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[Xilizhra]

And the view she only cares about herself is just plain wrong. Yes she's selfish, but she's also one of the only two companions who approves if you save everyone at Haven. Not only that her hatred of the rebellion is not only fueled by her loss of power, but by the endless casualties and cruelties the rebellion brought. From the Tranquil at Redcliffe, to a fellow mage who was murdered for not wanting to take part in the rebellion, though she tries to hide it, the fact that she cares for others very strongly is clear to see.

Tell me why I should believe either alleged expression of grief from this master of the Game who never stops playing it.

 

Also, she doesn't approve if you save everyone at Haven, at least not when I played it on the latest patch.

[Boost32]

Yeah, but her power was compromised with Morrigan there and Vivienne definitely saw her as competition. She isn't anyone's second resort

I agree with you on this.

[Potato Cat]

Tell me why I should believe either alleged expression of grief from this master of the Game who never stops playing it.

 

Also, she doesn't approve if you save everyone at Haven, at least not when I played it on the latest patch.

Well for one, Cole is the one who brought up the death of the mage, and he rarely brings up memories with little emotional weight. She also dislikes displaying emotions that make her appear, (or at least feel), weak and you can tell through Indira Varma's acting that the anger is masking a lot of pain and sadness.

 

And she definitely does approve. She doesn't approve if her approval is already very high though, or if she isn't in the party. Varric needs to be in the party in order to approve as well.

[sandalisthemaker]

And yet she risks another with the college? She could have supported them to make the transition of institutions easier and avoid conflict. But of all things, she found another circle and risks more war. With that in mind, her statements aren't very genuine, or beliavable.

 

She improves upon the Circle system as Divine and allows the College of Enchanters to exist out of mercy at the end of Trespasser. 

 

Things seem to be going peacefully between the two institutions ATM.

[SgtSteel91]

She improves upon the Circle system as Divine and allows the College of Enchanters to exist out of mercy. 

 

But when Leliana is Divine and dissolves the Circles Vivienne capitalizes on the Mages fears of the Inquisition ending/transitioning and makes her own Circle in direct competition with the College. I think that's what the poster means.

[Xilizhra]

Well for one, Cole is the one who brought up the death of the mage, and he rarely brings up memories with little emotional weight. She also dislikes displaying emotions that make her appear, (or at least feel), weak and you can tell through Indira Varma's acting that the anger is masking a lot of pain and sadness.

So was it grief for the mage, or for a victory by her enemies? No indication of that. And I'm sure she's canny enough to let a bit of alleged weakness slip through to make herself seem more human to her allies.

 

 

And she definitely does approve. She doesn't approve if her approval is already very high though, or if she isn't in the party. Varric needs to be in the party in order to approve as well.

Her approval was neutral and she was in my party when I played it last. She does not approve.

 

 

She improves upon the Circle system as Divine and allows the College of Enchanters to exist out of mercy at the end of Trespasser. 

 

Things seem to be going peacefully between the two institutions ATM.

But she creates strife if Leliana is Divine.

[sandalisthemaker]

But when Leliana is Divine and dissolves the Circles Vivienne capitalizes on the Mages fears of the Inquisition ending/transitioning and makes her own Circle in direct competition with the College. I think that's what the poster means.

 

Yes, but that only takes into account Leliana as Divine.

 

My point is that in my world state, it's different. 

[Boost32]

But when Leliana is Divine and dissolves the Circles Vivienne capitalizes on the Mages fears of the Inquisition ending/transitioning and makes her own Circle in direct competition with the College. I think that's what the poster means.

And what is the problem? Is she nos allowed to make her own Circle with the mages who are like minded?

Is it worse then when Cass is Divine the College attack the Circle, is deafeated and the leaders only survive because Vivienne spare then?

[Jaison1986]

And what is the problem? Is she nos allowed to make her own Circle with the mages who are like minded?

Is it worse then when Cass is Divine the College attack the Circle, is deafeated and the leaders only survive because Vivienne spare then?

 

You would never say that if it was Fiona doing such things.

[Boost32]

You would never say that if it was Fiona doing such things.

Because in the others ending she is not allowed.

Leliana gave the Mages free reign to do as they please, so Vivienne is not commiting a crime when she makes her own Circle with Leliana as Divine while Fiona is when Leliana is not.

[Potato Cat]

So was it grief for the mage, or for a victory by her enemies? No indication of that. And I'm sure she's canny enough to let a bit of alleged weakness slip through to make herself seem more human to her allies.

 

 

Her approval was neutral and she was in my party when I played it last. She does not approve.

Cole's also canny enough to come to pick up on people's true feelings towards things. The emphasis was on the victim, not the aggressors. 

 

And all I can say is I've had Vivienne in the party every time at Haven. She's always approved. Either your game's bugged, you missed it, or her approval is higher than 35 so says the wiki, which also backs me up.

http://dragonage.wik...eart_Shall_Burn

Vivienne Approves

[SgtSteel91]

And what is the problem? Is she nos allowed to make her own Circle with the mages who are like minded?

Is it worse then when Cass is Divine the College attack the Circle, is deafeated and the leaders only survive because Vivienne spare then?

 

It depends if Vivienne is just making an institution for Loyalist Mages or if she's going to try to tear down the College. If it's the former then I have no problems.

[sandalisthemaker]

Tell me why I should believe either alleged expression of grief from this master of the Game who never stops playing it.

 

Also, she doesn't approve if you save everyone at Haven, at least not when I played it on the latest patch.

 

Did you have her in your party?

 

I did, and she approved. 

[Boost32]

It depends if Vivienne is just making an institution for Loyalist Mages or if she's going to try to tear down the College. If it's the former then I have no problems.

She can't tear down the College even if she wanted it. Her greatest weapon is the poilitcal connections, but the Circle have way less mages than the College, its impossible for her to fight against the College.

[sandalisthemaker]

It depends if Vivienne is just making an institution for Loyalist Mages or if she's going to try to tear down the College. If it's the former then I have no problems.

 

If Vivienne is Divine, the Circle and the College seem to be playing nice. For now. 

 

Of course I fully expect another magical catastrophe eventually.

[Boost32]

If Vivienne is Divine, the Circle and the College seem to be playing nice. For now. 

 

Of course I fully expect another magical catastrophe eventually.

When Cass is Divine and the mages are allied, the College attacks the Circles, but they are defeated and the College's leaders are only spared because Vivienne showed then mercy.

[Xilizhra]

Cole's also canny enough to come to pick up on people's true feelings towards things. The emphasis was on the victim, not the aggressors.

Maybe it was someone she liked for personal reasons? It's hard to say, given her total disregard of virtually everyone else. Maybe it's just a writing inconsistency. She's scum either way, but it's odd.

 

 

And all I can say is I've had Vivienne in the party every time at Haven. She's always approved. Either your game's bugged, you missed it, or her approval is higher than 35 so says the wiki, which also backs me up.

http://dragonage.wik...eart_Shall_Burn

Vivienne Approves

Her approval cannot be higher than 35 at the time, because I always get a Greatly Disapproves hit with allying with the mages. So no, it's never showed up in my game. Maybe it's like the Wynne +7 approval if you sleep with Gheyna in DAO.

[sandalisthemaker]

When Cass is Divine and the mages are allied, the College attacks the Circles, but they are defeated and the College's leaders are only spared because Vivienne showed then mercy.

 

Vivienne is so fabulous. 

[Potato Cat]

Maybe it was someone she liked for personal reasons? It's hard to say, given her total disregard of virtually everyone else. Maybe it's just a writing inconsistency. She's scum either way, but it's odd.

 

Oh grow up.

[sandalisthemaker]

Xilizhra, you are just jumping through flaming hoops at this point.

 

She really isn't the monster you claim she is. 

[Boost32]

Vivienne is so fabulous. 

Yes, she is.

I admit I laughed when I read what Fiona did, she must really like to be owned by Vivienne at every turn

 

 

Oh grow up.

Xil will never recgonize anything good in Vivienne, there is nothing to discuss with her.

[Xilizhra]

Oh grow up.

What, is "scum" less juvenile than "fabulous?"

 

 

Xilizhra, you are just jumping through flaming hoops at this point.

 

She really isn't the monster you claim she is. 

Well, what I know is that she's the Circle equivalent of the head house slave who can't stand all of these uppity bitc*es and sons thereof being free and whatnot. What I'm admittedly uncertain of is whether she's devoid of all empathy or just most of it.

[Potato Cat]

 

Xil will never recgonize anything good in Vivienne, there is nothing to discuss with her.

It's usually my policy regarding everything Xil. Particularly after she called me a Nazi once.

 

I don't know why I even bothered.

[sandalisthemaker]

What, is "scum" less juvenile than "fabulous?"

 

 

Well, what I know is that she's the Circle equivalent of the head house slave who can't stand all of these uppity bitc*es and sons thereof being free and whatnot. What I'm admittedly uncertain of is whether she's devoid of all empathy or just most of it.

 

 

Hey hey hey!!!!

 

 

Don't be hatin' on the Fabulous!!!

 

 

Oh, and I"M NOT TOUCHING THE REST OF WHAT YOU SAID WITH A 5000000 FOOT POLE.

 

NOPE.

[SgtSteel91]

She can't tear down the College even if she wanted it. Her greatest weapon is the poilitcal connections, but the Circle have way less mages than the College, its impossible for her to fight against the College.

 

Then I have no problems.