1041 réponses à ce sujet

[MisterJB]

Wot says that the seekers annulled the rivaini circle because the mages could interact with their families not the possessions.

 

Do you have "The World of Thedas Volume 1" in your hands right now? Because I do.

First, "mixing freely with your families" and "training female mages in the tradition of the Seers" are mentioned in the same sentence with no indication whatsoever one was given proeminence over the other.

So, "Templars were more concerned with family business than the entire female population being possessed" is a fantasy you concocted in your mind.

Second, the letter also clearly states that the Right of Annulment was only invoked after there were already combats between mages and Templars with mages having the upper hand in early stages until said Right was invoked. Meaning, there is nothing that suggests "families" was the main reason for calling the Right. What the text outright states is that once the Right was invoked, Templars began to fight with much more brutality.

Therefore, the logical conclusion was that the Right was invoked so the Templars could fight in earnest.

 

So, stop spreading misinformation.
 

[Lumix19]

Do you have "The World of Thedas Volume 1" in your hands right now? Because I do.
First, "mixing freely with your families" and "training female mages in the tradition of the Seers" are mentioned in the same sentence with no indication whatsoever one was given proeminence over the other.
So, "Templars were more concerned with family business than the entire female population being possessed" is a fantasy you concocted in your mind.

Second, the letter also clearly states that the Right of Annulment was only invoked after there were already combats between mages and Templars with mages having the upper hand in early stages until said Right was invoked. Meaning, there is nothing that suggests "families" was the main reason for calling the Right. What the text outright states is that once the Right was invoked, Templars began to fight with much more brutality.
Therefore, the logical conclusion was that the Right was invoked so the Templars could fight in earnest.

So, stop spreading misinformation.

Entire female population being possessed? That's a gross exaggeration. You would do well not to spread such misinformation yourself.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Entire female population being possessed? That's a gross exaggeration. You would do well not to spread such misinformation yourself.

Don't forget how he didn't mention that the Templars let the seeds be provided they also help out the Templars, not to mention his hypocrisy of 'everyone except my family has to go to a circle'

[The Baconer]

No, its Hawke.

 

It's definitely Varric. 

 

 

Not putting them down and helping them to get loose. I didnt side with Orsino.

 

They've been getting loose for a long time, from right across the water, at the Gallows. Putting down the rebellion won't change any of that when the application of the Circle system remains the same. If it weren't for the larger rebellion, the Seekers would have felt satisfied in assuming Meredith's methods were justified, as even the Champion agreed. There you go, even more abominations and blood mages than before!

 

It's like trying to remedy homelessness in your city by going out and killing all the homeless people. 

[Boost32]

It's definitely Varric. 
 
 

 
They've been getting loose for a long time, from right across the water, at the Gallows. Putting down the rebellion won't change any of that when the application of the Circle system remains the same. If it weren't for the larger rebellion, the Seekers would have felt satisfied in assuming Meredith's methods were justified, as even the Champion agreed. There you go, even more abominations and blood mages than before!
 
It's like trying to remedy homelessness in your city by going out and killing all the homeless people.

Common Baconer, do you even clicked in the link? If you did, you would know its about Hawke.

And by putting them all down, no more abominations or blood mages.

[thesuperdarkone2]

It's definitely Varric.



They've been getting loose for a long time, from right across the water, at the Gallows. Putting down the rebellion won't change any of that when the application of the Circle system remains the same. If it weren't for the larger rebellion, the Seekers would have felt satisfied in assuming Meredith's methods were justified, as even the Champion agreed. There you go, even more abominations and blood mages than before!

It's like trying to remedy homelessness in your city by going out and killing all the homeless people.

Don't forget how if you side with the Templars, she said that afterwards she would make mages fear the circle. That is pretty much a recipe for disaster. Also, funny how boost forgets to mention the Templars sent death squads to kill nonmages

[Boost32]

Don't forget how if you side with the Templars, she said that afterwards she would make mages fear the circle. That is pretty much a recipe for disaster. Also, funny how boost forgets to mention the Templars sent death squads to kill nonmages

Funny how you keep bringing up things we arent talking about.
Do you forget where I said the templars were bad too in Kirkwall? But the mages were the greater evil there.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Funny how you keep bringing up things we arent talking about.
Do you forget where I said the templars were bad too in Kirkwall? But the mages were the greater evil there.

The fact that Meredith is never depicted positively and her harsh treatment of mages was said to be a BAD thing, I'd say she was the real evil.

[Lumix19]

Common Baconer, do you even clicked in the link? If you did, you would know its about Hawke.

And by putting them all down, no more abominations or blood mages.

Until the next batch of mages come into their power and you put them into the same system that created the abominations and blood mages the last time.
"Welcome to the Circle! In about 5 years half of you will be abominations and/or blood mages! We are doing the Maker's work! This is for your protection!"

[MisterJB]

Entire female population being possessed? That's a gross exaggeration. You would do well not to spread such misinformation yourself.

"Training female mages in the traditions of the Seers" means "having female mages be possessed". Do you have any indication the possessed ones are only a percentage of the female population?

Because I have the book in my hands and there is none.

 

Therefore the conclusion is, the entire female population of the Rivaini Circle was possessed.
 

 

Don't forget how he didn't mention that the Templars let the seeds be provided they also help out the Templars,

First of all, the fact that you chose to latch on to someone who supports your side rather than adress what I wrote means you have no means of adressing it and are not even willing to take me on yourself

 

Second, the fact that Rivaini Templars usually let Seers be is entirely irrelevant to the question of why other Templars called for a Right of Annulment. It does not support your previous position in any way.

It's not even an argument, you quoted a fact. Saying "Don't forget how he didn't mention that Oghren's beard is red" would have been as relevant to the discussion.

 

not to mention his hypocrisy of 'everyone except my family has to go to a circle'

Again, quoting facts, not making arguments.

 

Also, I find it amusing that youkeep repeating it. It's almost as if you believe I care what you think.

 

 

[Jaison1986]

Common Baconer, do you even clicked in the link? If you did, you would know its about Hawke.

And by putting them all down, no more abominations or blood mages.

 

Oh, so it's sunshine and rainbowns? No templar would ever abuse their station again? No mage would ever feel desperate? And blood mages and abominations would never happen again? Please, do share how Hawke would ever solve these problems?

 

I honestly can't tell if this is delusion or trolling at this point.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Oh, so it's sunshine and rainbowns? No templar would ever abuse their station again? No mage would ever feel desperate? And blood mages and abominations would never happen again? Please, do share how Hawke would ever solve these problems?

I honestly can't tell if this is delusion or trolling at this point.

i think it's both. Just look at his rants in the Samson thread. Funny how that attitude seems prevalent among Templar supporters

[The Baconer]

Common Baconer, do you even clicked in the link? If you did, you would know its about Hawke.

 

What about the link? The person who did the most for Kirkwall is its current Viscount. 

 

 

And by putting them all down, no more abominations or blood mages.

 

If one genuinely wanted to stop abominations and blood mages from ravaging Kirkwall, they wouldn't facilitate that system that puts out more blood mages and abominations than anywhere else. 

 

I wonder how many analogies we can burn through as you chronically miss the point. Let's try another: It's like trying to de-weed your yard by clipping off all the leaves. 

[Lumix19]

"Training female mages in the traditions of the Seers" means "having female mages be possessed". Do you have any indication the possessed ones are only a percentage of the female population?
Because I have the book in my hands and there is none.

Therefore the conclusion is, the entire female population of the Rivaini Circle was possessed.


First of all, the fact that you chose to latch on to someone who supports your side rather than adress what I wrote means you have no means of adressing it and are not even willing to take me on yourself

Second, the fact that Rivaini Templars usually let Seers be is entirely irrelevant to the question of why other Templars called for a Right of Annulment. It does not support your previous position in any way.
It's not even an argument, you quoted a fact. Saying "Don't forget how he didn't mention that Oghren's beard is red" would have been as relevant to the discussion.

Again, quoting facts, not making arguments.

Also, I find it amusing that youkeep repeating it. It's almost as if you believe I care what you think.

Do you have any information that it was the entire population? You are making the claim.
Besides seers are village leaders, it wouldn't make sense to train all female mages to be leaders.

[MisterJB]

Oh, so it's sunshine and rainbowns? No templar would ever abuse their station again? No mage would ever feel desperate? And blood mages and abominations would never happen again? Please, do share how Hawke would ever solve these problems?

 

I honestly can't tell if this is delusion or trolling at this point.

 

Now now, Jaison. Pro-mages so often point out how their "solutions" can't provide absolute security but they should be accepted anyway and now you are the ones asking for a fail proof system?

 

[Boost32]

The fact that Meredith is never depicted positively and her harsh treatment of mages was said to be a BAD thing, I'd say she was the real evil.

And Orsino was better because of what?

Until the next batch of mages come into their power and you put them into the same system that created the abominations and blood mages the last time.
"Welcome to the Circle! In about 5 years half of you will be abominations and/or blood mages! We are doing the Maker's work! This is for your protection!"

The templars in Kirkwall were a problem too, but I will not blind my eyes to the mages turning into abominations or to blood magic. I'm not going to blame the templars because the mages have choosen to go to that path.

Oh, so it's sunshine and rainbowns? No templar would ever abuse their station again? No mage would ever feel desperate? And blood mages and abominations would never happen again? Please, do share how Hawke would ever solve these problems?

I honestly can't tell if this is delusion or trolling at this point.

And how it turned out for your Hawke? How he helped to prevent the blood mages and abominations? Congratulations for helping them.

And please, if you cant argue and have to call others troll, you should just stay away from the discussion.

[MisterJB]

Do you have any information that it was the entire population? You are making the claim.
Besides seers are village leaders, it wouldn't make sense to train all female mages to be leaders.

The fact that we are told female mages, general term, were trained in the ways of the Seers which means being possessed.

Why not? How many traditional villages are there in Rivain? How many Seers per village? How many female mages total in a nation? How many requiring replacements?

Do you think not all mages in Tevinter are trained for authority?
 

[The Baconer]

Do you think not all mages in Tevinter are trained for authority?

 

They're not... Kind of shot yourself in the foot, there. 

[Boost32]

What about the link? The person who did the most for Kirkwall is its current Viscount. 
 
 

 
If one genuinely wanted to stop abominations and blood mages from ravaging Kirkwall, they wouldn't facilitate that system that puts out more blood mages and abominations than anywhere else. 
 
I wonder how many analogies we can burn through as you chronically miss the point. Let's try another: It's like trying to de-weed your yard by clipping off all the leaves.

We where talking about what Hawke did more to Kirkwall.

Neither would side with them. I'm not missing the point, I just dont agree with you.

[MisterJB]

They're not... Kind of shot yourself in the foot, there. 

 

Did not think I had to specify free mages but there you go.
 

[thesuperdarkone2]

They're not... Kind of shot yourself in the foot, there. 

I just love how templar supporters do the exact same thing they claim mage supporters do.

[The Baconer]

We where talking about what Hawke did more to Kirkwall.

 

The one who addressed its biggest problem, instead of putting a band-aid on it. 

 

 

Neither would side with them. 

 

Of course it would. The rebellion isn't clean or adequately contained, proper attention will be turned to Kirkwall, dialogues will be opened to determine why the Gallows had deteriorated in the first place. 

 

The alternative: Rebellion stamped out, Champion lends their support. Business goes on as usual. 

 

 

Did not think I had to specify free mages but there you go.

 

Why would you not have to specify free mages, when using a phrase as absolute as "all mages"? 

[MisterJB]

I just love how templar supporters do the exact same thing they claim mage supporters do.

 

I love how you keep quoting anyone who argues with me while adding your own little quip, acting as if you have somehow defeated an argument.

 

You're like the little kid who latches onto a group of bullies so you can have some leftovers.
 

[Jaison1986]

And how it turned out for your Hawke? How he helped to prevent the blood mages and abominations? Congratulations for helping them.

And please, if you cant argue and have to call others troll, you should just stay away from the discussion.

 

I can't prevent blood mages and abominations that already exist. And those who revealed themselves were slain, one way or the other. What I did was to save the lives of mages that were put to death sentence because an abomination in fancy armor decided they should pay for the crimes of an apostate that was not related to them. Perhaps Hawke could have helped the mages in the long term if the templar order didn't got in the way.

 

I will not stay out of the discussion. If you are not a troll, then it means you are utterly simple minded and unable to see the world beyond your pitfully narrow perspective. I cannot have a constructive discussion with a person that is so ignorant. You think that controlling people like a mad tyrant will fix all your problems, that you have all the answers, that your solutions are absolutes, and supporting some outdated status quo is all it takes to make the world a better place. I bet you never had to worry about corrupt leadership making life hell were you live, right?

[MisterJB]

Why would you not have to specify free mages, when using a phrase as absolute as "all mages"? 

Oh, I assume my interlocutors understand what is implicit.

It may be a mistake at times, I admit.