exactly the same way in every playthrough, with a protagonist whose choices carry no weight in reshaping the world.

 

In the end, what the Warden did for Ferelden is irrelevant. The general plot will be the same, regardless of outcome: someone becomes Warden and befriends Hawke, and will say the exact same words to the Inquisitor; someone becomes King or Queen; someone will rule in Orzammar and have NO effect in Hawke's story or in the Inquisition; someone will survive in the Brecilian Forest and have NO effect in the future either, someone will become the Divine's Left Hand and proceed in a certain manner, regardless of being Hardened/Not Hardened in Origins, etc.

 

In the end, the only thing the Warden does affect and changes significantly is his personal life. And then, his existence loses all importance in the 2 subsequent games. I mean, we don't even see the Warden in Inquisition. And what was Hawke's importance in Inquisition? Introduce us to a Warden and be an extra option to be killed later in the Fade, in a kind of fake, torturing decision, that in the end will also not change anything at all? I mean, Here Lies The Abyss ends, the Warden or Hawke disappears of the Inquisitor's life forever, period. You chose who to sacrifice, there's no continuity to your choice. Really, what is the point in adding either Hawke or a Warden to Inquisition in the first place? Fanservice? What, what was it? I really don't get it.

 

It's like Thedas gives you the finger after each game. Nothing you decide will actually change anything for real.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Yet.

This is Dragon Age, so the probability is quite high.

Oh really? Tell me how the ogb, letting the architect live, or letting Varric keep the red lyrium shard backfired?

[Boost32]

Tevinter is the first state to take on Andrastianism as its official religion. It remains the less-worse version of the Chantry today.

 

 

 

It's like watching the kiddy-league vs the World Series. You know a ball in Tevinter will come with a real light show, as opposed to a bunch of hacks who are so meek and impotent that hiding behind masks is their most defining characteristic.

What is kiddy-league vs the World Series? 

Orlais have the most powerful army,might not be as flashy but its well more powerful than Tevinter. ButI really wish to see Nevarra and its biggest city (Nevarra city, Hunter Fell and the biggest city of Thedas Cumberland).

[MisterJB]

Read the magebane shield description

 

Blight.
 

[MisterJB]

 

I for one am in full support of the existence of both the Circle and the College. It's wonderful.

 

It keeps the mages competing with each other rather than with us.