Not only you didnt killed half of the Order there, your Hawke actually lost and only survived because Cullen allowed.
Yet Leliana "reforms" are completely realistical.
Funny you say that considering even a pro Mage Hawke who sided with the mages is well loved in Kirkwall and is accepted back and helps Varric in Trespasser. Try harder next time.
Bet it stings to know your precious Templars hate Vivienne.
Ok, I dont know what you are saying right now. It doesnt have anything to do with what I said.
More realistic than being vehemently anti-Mage resulting in a Mage divine
Ofc it is.
You mean the Cullen that cowered in fear when Hawke gave him a nasty stare? While Hawke walked away like it was nobody's business? He didn't allowed it, he was smart enough to realize he and the others didn't stood a chance. Hawke slaughters his way through blood mages, templars, abominations, armies of demons, and you think a couple dozen of templars would stand a chance?
SO your Character was heavily outnumbered and surrounded, yet Cullen cowered in fear? Ok.
The templars were only a little better than the mages, I already told you that I see those mages worse than the templars.
And the Red Templars in Kirkwall I blame on cullen and Bioware bad writing to force Viscount Hawke to leave the city.
Why is it bad writing?
You know that the Order in Kirkwall is the largest military presence in the city by far, and that a not-insignificant amount of those Templars a crooked. A Hawke that acts in support of such an organization doesn't really have the right to be surprised when it stabs them in the back.
More realistic than being vehemently anti-Mage resulting in a Mage divine
How are any of the choices vehemently anti mage?
I conscripted the Mages/Templars and ended up with Vivi still. You can then remark about how Mages should be in the Chantry, and generally be anti Chantry. And the motivations are pretty much left up to the player. I conscripted the Mages in a pt because the Inquisition couldn't be seen as cosigning their stupid treasonous actions and it was better than having a bunch of mages shipped off to Tevinter as slaves/apprentices. In other words, my IQ was looking out for them, even though they were too dumb to know it.
Overall, I prefer to Ally with the Templars because I love Ser Barris and enjoy how the Templars are truly regretful and wish to make amends. Speaking of things that make no sense. How come allying with the Mages doesn't give us similar war table quests so we can see how the mages feel about their actions and the amends they wish to make by aiding their fellow Mages and the general public? Instead they just complain about not living in Luxury. 
You know that the Order in Kirkwall is the largest military presence in the city by far, and that a not-insignificant amount of those Templars a crooked. A Hawke that acts in support of such an organization doesn't really have the right to be surprised when it stabs them in the back.
Pretty much, and I say this as a Mage Hawke who sided with the Templars. The only thing that surprises me is why Hawke even stayed. I would have been half way around the world before Cullen could finish bestowing the Viscount title on me. lol!
SO your Character was heavily outnumbered and surrounded, yet Cullen cowered in fear? Ok.
As if being outnumbered meant anything to dragon age protagonists at this point. If there was actual combat gameplay against Cullen and his men, it would likely be a easy fight.
Why is it bad writing?
You know that the Order in Kirkwall is the largest military presence in the city by far, and that a not-insignificant amount of those Templars a crooked. A Hawke that acts in support of such an organization doesn't really have the right to be surprised when it stabs them in the back.
Because the Red Templars couldnt simply spread, attacked the head of state and no one noticed.
If they were a large force to threaten the Viscount, how they smuggled so much lyrium without Cullen and the others templar know?
If they were a small force, why Hawke simple didnt called the city guard after he was attacked?
Why Hawke didnt told Cullen about it?
How they could attack Hawke without anyone knowing?
And please, dont start acting like superdarkone, there is no need of it. And better support the templars than supporting Orsino.
Actually, Cassandra seems closer to Chantry orthodoxy than Vivienne. Judging by the divine election criteria, the Inquisition's most "traditional" form, which would involve allying with the templars, is most beneficial to Cassandra. Conversational support for Chantry orthodoxy raises both of them about equally. Their other major splits are that Vivienne is less affected by the Grey Warden issue than Cassandra, and that Vivienne benefits from keeping the status quo in Orlais while Cassandra benefits by ousting Celene in favor of Gaspard.
Cassandra has pretty radical views on how the Chantry should reorganize itself, particularly in regards to it re-dedicating its purpose, as well as her views on relationships with mages. Cassandra's opposition to Leliana's proposed changes is practical: she thinks too much change too fast will collapse the Chantry as an institution. She's not the orthodox candidate, compared to Vivene. She wants to re-dedicate the Chantry.
Viviene wants to restore it largely in the form that it was always in, except with her at the centre. To the extent that she proposes reforms, she proposes the kind that would personally benefit her. I suppose that's a way of saying she's not orthodox because she doesn't really even have a principle to advance, but she's more in favour of orthodoxy than Cassandra.
I actually pick Vivi because she is the closest to Tevinter in terms of Mages potentially gaining real power in Southern Thedas. An Inquisition soldier describes Vivienne best when they say that she says what others like to hear. I'm sure there is some truth to her words, but not all of it. She is playing the Game after all. She's also smart enough not to make the same mistakes, such as weakening the Templar Order. It isn't 100% what I want. I want the Templars restructured into a police force but I can see how it could eventually lead down that route as more and more Mages enter the Chantry and gain political power et al. I'm willing to bet anything that Vivi would choose another Mage to succeed her down the road.
Hearing about some of the trouble she's facing as Divine is one of the reasons my mage IQ didn't disband. So I imagine him aiding her when needed while keeping the noose tight on Gaspard and Briala.
I don't see how Mages governing themselves in the Circle is a huge accomplishment for Cass as they were already doing just that. It's just that the Mages responsible for making Circle decisions were too busy partying during their yearly meeting than actually doing anything about the troubles some Circles faced.
But she doesn't want a Tevinter. She doesn't even have a long-term goal beyond self-advancement. What she wants is to benefit Vivene, which is why her reign as Divine is such a mess. There isn't an agenda at the end of the road she's working towards beyond self-advancement, and it's such a pointless form of self-advancement that apart from the kind of guile it takes to navigate the system she doesn't really show any inspiring qualities. It's also why her Loyalists are so very useless in everything, during the course of the game.
Overall, I prefer to Ally with the Templars because I love Ser Barris and enjoy how the Templars are truly regretful and wish to make amends. Speaking of things that make no sense. How come allying with the Mages doesn't give us similar war table quests so we can see how the mages feel about their actions and the amends they wish to make by aiding their fellow Mages and the general public? Instead they just complain about not living in Luxury.
What do the mages have to apologize for, apart from their alleged actions during the rebellion? The sorts of things that the mages would be guilty of are very different from the templars.
What do the mages have to apologize for, apart from their alleged actions during the rebellion? The sorts of things that the mages would be guilty of are very different from the templars.
Actually there are war table missions to adress the damage they did in Redcliffe and the Inquisition paying reparations for the damage they did there.
But she doesn't want a Tevinter. She doesn't even have a long-term goal beyond self-advancement. What she wants is to benefit Vivene, which is why her reign as Divine is such a mess. There isn't an agenda at the end of the road she's working towards beyond self-advancement, and it's such a pointless form of self-advancement that apart from the kind of guile it takes to navigate the system she doesn't really show any inspiring qualities. It's also why her Loyalists are so very useless in everything, during the course of the game.
How is it such a mess? She united the Chantry and proved the mages were under her control, there is no more rebellions against her.
Actually there are war table missions to adress the damage they did in Redcliffe and the Inquisition paying reparations for the damage they did there.
That's what I meant. Apart from what they did during the rebellion, there isn't anything to make up for, because they didn't do anything. I wasn't very clear, though.
How is it such a mess? She united the Chantry and proved the mages were under her control, there is no more rebellions against her.
She doesn't unite the Chantry. Absent Inquisition support, she basically has a rebellion on her hands. And the Circles break away from her again. Keeping people in line for 2 years isn't really a "success". Trespasser ends in a rebellion against her.
But she doesn't want a Tevinter. She doesn't even have a long-term goal beyond self-advancement. What she wants is to benefit Vivene, which is why her reign as Divine is such a mess. There isn't an agenda at the end of the road she's working towards beyond self-advancement, and it's such a pointless form of self-advancement that apart from the kind of guile it takes to navigate the system she doesn't really show any inspiring qualities. It's also why her Loyalists are so very useless in everything, during the course of the game.
Vivi didn't get to where she is on short term goals. And I suggest you check out the slides that mention Mages having far more power than they had before, which should be consolidated through her to keep the Mages from running rampant and overly competing with each other. Her reign isn't a mess. It's facing natural and realistic resistance, unlike Leliana who murder knifes everyone who disagrees with her, run her halls red with blood, yet isn't a tyrant and doesn't face opposition from anyone.
What do the mages have to apologize for, apart from their alleged actions during the rebellion? The sorts of things that the mages would be guilty of are very different from the templars.
The war was fought by two parties and therefore it's up to the standing party to make amends for the destruction they've caused. If you think the Mages didn't hurt anyone then why did the Inquisition have to pay reparations for their mistakes? The Inquisition paying for them like a parent with an unruly child does not show me that the Mages are on the road to redemption.
Because the Red Templars couldnt simply spread, attacked the head of state and no one noticed.
If they were a large force to threaten the Viscount, how they smuggled so much lyrium without Cullen and the others templar know?
If they were a small force, why Hawke simple didnt called the city guard after he was attacked?
Why Hawke didnt told Cullen about it?
How they could attack Hawke without anyone knowing?
The timeline with Cullen's departure and the spread of Red Lyrium is unclear, yes. But the city guard had been toothless for a long time in comparison to the Templars, against Reds they would stand even less of a chance. Under Meredith's reign there were multiple large-scale conspiracies that neither her nor Cullen knew about, apparently. So, for the Gallows that's just business as usual.
And please, dont start acting like superdarkone, there is no need of it. And better support the templars than supporting Orsino.
It's not about supporting Orsino, it's about stirring the pot, delivering a much-needed shock to the broken Circle system that people can't ignore, as opposed to propping it up for the sake of expedience and pretending everything is fine.
Please man, do you at least know what you are talking about ?She doesn't unite the Chantry. Absent Inquisition support, she basically has a rebellion on her hands. And the Circles break away from her again. Keeping people in line for 2 years isn't really a "success". Trespasser ends in a rebellion against her.
There is no confusion, Hawke left before Cassandra's arrival. Cullen left with her.The timeline with Cullen's departure and the spread of Red Lyrium is unclear, yes. But the city guard had been toothless for a long time in comparison to the Templars, against Reds they would stand even less of a chance. Under Meredith's reign there were multiple large-scale conspiracies that neither her nor Cullen knew about, apparently. So, for the Gallows that's just business as usual.
It's not about supporting Orsino, it's about stirring the pot, delivering a much-needed shock to the broken Circle system that people can't ignore, as opposed to propping it up for the sake of expedience and pretending everything is fine.
*watched vid*
Whelp, it seems like Leliana is facing more resistance than I thought, or had at the start of Trespasser. According to Giselle, her reign over the last two years seem to be the weakest compared to Cass and Viv.
To be fair, the Leliana in the video is neither steeled or softned. If you do her quest, mother Giselle say another thing about her reign.*watched vid*
Whelp, it seems like Leliana is facing more resistance than I thought, or had at the start of Trespasser. According to Giselle, her reign over the last two years seem to be the weakest compared to Cass and Viv.
Red templars are pretty strong though, we know 3 can take on 12 without much issue. If only a quarter of Templars got corrupted that's enough to trounce the rest of the Templars, if more than that's certainly enough to deal with the City Guard too.There is no confusion, Hawke left before Cassandra's arrival. Cullen left with her.
Against a large force? Yes, but if they were a small force they could have handled it. And it was a small conspiracy, not a large one capable of threatening the Viscount. I get you dont like the templars in Kirkwall, but it doesnt make what happened good writing.
And in doing it you were supporting the abominations, blood mages and that madman. No thanks.
We already have that discussion, you think the templars were worse than the mages and I think the contrary, lets just move on now.
To be fair, the Leliana in the video is neither steeled or softned. If you do her quest, mother Giselle say another thing about her reign.
Oh yeah, I forgot about her flip floppity vapid personality.
The war was fought by two parties and therefore it's up to the standing party to make amends for the destruction they've caused. If you think the Mages didn't hurt anyone then why did the Inquisition have to pay reparations for their mistakes? The Inquisition paying for them like a parent with an unruly child does not show me that the Mages are on the road to redemption.
Teagan sends his complaints to the Inquisition, not the mage rebellion. The mages didn't really get a chance.
Oh yeah, I forgot about her flip floppity vapid personality.
After trespasser, I'm glad he got kicked out. Teagan can go to hell.Teagan sends his complaints to the Inquisition, not the mage rebellion. The mages didn't really get a chance.
Against a large force? Yes, but if they were a small force they could have handled it.
Assuming it was even a small force, probably not. Not Reds.
And it was a small conspiracy, not a large one capable of threatening the Viscount.
No, these were conspiracies of the scale "woah, a bunch of our guys were found dead in the Chantry and nobody seems to know why", "woah, why are there so many Tranquil that are not logged in our records... why don't we have any records?", "woah, how did a bunch of our guys strike out with mages and break into the house of the most important figure in Kirkwall" etc.
The Gallows was never an orderly or properly supervised force by any means.
And in doing it you were supporting the abominations, blood mages and that madman. No thanks.
No, because it's not facilitating the system that actually made Kirkwall the blood-mage-and-abomination capital of southern Thedas. As I told you before, it's treating the cause vs. treating the symptom.
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