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Blood Magic


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#26
Jesse the dragon slayer

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I wish in DA2 you could have gone all out war with the Templars and kill Cullen. Ah wishful thinking.

They wouldn't risk the wrath of the Cullen fan girls but it would have been epic; Try to flank your enemies whenever possible history won't remember how dramatic your charge looked.



#27
incinerator451

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Cullen didn't have a fangirl base until Inquisition.

In fact these problems didn't appear until they started butchering the game with streamlining it.

#28
Ashagar

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Oh there was a fanbase before some of it going back to origins for Cullen, I think the only people who don't have a fanbase of some sort is Arl Howe and Anora.What I don't get is how Anders still had a fan-base after they butchered his characterization in DA2 and made him a  unstable crazed mass murderering abomination who's a bigger monster than those he rails against and has to be restrained from murdering the mages he claims to champion on occasion.


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#29
Jesse the dragon slayer

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What I don't get is how Anders still had a fan-base after they butchered his characterization in DA2 and made him a  unstable crazed mass murderering abomination who's a bigger monster than those he rails against and has to be restrained from murdering the mages he claims to champion on occasion.

That's debatable I was hoping to get to kill Anders in Inquisition because he is almost completely irredeemable but he is less of a monster than the templars who often use the right of tranquility. DA2 spoiler I agreed with Merrill that he should help defend the mages he pretty much condemned to death better than the alternative where all the mages would have slowly been executed or turned tranquil and more would of been brought in. Now to stay on the original subject Merrill was the reason I started looking at blood magic differently; anyone else find blood magic reasonable after Merrill?



#30
Ashagar

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Honestly no, I had more far sympathy for Jowen and his use of blood magic than I did for Merrill. Merrill didn't improve my image of blood mages.



#31
Evil Asch

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Honestly no, I had more far sympathy for Jowen and his use of blood magic than I did for Merrill. Merrill didn't improve my image of blood mages.

Yeaaah. Merrial was written as painfully naive and shortsighted, basically the last person that should ever touch blood magic.



#32
Treacherous J Slither

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That's debatable I was hoping to get to kill Anders in Inquisition because he is almost completely irredeemable but he is less of a monster than the templars who often use the right of tranquility. DA2 spoiler I agreed with Merrill that he should help defend the mages he pretty much condemned to death better than the alternative where all the mages would have slowly been executed or turned tranquil and more would of been brought in. Now to stay on the original subject Merrill was the reason I started looking at blood magic differently; anyone else find blood omagic reasonable after Merrill?


Hold up.

You initially found blood magic to be unreasonable? How so?

Seems very practical to me.

#33
Jesse the dragon slayer

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Hold up.

You initially found blood magic to be unreasonable? How so?

Seems very practical to me.

I gave into the crowd mentality everyone was saying blood magic was evil and then the only way you unlock the specialization in origins is dealing with a demon and it's used for mind control just got me thinking of it as unreasonable



#34
thats1evildude

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Incidentally, I also found an Arcane Horror practicing blood magic rituals in The Descent, and the Jaws of Hakkon are implicitly said to use blood magic to hide their activities from other "gods."



#35
FanHarel

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Solas was actually the one who finally convinced me that blood magic was not inherently evil. While he does not use it himself, he believes that there is nothing "evil" about it. People can be burned alive by fire magic, frozen to death by ice magic, fried by lightning magic, crushed by earth magic. What makes that magic any less "evil" than blood magic? Is a sword evil because it cuts you in half? It all comes down to the person using it.

 

Jowan- Dabbled in blood magic to save himself and avoid being made Tranquil, a fate most mages consider worse than death.

 

Merrill- Used it to try and help restore her people's history. She was naive and short-sighted, but she meant well, and was actually trying to do something to help the Dalish instead of sitting on her ass and letting things carry on like most Dalish.

 

Every mage you kill in Kirkwall- A mixture of psychopaths who abused their powers because they could, desperate people who feared the corrupt Templars of Kirkwall, a couple of Tevinter slavers/magisters.

 

Orsino- Pushed over the edge by the deaths of his charges and the strain of Meredith and the Templars and gave into temptation because he no longer cared about living or dying.

 

The Wardens- Gives them an edge, which they always need.

 

It all comes down to the individual. Dorian even says: what's the harm in using your own blood? The Chantry and the Dalish are just short-sighted and superstitious, and the Qunari hate magic in general.  



#36
Ashagar

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Doran also pointed out the very real danger and inherent corruptible nature of blood magic as well though.



#37
Treacherous J Slither

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Doran also pointed out the very real danger and inherent corruptible nature of blood magic as well though.


Can you elaborate?

#38
Ashagar

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its related to how power it self in inherently corrupting, he wrly comments how a persons own blood is never enough.



#39
Treacherous J Slither

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its related to how power it self in inherently corrupting, he wrly comments how a persons own blood is never enough.

Yes, yes we all know that power can corrupt.

However I find it interesting that people usually only speak of this in regard to mages and not nobles or fighters. I find it ridiculous actually.

Spells cast by blood magic are already more powerful than mana cast spells so im curious as to what scenario a mage would be in and believe that more blood would be better especially if they're using their own life force. I can see if they'd rather use someone else's blood entirely but how is the blood of one person not enough? What kind of spell is this hypothetical mage working on?

Also, why doesn't someone simply use livestock for blood magic? Why sacrifice a person when you can sacrifice a goat or better yet, a bull?

#40
Ashagar

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Because blood magic is more much powerful when the blood of sentient beings are used, made even more powerful if said sentient beings are suffering and even more powerful if the sentient beings in question are elves.



#41
Treacherous J Slither

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Because blood magic is more much powerful when the blood of sentient beings are used, made even more powerful if said sentient beings are suffering and even more powerful if the sentient beings in question are elves.


Still makes more sense to use livestock.

Also don't see what correlation, if any, sentience has with life force/vitality. It doesn't make sense for a bull or a horse to have less vitality than a man.

What makes elves so special? They're magical all of a sudden? They should have the weakest blood of the races with kossith having the strongest. Dragon blood should be the best you can get. Could just breed dragons and use their blood to power very potent spells. That's gotta be easier and far more productive than using people.

#42
Treacherous J Slither

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Also, why not simply collect blood and store it? You could accumulate an incredible amount and would never have to hurt yourself or others to fuel a spell.

#43
thats1evildude

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That's not how it works. The actual blood being spilled is largely irrelevant; it's the pain inflicted during the sacrifice that powers the spell. A minor blood magic spell requires just a pinprick; a major blood magic rite like the one used by the seven magisters to enter the Golden City required the violent deaths of dozens of slaves.



#44
Jesse the dragon slayer

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That's not how it works. The actual blood being spilled is largely irrelevant; it's the pain inflicted during the sacrifice that powers the spell. A minor blood magic spell requires just a pinprick; a major blood magic rite like the one used by the seven magisters to enter the Golden City required the violent deaths of dozens of slaves.

Are you certain the blood isn't the power? When going for the reaver specialization in DAI the trainer I forget her name says there is power in blood reavers know it as do blood mages and if it is the pain then shouldn't all mages who use their magic to fight be tapping into blood magic?



#45
thats1evildude

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Yes, there is power in blood. But there's a correlation between the pain of the sacrifice and the power of the spell; the more suffering you inflict, the more powerful the spell. This is spelled out in World of Thedas Volume 1.

 

And to be clear: it has to be a sacrifice. You have to give something up. You can't just go "Oh, my back aches! I'll use my lower back pain to fuel my blood magic." You have to hurt yourself or someone else for the magic to work.

 

Look at it this way: why would blood mages slash their wrists to power their spells if all they needed to do was dump a jar of stored blood on the ground to achieve the same effect?



#46
Treacherous J Slither

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I think that pain can play a part in the amplification of the spell but blood magic is not dependent upon it.

I believe that what's needed is the life force in the blood. The more life force the better. A painful but not life threatening injury isn't going to net more power than a fatal injury.

#47
Treacherous J Slither

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Yes, there is power in blood. But there's a correlation between the pain of the sacrifice and the power of the spell; the more suffering you inflict, the more powerful the spell. This is spelled out in World of Thedas Volume 1.

And to be clear: it has to be a sacrifice. You have to give something up. You can't just go "Oh, my back aches! I'll use my lower back pain to fuel my blood magic." You have to hurt yourself or someone else for the magic to work.

Look at it this way: why would blood mages slash their wrists to power their spells if all they needed to do was dump a jar of stored blood on the ground to achieve the same effect?


Because they might not have a jar handy?

Because the writers want blood magic to appear "dark" and self destructive?

#48
thats1evildude

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Yeah, Maker knows where mages can find glass bottles. That's why lyrium potions are stored in hollowed-out coconuts.

You are right, though: the writers want to make it clear that blood magic is destructive.
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#49
Treacherous J Slither

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Yeah, Maker knows where mages can find glass bottles. That's why lyrium potions are stored in hollowed-out coconuts.

You are right, though: the writers want to make it clear that blood magic is destructive.


The mages have access to glass vials and jars in which they can store blood just like the phylacteries, yet they refuse to use them and instead cut themselves to power the spell. They carry lyrium potions but blood vials are a no no? Obviously the writers are forcing things here.

Blood magic is destructive in the sense that it is power drawn from something that someone only gains access to through injury. Usually. Idunna didn't cut herself or anything but still used mind control. How? Beats me.

#50
Jesse the dragon slayer

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Yes, there is power in blood. But there's a correlation between the pain of the sacrifice and the power of the spell; the more suffering you inflict, the more powerful the spell. This is spelled out in World of Thedas Volume 1.

 

And to be clear: it has to be a sacrifice. You have to give something up. You can't just go "Oh, my back aches! I'll use my lower back pain to fuel my blood magic." You have to hurt yourself or someone else for the magic to work.

 

Look at it this way: why would blood mages slash their wrists to power their spells if all they needed to do was dump a jar of stored blood on the ground to achieve the same effect?

Because if you are carrying around a vial of blood in Thedas you are either a templar using a phylactary to track an apostate or a blood mage so naturally storing blood is a risk few would choose to take if any.