1041 réponses à ce sujet

[sniper_arrow]

I doubt that it has anything to do with the result of her politics. Cassandra disagrees with Leliana, but respect her. What could that mean ? It might mean that it's all about the personality and how Vivienne  turns the chantry into her political battlefield, as if she was still in the noble game, which Cassandra totally despises and she claims it already in Orlais. 

 

Vivienne is a political animal, and a political animal as a Divine ? Yep, for someone like Cassandra with such rigourous religious ideals, it might be very well disgusting, regardless of the politics and the efficiency of Vivienne. It might be very well that reason that could really bother Cassandra. 

 

Cassandra has known Leliana ever since they were the Right and the Left Hands of the Divine respectively. Cass may know how Leliana views on certain issues for a long time. 

[Iakus]

Why do you not think that evil can fight evil?

 

I think "evil" is an all-to easy word to toss around, and should be reserved for things that are actually...evil.

The fact that Cassandra claims that Vivienne is a tyrant without even explaining why after two years, doesn't help me to take her opinion seriously. ( Vivienne was forced to act because people couldn't accept a mage as a divine and were unable to accept a legitimate result, using then violence, assasinations and revolution, it was totally justified that she uses any mean to silent them and to restore order. It would have been hardened Leliana, I'm pretty sure that her fanboys and fangirls would have been okay with that. )

 

Also the same annoying thing in the ending slide, you learn that Cassandra leaves the council because of Vivienne but the " why " is not explained. Again. Such thing couldn't affect my opinion in any way, it just makes me roll my eyes. 

 

I don't really think that's a viable argument that anyone can defend anyway without any meaningful content.

Especially since Cassandra thought Hawke started the mage rebellion and the Inquisitor assassinated the Divine.  She doesn't always see things clearly.

[Boost32]

Funny how nobody mentioned divine Vivienne being said to abuse the chant for her own personal benefit.

Please, provide the source of your claims.

[Boost32]

Problem is the chantry should be helping the common folk that was the whole issue with the chantry in the first place since they forgotten some of their main directives. I just feel Viv is repeating past mistakes even though I don't even hate her.

That's the thing Leliana and Cass have one thing in common is the fact that they feel the chantry should re focus on charity etc.

The Chantry should oversee the mages and put them in the Circles, its Clerics should all be female and celibate, so Leliana is perverting the Chantry.
And "Vivienne using the Chantry for personal benefits" needs a source, because I dont remember anything like that. Cass call her a tyrant and in the epilogue she left because Vivienne is "perverting the Chantry", yet both claims are unexplained.

[The Baconer]

its Clerics should all be female and celibate,

 

How debased is the South.

[ModernAcademic]

Mandatory celibacy usually leads to pedophilia within religious institutions.

Every human being needs intimacy and sex. Whenever denied this, they develop sexual subversions. Teenagers become priests' wives, nuns become eah other's husbands and wives.

 

I thought Dragon Age would be innovative and show clerics who can at least have a love affair, maybe even a clever system for them to leave some inheritance to their children...but no. It's traditionalism over sense.

[Ghost Gal]

The Chantry should oversee the mages and put them in the Circles

 

Yeah, 'cause that worked so well the first time.

 

Also, I love how your response to Biddoser saying that the Chantry should help the common folk is that, no, they should focus on imprisoning mages. I see imprisoning and hurting people is more important than helping them. Glad to see which direction your moral compass points.

[Boost32]

Yeah, 'cause that worked so well the first time.

Also, I love how your response to Biddoser saying that the Chantry should help the common folk is that, no, they should focus on imprisoning mages. I see imprisoning and hurting people is more important than helping them. Glad to see which direction your moral compass points.

Its seem Xil and supersarkone have a disciple.
And yes, it did work very well the first time.

[Drasanil]

Meh. Most likely deliberate on the writer's part as to not miff the majority who apparently chose Leliana. 

 

[MisterJB]

Yeah, 'cause that worked so well the first time.

900 years of peace where non-magical societies were able to flourish without mage rulers and people weren't being killed by mages and Abominations.

 

Rather, mages watching over themselves have a much worse track record. For instance, Tevinter after the HEssarian reformations where mages were permitted to be their own watchers and ended up regaining all their former power and purged all non-mages from positions of influence such as the clergy or the senate.

 

Also, I love how your response to Biddoser saying that the Chantry should help the common folk is that, no, they should focus on imprisoning mages. I see imprisoning and hurting people is more important than helping them. Glad to see which direction your moral compass points.

Imprisioning mages helps people.

[MisterJB]

Of course, you only get to reason with them because they are at their lowest, try reasoning with an templar when they are their full power.

 

Like how you can reason with Gregoir that an Annulment is not longer necessary?
Or how you can reason with Cullen that Keran deserves a second chance?

Or, again, how you can reason with Cullen how Alain, having turned against Grace, deserves mercy?
Or how you can reason with Meredith that Emille is just an harmless fool and shouldn't be executed
 

[MisterJB]

You know, I would not want to be the first female elves who would join the Chantry under Leliana. Because, really, outside of male humans, that is who will be most affected by her policies.

 

Assuming they would ever be ordained, I am guessing their daly life would be something similar to this:

 

Marriage of nobles and peasants? Send the human.

 

Attending to the condemned? Send the elf.

 

Sunday Mass? Send the human.

 

Providing succor to the plague ridden? Send the elf.

 

But that is what you get with a Divine who makes feel good decisions and fails to adress any of Thedas' actual problems.

 

 

[SgtSteel91]

So how would you address racism?

[Xilizhra]

You know, I would not want to be the first female elves who would join the Chantry under Leliana. Because, really, outside of male humans, that is who will be most affected by her policies.

 

Assuming they would ever be ordained, I am guessing their daly life would be something similar to this:

 

Marriage of nobles and peasants? Send the human.

 

Attending to the condemned? Send the elf.

 

Sunday Mass? Send the human.

 

Providing succor to the plague ridden? Send the elf.

 

But that is what you get with a Divine who makes feel good decisions and fails to adress any of Thedas' actual problems.

I'm reasonably sure you don't end racism by maintaining segregation.

[Shienis]

I'm reasonably sure you don't end racism by maintaining segregation.

 

Yes, yes, yes. You (and the good guys in your posts) always "don't do" something that's bad. I would like to read something reasonable and realistic you "would" do, for a change. It might help me to better understand your point of view.

So, what would you (or the your point of view good guys) do to improve situation for the elves?

[Wulfram]

You know, I would not want to be the first female elves who would join the Chantry under Leliana. Because, really, outside of male humans, that is who will be most affected by her policies.
 
Assuming they would ever be ordained, I am guessing their daly life would be something similar to this:
 
Marriage of nobles and peasants? Send the human.
 
Attending to the condemned? Send the elf.
 
Sunday Mass? Send the human.
 
Providing succor to the plague ridden? Send the elf.
 
But that is what you get with a Divine who makes feel good decisions and fails to adress any of Thedas' actual problems.

Still sounds better than what they'd be doing otherwise.

One problem I do see with opening up the priesthood to elves is that you might get too many elven applicants, since they'll be being offered a rare opportunity to have a good job. That risks building up hostility higher than it might otherwise be, and also might create a degree of resistance in the alienages - the Chantry could be seen as essentially stealing away the best of elven youth to become "flat ears".

[Xilizhra]

Yes, yes, yes. You (and the good guys in your posts) always "don't do" something that's bad. I would like to read something reasonable and realistic you "would" do, for a change. It might help me to better understand your point of view.

So, what would you (or the your point of view good guys) do to improve situation for the elves?

Well, the first step is to remove all legal differences between humans and elves. In Leliana's case, she can also say something about how treating anyone as though they're more or less by virtue of their race is a no-no in the eyes of the Maker. The second is legal representation, of the type that we can see with the city elven boon from DAO. To be honest, social engineering projects beyond that point, such as affirmative action, are probably anachronistic, but if elven communities require extra protection, it should be given.

[Steelcan]

If they do flock to Solas's banner, Elves will be lucky to escape crucifixion along the Imperial Highway

[Xilizhra]

If they do flock to Solas's banner, Elves will be lucky to escape crucifixion along the Imperial Highway

Then it's best to ramp down the racism as quickly as possible so that fewer elves do join Solas, yes?

[Steelcan]

Then it's best to ramp down the racism as quickly as possible so that fewer elves do join Solas, yes?

the cat is out of the bag fr that I imagine.  I don't see the elves agreeing to "why don't you guys just hold off on joining the elven Spartacus while we attempt to arrive at a consensus between the people who actually matter"

[Xilizhra]

the cat is out of the bag fr that I imagine.  I don't see the elves agreeing to "why don't you guys just hold off on joining the elven Spartacus while we attempt to arrive at a consensus between the people who actually matter"

Well, if things truly did go that badly, then I'd have to split my time between opposing Solas and opposing any rulers who'd enact any kind of pogrom on elves.

[Lumix19]

If they do flock to Solas's banner, Elves will be lucky to escape crucifixion along the Imperial Highway

You're giving the people of Thedas far too much credit. By the time they even accept that Solas is Fen'Harel they'll all be dead.

[Steelcan]

Well, if things truly did go that badly, then I'd have to split my time between opposing Solas and opposing any rulers who'd enact any kind of pogrom on elves.

Since the next game is almost certainly going to be in Tevinter I think it'd be a tad unlikely our attention would be evenly split between Tevinter and the South.

 

Furthermore the line between "pogrom against an innocent civilian population" and "attacking the enemy elves" is going to be fairly difficult to tell the difference between.

[Lumix19]

Since the next game is almost certainly going to be in Tevinter I think it'd be a tad unlikely our attention would be evenly split between Tevinter and the South.

 

Furthermore the line between "pogrom against an innocent civilian population" and "attacking the enemy elves" is going to be fairly difficult to tell the difference between.

So the solution is to wipe out entire civilian populations to kill a few hidden enemies? Because that will work so well.

[Steelcan]

So the solution is to wipe out entire civilian populations to kill a few hidden enemies? Because that will work so well.

I didn't say it was.

 

There probably won't be any good solutions right off the bat