1041 réponses à ce sujet

[TheJediSaint]

She's pretty awesome from any angle, darling.

[SgtSteel91]

I respect her convictions but chafe at her constant disparaging. But I don't understand why, when Leliana is Divine, she makes her own Circle rather than try to work with the College of Enchanters. Is she looking to destroy the College or just create 'friendly' competition to make sure Mages don't get funny ideas when the Inquisition is disbanded/relinquishes power?

[NeverlandHunter]

Vivienne is a marvel! She acts so confident and in control when really she struggles with self doubt.

I particularly like the insight you get in the Fade about her!

Unfortunately I think her character needed a little bit more time spent her. As much as I enjoyed her as a companion and my mage Trevelyan as a mentor, I have a hard time truly trusting her especially as Divine. Her romance was also very sweet in, but it also felt a bit rushed. I know it doesn't make sense that she'd show a lot of weakness (ie emotion) in front of the Inquisitor, but I still think they could of done more with it!

Regardless she is awesome, all hail Empress Vivienne!

[Xilizhra]

Vivienne is interesting in the way that she's like a mirror image of Morrigan. She wears white where Morrigan wears black and is dark-skinned where Morrigan is fair; where Morrigan wants freedom for herself, Vivienne wants control over others, and where Morrigan is outwardly prickly and combative but has a sort of conscience and the potential for something better, Vivienne is outwardly and superficially charming while being a cold-hearted ****** all the way down.

[Cantina]

I'd pay for a DLC that allows you to not only ****** slap Vivienne but kick her out of the Inquisition.

[NeverlandHunter]

Vivienne is interesting in the way that she's like a mirror image of Morrigan. She wears white where Morrigan wears black and is dark-skinned where Morrigan is fair; where Morrigan wants freedom for herself, Vivienne wants control over others, and where Morrigan is outwardly prickly and combative but has a sort of conscience and the potential for something better, Vivienne is outwardly and superficially charming while being a cold-hearted ****** all the way down.

Although you bring up a good point about them being so similar, just two sides of the same coin, I wouldn't consider Vivienne a cold-hearted b**** all way. Vivienne is a survivor, her dealings with the Circle and the Orlesian court has left her morally questionable and a bit of an elitist snob a someone else put it, but she has done what she has had to to gain the power that she needs to be in control of her situation. Everything Viv is and everything she does is to keep her connected enough that she doesn't have to worry about being caged up or dismissed. She's a control freak, but can you blame her for that? She wears her pride and her arrogance as a mask of intimidation for onlookers. She's cunning, observant, and yes, selfish. But she's not unnecessarily cruel, everything she does is calculated. To keep her on the winning side, and to keep her from being controlled.

[Xilizhra]

Although you bring up a good point about them being so similar, just two sides of the same coin, I wouldn't consider Vivienne a cold-hearted b**** all way. Vivienne is a survivor, her dealings with the Circle and the Orlesian court has left her morally questionable and a bit of an elitist snob a someone else put it, but she has done what she has had to to gain the power that she needs to be in control of her situation. Everything Viv is and everything she does is to keep her connected enough that she doesn't have to worry about being caged up or dismissed. She's a control freak, but can you blame her for that? She wears her pride and her arrogance as a mask of intimidation for onlookers. She's cunning, observant, and yes, selfish. But she's not unnecessarily cruel, everything she does is calculated. To keep her on the winning side, and to keep her from being controlled.

Vivienne isn't unnecessarily cruel (always; Alphonse is a time where she was), but she is utterly callous and has no regard for anyone else's suffering. And if she was ever going to provide evidence to the contrary, I couldn't trust it because of exactly what you said: she plays the Game and never stops, and anything that could show regard for anyone else could be just another maneuver. Basically, I see no reason to trust anything that Vivienne says that isn't clearly self-interested.

[Jaison1986]

She is only good for fighting, and that's about it. She shows her true colors in the trespasser ending were she is not divine and the mages have the colloge. Peace and stability my ass. Only when it's convenient for her, that is.

[Big I]

I respect Vivienne. Her drive, conviction and talent are admirable. However I don't like her very much, and I sure as hell don't agree with her about anything.

[NeverlandHunter]

Vivienne isn't unnecessarily cruel (always; Alphonse is a time where she was), but she is utterly callous and has no regard for anyone else's suffering. And if she was ever going to provide evidence to the contrary, I couldn't trust it because of exactly what you said: she plays the Game and never stops, and anything that could show regard for anyone else could be just another maneuver. Basically, I see no reason to trust anything that Vivienne says that isn't clearly self-interested.

I would never argue that Vivienne is anything but selfish. She gives more freedoms to the mages (as Divine), but she's also helping herself out that way. She helps the Inquisition but she admits to it forwarding her own goals. I agree no matter what you're relationship to Viv is it's hard to truly trust her and her motivations. I think she can respect the Inquisitor, I think she can even be very fond of them, but in the end, I'm not sure how much that friendship would amount to if you threatened Viv's control.

 

She's an interesting character, and for that I love her. You can always find Blackwall's and Cassandra's in video games, but how often do you find a character who is completely motivated by her own self-interests that isn't the villain or an antihero who's just hiding their decency deep down. Vivienne knows who she is and owns up to that, a trait I find very respectable. Why must she be a noble hero? And why is does selfishness equate to her having nothing redeeming about her? Not your words, I know, just posing the question .

[Xilizhra]

I would never argue that Vivienne is anything but selfish. She gives more freedoms to the mages (as Divine), but she's also helping herself out that way. She helps the Inquisition but she admits to it forwarding her own goals. I agree no matter what you're relationship to Viv is it's hard to truly trust her and her motivations. I think she can respect the Inquisitor, I think she can even be very fond of them, but in the end, I'm not sure how much that friendship would amount to if you threatened Viv's control.

 

She's an interesting character, and for that I love her. You can always find Blackwall's and Cassandra's in video games, but how often do you find a character who is completely motivated by her own self-interests that isn't the villain or an antihero who's just hiding their decency deep down. Vivienne knows who she is and owns up to that, a trait I find very respectable. Why must she be a noble hero? And why is does selfishness equate to her having nothing redeeming about her? Not your words, I know, just posing the question .

I think that Vivienne is a villain, she's just one that I, very obnoxiously, can do nothing about. The only thing that makes her different from, say, Erimond is the fact that she feels she can achieve more power with the world restored to the status quo than under Corypheus (also, Erimond has faith, which I suspect Vivienne lacks).

[Dasha Dreyson]

I really didn't like her at first, but she really grew on me.

[NeverlandHunter]

I think that Vivienne is a villain, she's just one that I, very obnoxiously, can do nothing about. The only thing that makes her different from, say, Erimond is the fact that she feels she can achieve more power with the world restored to the status quo than under Corypheus (also, Erimond has faith, which I suspect Vivienne lacks).

Hmm, she might like to see her self that way, but what has she really done to deserve that title? Yeah, Divine Victoria can cause quite a lot of chaos, but what if she's not made Divine? None of her shadier acts appear to hurt people who don't deserve it and she rarely seems to strike with malicious intent.

[Boost32]

I would never argue that Vivienne is anything but selfish. She gives more freedoms to the mages (as Divine), but she's also helping herself out that way. She helps the Inquisition but she admits to it forwarding her own goals. I agree no matter what you're relationship to Viv is it's hard to truly trust her and her motivations. I think she can respect the Inquisitor, I think she can even be very fond of them, but in the end, I'm not sure how much that friendship would amount to if you threatened Viv's control.

 

She's an interesting character, and for that I love her. You can always find Blackwall's and Cassandra's in video games, but how often do you find a character who is completely motivated by her own self-interests that isn't the villain or an antihero who's just hiding their decency deep down. Vivienne knows who she is and owns up to that, a trait I find very respectable. Why must she be a noble hero? And why is does selfishness equate to her having nothing redeeming about her? Not your words, I know, just posing the question .

Viv is very loyal, even when she have nothing to gain by stading by the Inquisition's side she stay there, helping you even if its means putting her position in jeopardy.

In WoT Vol.2, says she risked a lot by joining the Inquisition.

If made Divine, you can ask her to join you again, even when she has not to gain, she is ready to put her life on the line to help you (as she said "For you anything my dear").

Even when Ferelden and Orlais are agains the Inquisition she helps you amd she has nothing to gain by doing it.

She will never lie to you, she will never jeopardize the Inquisition or try to take your like, she is one of the most loyal members of your team.

[sandalisthemaker]

Vivienne, a villain?

 

Absolutely not.

 

She is a realist, and a breath of fresh air with a point of view that was severely lacking otherwise in this game. 

[Boost32]

Hmm, she might like to see her self that way, but what has she really done to deserve that title? Yeah, Divine Victoria can cause quite a lot of chaos, but what if she's not made Divine? None of her shadier acts appear to hurt people who don't deserve it and she rarely seems to strike with malicious intent.

The chaos wasnt caused by her, the revolts are caused by people who doesnt want her on the Sunburst throne and if she doesnt acted against them shw wouldnt stay alive.

And if you sided with the mage, they started another rebellion, when they surrendered she showed mercy for them.

[Xilizhra]

Hmm, she might like to see her self that way, but what has she really done to deserve that title? Yeah, Divine Victoria can cause quite a lot of chaos, but what if she's not made Divine? None of her shadier acts appear to hurt people who don't deserve it and she rarely seems to strike with malicious intent.

She does try to kill Cole at one point, and might be attempting to prepare for war against the College of Enchanters.

 

 

 

 

Vivienne, a villain?

 

Absolutely not.

 

She is a realist, and a breath of fresh air with a point of view that was severely lacking otherwise in this game. 

Her logical reasoning is broken, her morals are arguably nonexistent, and she only ever agrees with anything that gives her power.

[NeverlandHunter]

Viv is very loyal, even when she have nothing to gain by stading by the Inquisition's side she stay there, helping you even if its means putting her position in jeopardy.

In WoT Vol.2, says she risked a lot by joining the Inquisition.

If made Divine, you can ask her to join you again, even when she has not to gain, she is ready to put her life on the line to help you (as she said "For you anything my dear").

Even when Ferelden and Orlais are agains the Inquisition she helps you amd she has nothing to gain by doing it.

She will never lie to you, she will never jeopardize the Inquisition or try to take your like, she is one of the most loyal members of your team.

I don't doubt her loyalty exactly... more her motivations. She had a lot to lose with the Inquisition, yes, but she also had a lot to gain. She couldn't go back to Celene's side when Morrigan had already practically uprooted her, her lover lay dying, and the Circle's had broken apart. Every strong position of power she had was compromised. Her best bet was the Inquisition and it's success.

Hmm, that could be her friendship, or it could be her reminding the people that she's still a bad**s mage who can kill hoards of enemies if necessary.

I doubt Vivienne makes any choice that doesn't end with her gaining something. Even if she was just being a friend, she was still strengthening that alliance by helping.

Never without proper motivation my dear.

[sandalisthemaker]

 

Her logical reasoning is broken, her morals are arguably nonexistent, and she only ever agrees with anything that gives her power.

 

She rightfully points out that the rebellion was ill-conceived, short-sighted, helped no one, and harmed everyone.

[NeverlandHunter]

She does try to kill Cole at one point, and might be attempting to prepare for war against the College of Enchanters.

 

 

 

 

Her logical reasoning is broken, her morals are arguably nonexistent, and she only ever agrees with anything that gives her power.

Does she? I never noticed it in game, but considering her fear of demons it's not surprising. Fear makes people to irrational things.

[Boost32]

I don't doubt her loyalty exactly... more her motivations. She had a lot to lose with the Inquisition, yes, but she also had a lot to gain. She couldn't go back to Celene's side when Morrigan had already practically uprooted her, her lover lay dying, and the Circle's had broken apart. Every strong position of power she had was compromised. Her best bet was the Inquisition and it's success.

Hmm, that could be her friendship, or it could be her reminding the people that she's still a bad**s mage who can kill hoards of enemies if necessary.

I doubt Vivienne makes any choice that doesn't end with her gaining something. Even if she was just being a friend, she was still strengthening that alliance by helping.

Never without proper motivation my dear.

Yes she coul go back to Celene, Morrigan didnt got her Job. Vivienne was/is the Imperial Enchantress while Morrigan was an Arcane Advisor of Celene. A conversation with Cole tell us that she left Celene on her own accord and the Empress didnt want Vivienne to leave.

[Jaison1986]

She rightfully points out that the rebellion was ill-conceived, short-sighted, helped no one, and harmed everyone.

 

And yet she risks another with the college? She could have supported them to make the transition of institutions easier and avoid conflict. But of all things, she found another circle and risks more war. With that in mind, her statements aren't very genuine, or beliavable.

[Potato Cat]

And the view she only cares about herself is just plain wrong. Yes she's selfish, but she's also one of the only two companions who approves if you save everyone at Haven. Not only that her hatred of the rebellion is not only fueled by her loss of power, but by the endless casualties and cruelties the rebellion brought. From the Tranquil at Redcliffe, to a fellow mage who was murdered for not wanting to take part in the rebellion, though she tries to hide it, the fact that she cares for others very strongly is clear to see.

[NeverlandHunter]

Yes she coul go back to Celene, Morrigan didnt got her Job. Vivienne was/is the Imperial Enchantress while Morrigan was an Arcane Advisor of Celene. A conversation with Cole tell us that she left Celene on her own accord and the Empress didnt want Vivienne to leave.

Yeah, but her power was compromised with Morrigan there and Vivienne definitely saw her as competition. She isn't anyone's second resort

[Boost32]

Does she? I never noticed it in game, but considering her fear of demons it's not surprising. Fear makes people to irrational things.

Ofc not, Xil is just being Xil. She refers to this conversationa s trying to kill Cole:

 

Spoiler

Vivienne: Cole... you were the Ghost of the Spire.

Cole: Yes.

Vivienne: Your murders stirred the Circle into a frenzy. That was what brought the attention of the templars.

Cole: The templars hurt mages.

Vivienne: Stupid, panicking mages who became a danger to themselves and others because of you!

Vivienne: You brought matters in the Spire to a head. Without you, there would be no rebellion.

Vivienne: Countless deaths are on your head, demon. Are you satisfied with the result of your protection?

Cole: You're lying. You're... twist the words right, and it will show its true form. Blood or banishment, either will suffice.

Cole: You like the templars. You think they were right.

Cole: You don't need to be protected.

Vivienne: It can learn after all.