1041 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

I tend to believe Cassandra here, she has no reason to lie.

she also might not be wholly unbiased

[Xilizhra]

*points at the ancient darkspawn magister we spend the entire game fighting*

Why do you not think that evil can fight evil?

[Boost32]

Something about Trespasser that really annoys me is how it only show what Leliana did in the last 2 years, her Divine epilogue is the only one that shows her actions (Chantry open to all races, Shartan back, Church orgy), while Cassandra and Vivienne shows nothing (hell Vivienne doesnt even have a different image if she is Divine).

The things I know about Viv as Divine:
Giselle said the first year was violent (the revolt because she was a mage and, by her original epilogue, put them down fast and with violence), she united the Chantry and showed the mages are under her control.
She says she will declare an Exalted March on Par Vollen.
She allowed a few mages of then Inquisition to form the College of Enchanter.
Cass says she is a tyrant, yet doesnt say why (might be because the way she put the revolt down).

Bioware should have showed us the action of each Divine equally, not focusing on the most popular one and shoving the College on every ending.

[Boost32]

I tend to believe Cassandra here, she has no reason to lie.

So you dont know why she is a tyrant at all. Thank you.

[AresKeith]

Something about Trespasser that really annoys me is how it only show what Leliana did in the last 2 years, her Divine epilogue is the only one that shows her actions (Chantry open to all races, Shartan back, Church orgy), while Cassandra and Vivienne shows nothing (hell Vivienne doesnt even have a different image if she is Divine).

The things I know about Viv as Divine:
Giselle said the first year was violent (the revolt because she was a mage and, by her original epilogue, put them down fast and with violence), she united the Chantry and showed the mages are under her control.
She says she will declare an Exalted March on Par Vollen.
She allowed a few mages of then Inquisition to form the College of Enchanter.
Cass says she is a tyrant, yet doesnt say why (might be because the way she put the revolt down).

Bioware should have showed us the action of each Divine equally, not focusing on the most popular one and shoving the College on every ending.

 

Shhh before you summon him

[Boost32]

Shhh before you summon him

He is already here, I just ignore him.

[Dabrikishaw]

I dislike her as much as the next guy but I've never though of Vivienne as evil.

[sandalisthemaker]

Bioware should have showed us the action of each Divine equally, not focusing on the most popular one and shoving the College on every ending.

 

 

That really is annoying. 

[MrGDL87]

The Inquisitor travelled into the fade and came across the "essence of perfection".

Although, I'm not talking about the crafting material.

I was referring to Vivienne travelling alongside me

 

Sorry for the cheesiness, I wanted to add something to the thread but it's all been said.

Vivienne is my favourite character of the series .

[Sylvianus]

The fact that Cassandra claims that Vivienne is a tyrant without even explaining why after two years, doesn't help me to take her opinion seriously. ( Vivienne was forced to act because people couldn't accept a mage as a divine and were unable to accept a legitimate result, using then violence, assasinations and revolution, it was totally justified that she uses any mean to silent them and to restore order. It would have been hardened Leliana, I'm pretty sure that her fanboys and fangirls would have been okay with that. )

 

Also the same annoying thing in the ending slide, you learn that Cassandra leaves the council because of Vivienne but the " why " is not explained. Again. Such thing couldn't affect my opinion in any way, it just makes me roll my eyes. 

 

I don't really think that's a viable argument that anyone can defend anyway without any meaningful content.

[Boost32]

The fact that Cassandra claims that Vivienne is a tyrant without even explaining why after two years, doesn't help me to take her opinion seriously. ( Vivienne was forced to act because people couldn't accept a mage as a divine and were unable to accept a legitimate result, using then violence, assasinations and revolution,  it was totally justified that she uses any mean to silent them and to restore order. It would have been hardened Leliana, I'm pretty sure that her fanboys would have been okay with that )
 
Also the same annoying thing in the ending slide, you learn that Cassandra leaves the council because of Vivienne but the " why " is not explained. Again. Such thing couldn't affect my opinion in any way, it just makes me roll my eyes. 
 
I don't really think that's a viable argument that anyone can defend anyway without any meaningful content.

Thats my point of view too.

[Xilizhra]

Something about Trespasser that really annoys me is how it only show what Leliana did in the last 2 years, her Divine epilogue is the only one that shows her actions (Chantry open to all races, Shartan back, Church orgy), while Cassandra and Vivienne shows nothing (hell Vivienne doesnt even have a different image if she is Divine).

The things I know about Viv as Divine:
Giselle said the first year was violent (the revolt because she was a mage and, by her original epilogue, put them down fast and with violence), she united the Chantry and showed the mages are under her control.
She says she will declare an Exalted March on Par Vollen.
She allowed a few mages of then Inquisition to form the College of Enchanter.
Cass says she is a tyrant, yet doesnt say why (might be because the way she put the revolt down).

Bioware should have showed us the action of each Divine equally, not focusing on the most popular one and shoving the College on every ending.

So, would you have supported Vivienne not creating the Circle with Divine Leliana? What would you have preferred she do?

[thesuperdarkone2]

Funny how nobody mentioned divine Vivienne being said to abuse the chant for her own personal benefit.

[sandalisthemaker]

Funny how nobody mentioned divine Vivienne being said to abuse the chant for her own personal benefit.

 

That was just stuff and nonsense.

 

Dear Cassandra's head was obviously up in the clouds due to her preoccupation with Varric's trolling. 

[Bigdoser]

The fact that Cassandra claims that Vivienne is a tyrant without even explaining why after two years, doesn't help me to take her opinion seriously. ( Vivienne was forced to act because people couldn't accept a mage as a divine and were unable to accept a legitimate result, using then violence, assasinations and revolution, it was totally justified that she uses any mean to silent them and to restore order. It would have been hardened Leliana, I'm pretty sure that her fanboys and fangirls would have been okay with that. )

 

Also the same annoying thing in the ending slide, you learn that Cassandra leaves the council because of Vivienne but the " why " is not explained. Again. Such thing couldn't affect my opinion in any way, it just makes me roll my eyes. 

 

I don't really think that's a viable argument that anyone can defend anyway without any meaningful content.

Erm I tend to trust the judgement of Cass because out of the party members no matter if you like her or not she is honest and Viv would use the chant to benefit her its within her character. 

[Hazegurl]

She's a mage Divine, that alone is an abuse of their stupid chant.

[Sylvianus]

Funny how nobody mentioned divine Vivienne being said to abuse the chant for her own personal benefit.

 

Do we know what that even mean ? No, not really. This one sentence without further explanations seems meaningless to me. And this is again the opinion of Cassandra alone, and you know that she has strong opinions about how should be the chantry, she is all about the ideals unlike Vivienne, and sometime it can even be a little naive ( at least for me ), so you will excuse me if I don't totally trust her about how Vivienne is abusing the chant according to her opinion without further explanations. I don't really like affirmations in one line without arguments to back up the opinion.

 

Also are we supposed to freak out because someone powerful uses its power for its own personal benefit as much as doing it for its convictions and for the people ? As it happens often ? Lol, I think people aren't that naive... As long as Vivienne is doing her job, I don't really care if she also gain personal advantages for her. It's not like it will change anything for the common folks if it happens or not. 

[Bigdoser]

Problem is the chantry should be helping the common folk that was the whole issue with the chantry in the first place since they forgotten some of their main directives. I just feel Viv is repeating past mistakes even though I don't even hate her. 

 

That's the thing Leliana and Cass have one thing in common is the fact that they feel the chantry should re focus on charity etc. 

[Sylvianus]

Erm I tend to trust the judgement of Cass because out of the party members no matter if you like her or not she is honest and Viv would use the chant to benefit her its within her character. 

 

it was about how she was supposed to be a tyrant actually, in my post. And yes cassandra is honest, but it isn't about her honesty, but her concepts. She can be also rigid in her views about how should be the chantry and the religion, so It's possible that what Vivienne might do might not please her, not necessarily because Vivienne is absolutely doing something wrong, but that Cassandra sees it as wrong according to her religious concepts and point of views. 

[Wulfram]

Cassandra seemed fairly positive about Vivienne in the main game, and isn't exactly a mage freedom banner waver, so her opinion seems worth taking seriously.

[Sylvianus]

Cassandra seemed fairly positive about Vivienne in the main game, and isn't exactly a mage freedom banner waver, so her opinion seems worth taking seriously.

 

Cassandra has very strong opinions about the chantry, how it should be, how it should be ruled, and what she thought about Vivienne in the main game had nothing to do with religion. It's only when Vivienne became divine, having obviously different concepts, different point of views, from Cassandra about how to lead the chantry that the lady seeker obviously started to change her opinions about her. In the main game, Cassandra never had to confront Vivienne over religious matters. 

 

I'm not saying that Cassandra might not have legetimate reasons, I'm saying, that claiming such thing without further explanations isn't worth taking seriously in my opinion. 

[Colonelkillabee]

it was about how she was supposed to be a tyrant actually, in my post. And yes cassandra is honest, but it isn't about her honesty, but her concepts. She can be also rigid in her views about how should be the chantry and the religion, so It's possible that what Vivienne might do might not please her, not necessarily because Vivienne is absolutely doing something wrong, but that Cassandra sees it as wrong according to her religious concepts and point of views. 

Could also just be bias against mages.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Cassandra has very strong opinions about the chantry, how it should be, how it should be ruled, and what she thought about Vivienne in the main game had nothing to do with religion. It's only when Vivienne became divine, having obviously different concepts, different point of views, from Cassandra about how to lead the chantry that the lady seeker obviously started to change her opinions about her. In the main game, Cassandra never had to confront Vivienne over religious matters.

I'm not saying that Cassandra might not have legetimate reasons, I'm saying, that claiming such thing without further explanations isn't worth taking seriously in my opinion.

Yet Leliana completely changes things and Cass isn't as vitriolic towards her as she is with Vivienne.

[sandalisthemaker]

Yet Leliana completely changes things and Cass isn't as vitriolic towards her as she is with Vivienne.

 

Meh. Most likely deliberate on the writer's part as to not miff the majority who apparently chose Leliana. 

[Sylvianus]

Yet Leliana completely changes things and Cass isn't as vitriolic towards her as she is with Vivienne.

 

I doubt that it has anything to do with the result of her politics. Cassandra disagrees with Leliana, but respect her. What could that mean ? It might mean that it's all about the personality and how Vivienne turns the chantry into her political battlefield, as if she was still in the noble game, which Cassandra totally despises and she claims it already in Orlais. 

 

Vivienne is a political animal, and a political animal as a Divine ? Yep, for someone like Cassandra with such rigourous religious ideals, it might be very well disgusting, regardless of the politics and the efficiency of Vivienne.