1041 réponses à ce sujet

[Joe25]

So Vivienne for romance in DA4?

[Boost32]

Even better excuse to go abomination then, when Meredith has announced your death sentence? That only reinforced my point. 

 

Of course, again we're ignoring the mages who, instead of going abomination, resorted to more "conventional" forms of destructive magic that could bring harm to civilians. 

Good then, they were walking time bombs, they couldnt live in society. Those who surrendered and didnt turn were spared, those who gave in to demonic temptation were killed.

The majority of the mages from Kirkwall were only better than Tevinter, good ridance I say.

[Boost32]

So Vivienne for romance in DA4?

Nah, she is Divine in my worldstate. And she dont want to change the Chant of Light just to have sex with someone.

[Jaison1986]

Good then, they were walking time bombs, they couldnt live in society. Those who surrendered and didnt turn were spared, those who gave in to demonic temptation were killed.

The majority of the mages from Kirkwall were only better than Tevinter, good ridance I say.

 

And not the templars? The only good riddance was that I had Hawke slaughter half of the order before leaving that wretched city. 

[Hazegurl]

Say what you want of Jowan but he doesn't come off as an inept mage, just makes stupid choices. And whether or not he's qualified depends on your definition.
But yes he did receive inadequate training. It's the sort of situation the Circle induces though, if you're a mage you get taken away and stripped of your nobility, if you hide what are the chances of finding a proper tutor? Although based on the lore that followed there are instances where mages found proper tutors so maybe Isolde was just unlucky.

He was a Blood Mage and a stupid one at that, and he turned to Blood Magic for the same reason most weak Mages do, for power and to give himself an edge. It doesn't just depend on my definition but also Grand Enchanter Irving's opinion. And probably the Enchanters et al who report to him.

 

Jowan did not receive inadequate training, He received the same training as the Warden, Wynne, and every other Mage there.  He was just an idiot with no talent who would sway easily to the influences of a demon.  If the Fereldan Circle was inadequate in its training then the Mage Warden would have died much early on.

 

You get stripped of your title, that's it.  My IQ still seemed to have enjoyed the pleasures of coming from noble house.  Going home, Parties, et al. I'm not saying it's right to strip a Mage of their birthright, but a noble Mage still has their freedom to leave the Circle and visit home or even head to Tevinter and get set up quite nicely. That's not enough reason to hide and opt for crappy tutors. Especially for a noble.

 

I think Isolde was just stupid.

[The Baconer]

Good then, they were walking time bombs, they couldnt live in society. 

 

But the ones who used "cleaner" forms of self-defense by killing their assaulters with old-fashioned flesh-bubbling fire or lightning were viable members of society, yeah? Or no... So, announce to someone that they will be killed for a crime they didn't commit, then use their inevitable violent response to justify said execution. An excellent progression of logic at play here. 

 

Wanna know why the Circle in Kirkwall didn't work? 

 

 

The majority of the mages from Kirkwall were only better than Tevinter, good ridance I say.

 

Smote by the peacekeepers, Kirkwall's own Champions of the Just.  Ex-Viscount Hawke knows what justice feels like firsthand. 

 

Like denouncing ISIS only to turn around and do business with the House of Saud. 

[Hazegurl]

And not the templars? The only good riddance was that I had Hawke slaughter half of the order before leaving that wretched city.

 

I just wanted my Hawke to pack his bags and become a Pirate with Isabella and Fenris. Let them kill each other.

 

I actually wouldn't mind romancing Vivi but it would require her to change the Chant if she's Divine, so no thanks.  And I also wouldn't mind playing  a more low key PC next time...and we all know Vivi ain't giving it up for a low key man.

[Jaison1986]

I just wanted my Hawke to pack his bags and become a Pirate with Isabella and Fenris. Let them kill each other.

 

I actually wouldn't mind romancing Vivi but it would require her to change the Chant if she's Divine, so no thanks.  And I also wouldn't mind playing  a more low key PC next time...and we all know Vivi ain't giving it up for a low key man.

 

I actually agree with you on that. Just take Bethany and Merrill with me and launch into the unknown. I don't put the mages of Kirkwall on the pedestal, I simply find the templars there infinitely worse, after all I did killed my share of blood mages and abominations even when I sided with the mages.

[introverted_assassin]

Remember in the beginning...when we knew next to nothing about our companions...remember the viv/cass relational pics? I wasn't ALL about that but I am about that. Those were good times.

Anyway...I believe Viv would at least make a concerted effort to get to the root of whatever the problem may be in a Circle if RoA are being handed out like candy corn. And this ties into me believing she is a good tactician...not perfect but can plan ahead for possible fallouts or something.

I hate candy corn.

[Lumix19]

He was a Blood Mage and a stupid one at that, and he turned to Blood Magic for the same reason most weak Mages do, for power and to give himself an edge. It doesn't just depend on my definition but also Grand Enchanter Irving's opinion. And probably the Enchanters et al who report to him.

Jowan did not receive inadequate training, He received the same training as the Warden, Wynne, and every other Mage there. He was just an idiot with no talent who would sway easily to the influences of a demon. If the Fereldan Circle was inadequate in its training then the Mage Warden would have died much early on.

You get stripped of your title, that's it. My IQ still seemed to have enjoyed the pleasures of coming from noble house. Going home, Parties, et al. I'm not saying it's right to strip a Mage of their birthright, but a noble Mage still has their freedom to leave the Circle and visit home or even head to Tevinter and get set up quite nicely. That's not enough reason to hide and opt for crappy tutors. Especially for a noble.

I think Isolde was just stupid.

I meant that Connor's training was inadequate, Jowan's was perfectly fine. Irving's not the be all and end all of whether he was qualified.
Being stripped of your title is bad enough for most nobles, it means Connor can't inherit Redcliffe. And he doesn't have a sibling.
Isolde really should have just bribed a Circle mage but perhaps that's more difficult in Ferelden.

[Lumix19]

I just wanted my Hawke to pack his bags and become a Pirate with Isabella and Fenris. Let them kill each other.

I actually wouldn't mind romancing Vivi but it would require her to change the Chant if she's Divine, so no thanks. And I also wouldn't mind playing a more low key PC next time...and we all know Vivi ain't giving it up for a low key man.

Doesn't she already have to reinterpret the Chant as Divine? "Magic exists to serve man and never to rule over him" - the old interpretation of that rings a bit hollow now.

[Hazegurl]

Pretty much, but Vivi seems wise enough not to bombarded the masses with changes left and right unlike Mary Sue Leliana.  She's a drastic change to the Chantry but more grounded in reality.

[Lumix19]

Pretty much, but Vivi seems wise enough not to bombarded the masses with changes left and right unlike Mary Sue Leliana. She's a drastic change to the Chantry but more grounded in reality.

I would point out that reinterpreting that phrase could be seen as bringing herself more in line with Tevinter, that's the main reason for the Chantry schism in the first place - the reinterpretation of that line in the Chant. Not a precedent I imagine the masses would be happy with and a drastic change in the "wrong" direction (depending on perspective).

Depending on how Vivienne chooses to reinterpret that line the only other major difference between the Imperial and Andrastian Chantry could be their differing views on Andraste.

[In Exile]

It's kind of bizzare that post-mage rebellion the most ostensibly establishment candidate is the only one whose immediate election bears the strongest parallel to the creation of the modern Tevinter Imperium. Viviene's candidacy just doesn't make sense as being supported by the more hard-line members of the Chantry. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well, it wasn't. There were multiple rebellions immediately after her coronation. Giselle will say in Trespasser that her reign has not been as peaceful as she'd hoped. 

[In Exile]

Well, it wasn't. There were multiple rebellions immediately after her coronation. Giselle will say in Trespasser that her reign has not been as peaceful as she'd hoped. 

 

But it was. She's the candidate elected for the most hardline Inquisitors - the ones who favour the re-creating of the Circles of magi in as close to their original form as possible, and who are open in their support for a return to regular chantry orthordoxy. So to suck-up to this Inquisitor, and to Orlais/Celene... they elect a mage to the position of Divine, following a political rebellion by mages. That makes no sense. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

But it was. She's the candidate elected for the most hardline Inquisitors - the ones who favour the re-creating of the Circles of magi in as close to their original form as possible, and who are open in their support for a return to regular chantry orthordoxy. So to suck-up to this Inquisitor, and to Orlais/Celene... they elect a mage to the position of Divine, following a political rebellion by mages. That makes no sense.

Yet another reason why Vivienne should never be divine.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Well clearly somebody rebelled against her authority. Recreating the Circle of Magi the way it used to be would necessarily be something only hardliners in the Chantry would have approved. Presumably the most hardliners were the rebels.

[Xilizhra]

But it was. She's the candidate elected for the most hardline Inquisitors - the ones who favour the re-creating of the Circles of magi in as close to their original form as possible, and who are open in their support for a return to regular chantry orthordoxy. So to suck-up to this Inquisitor, and to Orlais/Celene... they elect a mage to the position of Divine, following a political rebellion by mages. That makes no sense. 

Actually, Cassandra seems closer to Chantry orthodoxy than Vivienne. Judging by the divine election criteria, the Inquisition's most "traditional" form, which would involve allying with the templars, is most beneficial to Cassandra. Conversational support for Chantry orthodoxy raises both of them about equally. Their other major splits are that Vivienne is less affected by the Grey Warden issue than Cassandra, and that Vivienne benefits from keeping the status quo in Orlais while Cassandra benefits by ousting Celene in favor of Gaspard.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Cassandra's Circle is less traditional than Vivienne's Circle. Mages govern themselves in Cassandra's Circle. In Vivienne's Circle it's basically still the Templars' job.

[Hazegurl]

I actually pick Vivi because she is the closest to Tevinter in terms of Mages potentially gaining real power in Southern Thedas.  An Inquisition soldier describes Vivienne best when they say that she says what others like to hear. I'm sure there is some truth to her words, but not all of it. She is playing the Game after all.  She's also smart enough not to make the same mistakes, such as weakening the Templar Order. It isn't 100% what I want. I want the Templars restructured into a police force but I can see how it could eventually lead down that route as more and more Mages enter the Chantry and gain political power et al.   I'm willing to bet anything that Vivi would choose another Mage to succeed her down the road.

 

Hearing about some of the trouble she's facing as Divine is one of the reasons my mage IQ didn't disband.  So I imagine him aiding her when needed while keeping the noose tight on Gaspard and Briala.

 

I don't see how Mages governing themselves in the Circle is a huge accomplishment for Cass as they were already doing just that.  It's just that the Mages responsible for making Circle decisions were too busy partying during their yearly meeting than actually doing anything about the troubles some Circles faced.

[Joe25]

I just thought of all the work that would go into making a Vivienne doll in full armor. I would need so much lace, cardboard and beads to get her breast plat and helmet done. I need to add this to things I could over winter break.

[Boost32]

But the ones who used "cleaner" forms of self-defense by killing their assaulters with old-fashioned flesh-bubbling fire or lightning were viable members of society, yeah? Or no... So, announce to someone that they will be killed for a crime they didn't commit, then use their inevitable violent response to justify said execution. An excellent progression of logic at play here. 

 

Wanna know why the Circle in Kirkwall didn't work? 

 

 

 

Smote by the peacekeepers, Kirkwall's own Champions of the Just.  Ex-Viscount Hawke knows what justice feels like firsthand. 

 

Like denouncing ISIS only to turn around and do business with the House of Saud. 

The templars were only a little better than the mages, I already told you that I see those mages worse than the templars.

And the Red Templars in Kirkwall I blame on cullen and Bioware bad writing to force Viscount Hawke to leave the city.

 

 

And not the templars? The only good riddance was that I had Hawke slaughter half of the order before leaving that wretched city. 

Not only you didnt killed half of the Order there, your Hawke actually lost and only survived because Cullen allowed.

[Boost32]

Yet another reason why Vivienne should never be divine.

Yet Leliana "reforms" are completely realistical.

[Jaison1986]

Not only you didnt killed half of the Order there, your Hawke actually lost and only survived because Cullen allowed.

 

You mean the Cullen that cowered in fear when Hawke gave him a nasty stare? While Hawke walked away like it was nobody's business? He didn't allowed it, he was smart enough to realize he and the others didn't stood a chance. Hawke slaughters his way through blood mages, templars, abominations, armies of demons, and you think a couple dozen of templars would stand a chance?