1041 réponses à ce sujet

[SgtSteel91]

 

They are real Rebel Mages too, they came to Himtherlands with the other Rebels, and the "real rebel" let them roam free while they said they would combat them (http://dragonage.wik...ry:_Rebel_Mages).
They exist, you just doesnt deal with them, still they are rebel mages who abused their power.
And they March on the Inquisition willingly (no, there is no brainwash).

Yet Vivienne never did any of those.

 

They could have dealt with the extremists if the Free Mages if weren't hounded and beaten down by the Templars for a year.

Getting hounded and beaten by the Templars also means they don't really have any much choice when Tevinter come to take them or the Inquisition makes them conscripts.

Vivienne never did any of those because she never supported the rebellion, never had any Templars try to kill her, and wasnt backed into a corner like the Rebellion was.

[Boost32]

As Vivienne did with Alphonse, but no one complains about that. Vivienne also abuses the hell out of her political power as Divine.

No one complain because she didnt abuse her power at all. The Inquisitor ask her to kill him and she explain how it was justified.
Abuse how Xil?

[Boost32]

They could have dealt with the extremists if the Free Mages if weren't hounded and beaten down by the Templars for a year.

Excuses, there werent any templar army there. Just a bunch of templars deserters whose numbers were equal to the extremista rebels.
There is no excuse for what the "Real Rebel Mages" let happen in the Hintherlands.

[Xilizhra]

No one complain because she didnt abuse her power at all. The Inquisitor ask her to kill him and she explain how it was justified.
Abuse how Xil?

So abuse is only abuse when it's illegal?

[Boost32]

So abuse is only abuse when it's illegal?

Here for you Xil: http://youtu.be/M3acfzqPYpQ

Still wanting for you to show me how she abused her power as Divine.

[SgtSteel91]

Excuses, there werent any templar army there. Just a bunch of templars deserters ****** numbers were equal to the extremista rebels.
There is no excuse for what the "Real Rebel Mages" let happen in the Hintherlands.

 

They probably didnt have the strength to combat the extremists because they spent it all trying to survive the past year. Makes as much sense why they don't fight back when Tevinter or the Inquisition conscripts them.

[Xilizhra]

Here for you Xil:

Then, the Inquisitor is equally culpable. I certainly won't deny that.

I like that the title of the video is the title of a movie about a horrible murder, by the way.
 

 

Still wanting for you to show me how she abused her power as Divine.

Starting a war, slaughtering many of the mages she claimed to (but obviously didn't) want to protect.

[Boost32]

They probably didnt have the strength to combat the extremists because they spent it all trying to survive the past year. Makes as much sense why they don't fight back when Tevinter or the Inquisition conscripts them.

With the exception they fight the Inquisition when they are conscripted, like attacking the Inquisition templars or attacking a guard to escape.
They have larger number then them, so it doesnt excuse them.

Then, the Inquisitor is equally culpable. I certainly won't deny that.
I like that the title of the video is the title of a movie about a horrible murder, by the way.



Starting a war, slaughtering many of the mages she claimed to (but obviously didn't) want to protect.

It doesnt matter the title, as you can see it was legal to kill him, you can try to spin it all you want.

She didnt start a war, the revolt was formed do remove her from the throne, she answered in kind.
The mages tried to rebel again, she put them down and when they surrendered she spared them. Thats what you do to rebels, before they starting doing bad things like the previous rebellion did.

[Xilizhra]

It doesnt matter the title, as you can see it was legal to kill him, you can try to spin it all you want.

Just because it's not illegal doesn't mean that's not abusive.

 

 

She didnt start a war, the revolt was formed do remove her from the throne, she answered in kind.
The mages tried to rebel again, she put them down and when they surrendered she spared them. Thats what you do to rebels, before they starting doing bad things like the previous rebellion did.

If you allied with the mages, she murders as many as she can and leashes the rest.

[phishface]

I guess it's partly whether you can accept that an opinion you disagree with is nevertheless reasonable.

 

Vivienne sees mages as potentially dangerous, and therefore in need of restrictions. Her solution is the one that, up until recently but for hundreds of years, has worked:

 

In 1:20 Divine, the Chantry and the Inquisition signed the Nevarran Accord, and created the Circle of Magi to regulate the use and systematic training of magic throughout Thedas. The Templar Order was created to catch mages who refused to join the Circle and monitor the mage societies and the Seekers of Truth created to root out corruption

 

You may disagree with her that the Circle remains a viable option, but given the tumult in Thedas, and the thousands of ordinary people who have been killed and displaced by the mage/templar conflict, you've got to accept that at least Vivienne is looking for a solution that will bring peace and stability back, and it's worked before.

 

Also, there are mages who didn't mind the Circle, like that one by the bar in the Redcliff tavern. And they're a hell of a lot more reasonable than maniac possessed terrorist Anders, or maniac addicted to repeatedly destroying the world Solas, or has no clue what she's messing with but will go ahead and do it anyway Morrigan.

 

(Sorry, got a bit carried away there...)

 

[Xilizhra]

I guess it's partly whether you can accept that an opinion you disagree with is nevertheless reasonable.

 

Vivienne sees mages as potentially dangerous, and therefore in need of restrictions. Her solution is the one that, up until recently but for hundreds of years, has worked:

There are several mages whose opinion I disagree with on the Circle, such as Minaeve, whom I see as reasonable. Vivienne, on the other hand, is an evil power-hungry ******.

 

 

You may disagree with her that the Circle remains a viable option, but given the tumult in Thedas, and the thousands of ordinary people who have been killed and displaced by the mage/templar conflict, you've got to accept that at least Vivienne is looking for a solution that will bring peace and stability back, and it's worked before.

 

Also, there are mages who didn't mind the Circle, like that one by the bar in the Redcliff tavern. And they're a hell of a lot more reasonable than maniac possessed terrorist Anders, or maniac addicted to repeatedly destroying the world Solas, or has no clue what she's messing with but will go ahead and do it anyway Morrigan.

 

(Sorry, got a bit carried away there...)

She's looking for a solution keeping her in power, and will kill as many people as needed to get it.

[sandalisthemaker]

So she wants to nip threats in the bud before they get out of control. 

[Xilizhra]

So she wants to nip threats in the bud before they get out of control. 

So why can't we do the same to her?

[sandalisthemaker]

So why can't we do the same to her?

 

Because she has the plot armor of potentially being Divine. As does Cass and Leliana.

[phishface]

There are several mages whose opinion I disagree with on the Circle, such as Minaeve, whom I see as reasonable. Vivienne, on the other hand, is an evil power-hungry ******.

 

 

She's looking for a solution keeping her in power, and will kill as many people as needed to get it.

 

Is it evil to seek power so you can achieve what you think is right and necessary? That's pretty much what all politicians do in democracies isn't it?

 

I think saying she'll kill as many people as needed to get power is going a bit far. She's all about political manoeuvring. Certainly the Game seems to involve killing, but it's hardly her invention - she's playing someone else's game according to the accepted rules.

[Xilizhra]

Because she has the plot armor of potentially being Divine. As does Cass and Leliana.

That makes no sense, since you can remove her from the possibility of being Divine if you don't recruit her.

 

 

Is it evil to seek power so you can achieve what you think is right and necessary? That's pretty much what all politicians do in democracies isn't it?

Sometimes, it's what you see as right and necessary that makes you evil, combine with the things you're willing to do to get there.

[KaiserShep]

You couldn't convince me that Vivienne is actually evil. An uppity friggin sorceress, sure, but evil? Meh.

[The Baconer]

Is it evil to seek power so you can achieve what you think is right and necessary? That's pretty much what all politicians do in democracies isn't it?

Dangerous train of thought there.

[phishface]

Sometimes, it's what you see as right and necessary that makes you evil, combine with the things you're willing to do to get there.

 

Wait a minute, didn't you say:

 

 

There are several mages whose opinion I disagree with on the Circle, such as Minaeve, whom I see as reasonable.

 

Vivienne's opinion is basically the same as Minaeve's. Which you say is reasonable.

 

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but I'm confused now.

[ComedicSociopathy]

You couldn't convince me that Vivienne is actually evil. An uppity friggin sorceress, sure, but evil? Meh.

 

Yeah. She's not evil. Just Orlesian, which is pretty close to evil but not quite there. 

[Xilizhra]

Vivienne's opinion is basically the same as Minaeve's. Which you say is reasonable.

 

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but I'm confused now.

Minaeve is afraid of magical danger coming down on her, personally. Vivienne believes that every other mage is too weak and stupid to handle magic and has to be controlled.

[Arlee]

She's really not. If Leliana is Divine, she'll turn on you the instant Trespasser is over and attempt to destabilize the College.

 

If you allied with the mages, she murders as many as she can and leashes the rest.

 

Nope. She only does that if Leilana is Divine, if Cass is she acquiesces to her request to play nicely.

[SgtSteel91]

Nope. She only does that if Leilana is Divine, if Cass is she acquiesces to her request to play nicely.

 

The only things she does when Leliana is Divine is make her own Circle and solidify its foundation with connections. There haven't been any battles between the Circle and College, save both competing to be on top.

[Arlee]

The only things she does when Leliana is Divine is make her own Circle and solidify its foundation with connections. There haven't been any battles between the Circle and College, save both competing to be on top.

 

Oh, so I guess she only dismantles the College if she's divine? That actually makes more sense. Nevermind then Honestly, Viv's fine. She's got strong opinions and is a pragmatist but she also listens and follows when she needs to.

[SgtSteel91]

Oh, so I guess she only dismantles the College if she's divine? That actually makes more sense. Nevermind then Honestly, Viv's fine. She's got strong opinions and is a pragmatist but she also listens and follows when she needs to.

 

Actually, in the Trespasser epilogue, Divine Vivienne lets Inquisition Mages form their own College of Enchanters cause the Circles are dominant and her respect for the Inquisition.