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[The Baconer]

She's a magister, even if she doesn't want to admit it :>

[sandalisthemaker]

She's a magister, even if she doesn't want to admit it :>

 

Except that she keeps magic in check instead of letting it run rampant.  Instead of using it to rule over people.  (As Divine.) Very much unlike a magister. 

 

 

Her magic has never improved her standing in the world. She got to where she was in spite of it. The intimidation factor is the only thing she has gained from being a mage. 

[Xilizhra]

Except that she keeps magic in check instead of letting it run rampant.  Instead of using it to rule over people.  (As Divine.) Very much unlike a magister. 

 

 

Her magic has never improved her standing in the world. She got to where she was in spite of it. The intimidation factor is the only thing she has gained from being a mage. 

That's only because that kind of thing is looked down on in the south. If she lived in Tevinter, she'd go through at least a slave a day for power boosts, because that's what's necessary to keep up.

[sandalisthemaker]

That's only because that kind of thing is looked down on in the south. If she lived in Tevinter, she'd go through at least a slave a day for power boosts, because that's what's necessary to keep up.

 

But she doesn't live in Tevinter. People's life experiences can affect them in a myriad of ways, so there isn't even a guarantee that she would be the same type of person she is now if she grew up in Tevinter.  

[The Baconer]

Except that she keeps magic in check instead of letting it run rampant.  Instead of using it to rule over people.  (As Divine.) Very much unlike a magister. 

 

Keeping potential competitors in check is characteristically Tevinter.

 

 

Her magic has never improved her standing in the world. She got to where she was in spite of it. The intimidation factor is the only thing she has gained from being a mage. 

 

Oh, she has a body count. Ice sculptures and such. But that's the political game in Orlais, and she admits as much. It's basically Tevinter lite.

 

When I called her a magister, I didn't mean it in a negative connotation.

[Xilizhra]

But she doesn't live in Tevinter. People's life experiences can affect them in a myriad of ways, so there isn't even a guarantee that she would be the same type of person she is now if she grew up in Tevinter.  

I'm just saying that you can't actually give her props for not using magic to rule over people when that isn't allowed in the south. That's like praising the segregationist governor George Wallace for not having slaves.

[Boost32]

I'm just saying that you can't actually give her props for not using magic to rule over people when that isn't allowed in the south. That's like praising the segregationist governor George Wallace for not having slaves.

Ofc we can, specially when the rebellion mages went nuts and she stayed with her convictions.

[Xilizhra]

Ofc we can, specially when the rebellion mages went nuts and she stayed with her convictions.

The mage rebellion never did use magic to rule over anyone, so that's rather a non sequitur.

[phishface]

Let's look at what she actually says about Tevinter:

 

• Dorian: I'm not here on behalf of my nation's reputation, Vivienne. I'm here to do what is right.
• Vivienne: If only more of your countrymen felt as you do.

and

• Dorian: Vivienne, are you saying you wouldn't rather live in a land where mages aren't herded into cages like dogs?
• Vivienne: Which land is that? The one where mages are feared and despised as tyrants?

What Dorian says about her views:

• Dorian: I mock Orlesian frippery and nonsense, you [Vivienne] mock Tevinter decadence and tyranny.

So she isn't a fan of Tevinter, or tyranny, at all.

 

But despite that, look at how she reacts to prejudice against Dorian as a Tevinter - she defends him:

 

(If the Inquisitor is in a romance with Dorian)

• Vivienne: I received a letter the other day, Dorian.
• Dorian: Truly? It's nice to know you have friends.
• Vivienne: It was from an acquaintance in Tevinter expressing his shock at the disturbing rumors about your... relationship with the Inquisitor.
• Dorian: Rumors you were only too happy to verify, I assume.
• Vivienne: I informed him the only disturbing thing in evidence was his penmanship.
• Dorian: ...Oh. Thank you.
• Vivienne: I am not so quick to judge, darling. See that you give me no reason to feel otherwise.

[Iakus]

None of that is remotely reliable except for the one about Cole, maybe. And then she has to forget he's a spirit to care about him at all.

SHe genuinely cared about Bastien, even if you miss the clues in DAI, WoT volume 2 confirmed this.  Their relationship harmed both their reputations, but they carried on anyway.

 

For Cole, she has to come to accept that he is a spirit, not a demon.  Which over time does happen

 

Vivienne gets along fine with Iron Bull, even if she does have him a bit cowed.  Their banters include discussions on how best to combine their tactics, Vivienne giving IB fashion advice, and assurances that she'll protect him from any demons they encounter.

 

And of course she cares about the Inquisitor if you have a good relationship with her.  SPA DAY!!!

[Mrs_Stick]

Okay for those that like Vivienne does she get less mean? I always feel like she is talking down to me and it's annoying but I really want to get to know her better just want to see if it's worth my constant eye rolling.

[Xilizhra]

 

Let's look at what she actually says about Tevinter:

 

• Dorian: I'm not here on behalf of my nation's reputation, Vivienne. I'm here to do what is right.
• Vivienne: If only more of your countrymen felt as you do.

and

• Dorian: Vivienne, are you saying you wouldn't rather live in a land where mages aren't herded into cages like dogs?
• Vivienne: Which land is that? The one where mages are feared and despised as tyrants?

What Dorian says about her views:

• Dorian: I mock Orlesian frippery and nonsense, you [Vivienne] mock Tevinter decadence and tyranny.

So she isn't a fan of Tevinter, or tyranny, at all.

Since Vivienne is perfectly happy to be feared and despised in other conversations (like the one with Varric, where she has no problem being perceived as a villain), this strikes me as inconsistent.

 

 

 

But despite that, look at how she reacts to prejudice against Dorian as a Tevinter - she defends him:

 

(If the Inquisitor is in a romance with Dorian)

• Vivienne: I received a letter the other day, Dorian.
• Dorian: Truly? It's nice to know you have friends.
• Vivienne: It was from an acquaintance in Tevinter expressing his shock at the disturbing rumors about your... relationship with the Inquisitor.
• Dorian: Rumors you were only too happy to verify, I assume.
• Vivienne: I informed him the only disturbing thing in evidence was his penmanship.
• Dorian: ...Oh. Thank you.
• Vivienne: I am not so quick to judge, darling. See that you give me no reason to feel otherwise.

 

This isn't prejudice against Dorian as a Tevinter, this is prejudice from a different Tevinter. In any case, why would she let an outsider get any sort of leverage over part of the Inquisition?

 

 

SHe genuinely cared about Bastien, even if you miss the clues in DAI, WoT volume 2 confirmed this.  Their relationship harmed both their reputations, but they carried on anyway.

 

For Cole, she has to come to accept that he is a spirit, not a demon.  Which over time does happen

 

Vivienne gets along fine with Iron Bull, even if she does have him a bit cowed.  Their banters include discussions on how best to combine their tactics, Vivienne giving IB fashion advice, and assurances that she'll protect him from any demons they encounter.

 

And of course she cares about the Inquisitor if you have a good relationship with her.  SPA DAY!!!

Doesn't she do the spa thing even if you're not friends?

Truly, though, I'd have no problem with Vivienne as a character if she could be killed, and I believe that I do have sufficient cause to do so, as I see her as a threat to the order my Inquisition hopes to build. As it is, she adds nothing to the game for me.

[Iakus]

 

Let's look at what she actually says about Tevinter:

 

• Dorian: I'm not here on behalf of my nation's reputation, Vivienne. I'm here to do what is right.
• Vivienne: If only more of your countrymen felt as you do.

and

• Dorian: Vivienne, are you saying you wouldn't rather live in a land where mages aren't herded into cages like dogs?
• Vivienne: Which land is that? The one where mages are feared and despised as tyrants?

What Dorian says about her views:

• Dorian: I mock Orlesian frippery and nonsense, you [Vivienne] mock Tevinter decadence and tyranny.

So she isn't a fan of Tevinter, or tyranny, at all.

 

But despite that, look at how she reacts to prejudice against Dorian as a Tevinter - she defends him:

 

(If the Inquisitor is in a romance with Dorian)

• Vivienne: I received a letter the other day, Dorian.
• Dorian: Truly? It's nice to know you have friends.
• Vivienne: It was from an acquaintance in Tevinter expressing his shock at the disturbing rumors about your... relationship with the Inquisitor.
• Dorian: Rumors you were only too happy to verify, I assume.
• Vivienne: I informed him the only disturbing thing in evidence was his penmanship.
• Dorian: ...Oh. Thank you.
• Vivienne: I am not so quick to judge, darling. See that you give me no reason to feel otherwise.

 

Dorian: Vivienne, we can continue this dance forever, if you wish.
Vivienne: Presuming both of us are capable.
Dorian: I mock Orlesian frippery and nonsense, you mock Tevinter decadence and tyranny.
Dorian: There is, however, something far more important we should remember.
Vivienne: Just what might that be?
Dorian: At least we're not Antivan.
Vivienne: Quite right. Thank the Maker.

 

[Ryzaki]

Okay for those that like Vivienne does she get less mean? I always feel like she is talking down to me and it's annoying but I really want to get to know her better just want to see if it's worth my constant eye rolling.

 

You mean the my dear? I found it more fond myself. But no that doesn't stop. It takes on more of a fond tone as her approval goes up though.

[Iakus]

Okay for those that like Vivienne does she get less mean? I always feel like she is talking down to me and it's annoying but I really want to get to know her better just want to see if it's worth my constant eye rolling.

With a good relationship her tone seems to be that of a mentor, guiding you through the political landscape.  She's no less...shark-like.  But she's your shark.  

[Xilizhra]

Dorian: Vivienne, we can continue this dance forever, if you wish.
Vivienne: Presuming both of us are capable.
Dorian: I mock Orlesian frippery and nonsense, you mock Tevinter decadence and tyranny.
Dorian: There is, however, something far more important we should remember.
Vivienne: Just what might that be?
Dorian: At least we're not Antivan.
Vivienne: Quite right. Thank the Maker.

 

Well, Dorian's not perfect.

 

 

With a good relationship her tone seems to be that of a mentor, guiding you through the political landscape.  She's no less...shark-like.  But she's your shark.  

She's really not. If Leliana is Divine, she'll turn on you the instant Trespasser is over and attempt to destabilize the College.

[SgtSteel91]

 

She's really not. If Leliana is Divine, she'll turn on you the instant Trespasser is over and attempt to destabilize the College.

 

Thinking on it, I think she doesn't want to destabilize the College; she probably thinks they'll do it to themselves and the Circle she makes would act as a 'safety net' for the Mages left to the wolves if/when the College fails.

[Boost32]

The mage rebellion never did use magic to rule over anyone, so that's rather a non sequitur.

Tell it to the mages supremacists in the Hintherlands, the rebel mages who turned to on other mages (http://dragonage.wik...he_Wending_Wood) and those in Redcliff who sided with Tevinter.

[Xilizhra]

Tell it to the mages supremacists in the Hintherlands, the rebel mages who turned to on other mages (http://dragonage.wik...he_Wending_Wood) and those in Redcliff who sided with Tevinter.

Bandits, nonexistent in my playthrough, and those trapped by a bad deal respectively.

 

 

Thinking on it, I think she doesn't want to destabilize the College; she probably thinks they'll do it to themselves and the Circle she makes would act as a 'safety net' for the Mages left to the wolves if/when the College fails.

It might be best that she doesn't pollute the College by her presence anyway, but this would be so much better if we could simply kill her.

[SgtSteel91]

Tell it to the mages supremacists in the Hintherlands, the rebel mages who turned to blood magic (http://dragonage.wik...he_Wending_Wood) and those in Redcliff who sided with Tevinter.

 

The real Mage Rebellion does not support what Mages are doing in the Hinterlands, ally with the Mages and the Wending Woods incident doesn't happen, and those who sided with Tevinter did so because they were backed into a corner and manipulated by a Mage who used time travel to get to the moment when their fears were at the greatest and play on those fears with undercover agents.

[The Baconer]

So she isn't a fan of Tevinter, or tyranny, at all.

I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure there are many who would describe her reign as tyranny. There's also another conversation she has with Dorian where she states (paraphrasing here) "Kill the ones who don't submit. Then we deal with the rest."

[Boost32]

Bandits, nonexistent in my playthrough, and those trapped by a bad deal respectively.
 
 

It might be best that she doesn't pollute the College by her presence anyway, but this would be so much better if we could simply kill her.

All rebel mages who abused their power.

The real Mage Rebellion does not support what Mages are doing in the Hinterlands, ally with the Mages and the Wending Woods incident doesn't happen, and those who sided with Tevinter did so because they were backed into a corner and manipulated by a Mage who used time travel to seed fear with spies at a time when their fear was at their greatest.

They are real Rebel Mages too, they came to Himtherlands with the other Rebels, and the "real rebel" let them roam free while they said they would combat them (http://dragonage.wik...ry:_Rebel_Mages).
They exist, you just doesnt deal with them, still they are rebel mages who abused their power.
And they March on the Inquisition willingly (no, there is no brainwash).

Yet Vivienne never did any of those.

[Boost32]

I wouldn't go that far. I'm sure there are many who would describe her reign as tyranny. There's also another conversation she has with Dorian where she states (paraphrasing here) "Kill the ones who don't submit. Then we deal with the rest."

I think this conversation is with the Inquisitor where he ask Viv what a good Divine should do.

[Xilizhra]

All rebel mages who abused their power.

As Vivienne did with Alphonse, but no one complains about that. Vivienne also abuses the hell out of her political power as Divine.