7 réponses à ce sujet

[ModernAcademic]

What are your opinions regarding the Avaar's constant contact with spirits?

 

 

In Jaws of Hakkon, we learn Avaar mages undergo a ritual where they let spirits possess them, a process that would be considered insanely dangerous by the Circle. During their training, the spirit acts as their guide and helps the apprentice develop inner strength. If the would-be mage fails, his fate is death.

 

During an optional ritual where an Avaar lady recites a prayer for the Gods, a spirit answers shortly after; proof that the Avaar people are being watched closely by the residents of the Fade. Why spirits have such interest in them - a tribal people, with a simple lifestyle and no greater ambition or purpose in Thedas -, one can only wonder.

 

We know of a mage who let a spírit inside him: Anders. We witnessed how he was turned into a demon and gradually took hold of his host, finally sealing the mage's fate by forcing Anders to go along with his plan of becoming a martyr.

 

The whole idea of allowing a spirit to possess someone was also practised by a certain Order which became corrupt under the leadership of Lord Seeker Lucius. According to Cassandra, for years, every recruit underwent the rite Tranqulity without being aware and had it broken by having a spirit of faith "touch their mind". In practice, they became possessed without knowing. Otherwise, they would have remained like Anders' friend Karl Feklar, who regained consciousness and reverted to his older self only for a few moments when he felt the presence of Justice.

 

So the possession of spirits seems to be a very old magic rite that's secretly permeated every aspect of life in Thedas, being present even in the most respectable institutions, mainly the ones that watch over mages, with their constant Andrastian diatribe of "magic is meant to serve man and never rule over him" and that therefore should antagonise the usage of such unstable and unpredictable magic in their ranks.

 

Can two beings truly coexist in one body without one trying to dominate the other and subject it to his will? Did the Chantry have the right to impose Tranquility in unknowing subjects for the sake of keeping order in Southern Thedas? Why do the Avaar view spirits in such a radically different way than the rest of Southern Thedas, considering them friends, instead of a potential threat?

 

Hence my question: what are your views regarding the possession of spirits and the many forms it took, be it in the ancient Avaar rites, the Seekers trainment or any other manifestation?

[actionhero112]

I don't like it.

 

Not because of any in game, lore related reason, I just don't enjoy the concept of sharing my mind with another entity, especially when that entity can wrest control of my body from me.

 

In general, I'm of the opinion that fade spirits should stay in the fade. Whenever they trespass into our world it always seems to cause pain, either through causing an abomination, or a massive shift in the spirit's identity. 

 

Does this apply to Cole? Yes. Do I realize that Wynn would be dead without a spirit's intervention? Yes. 

 

In general though, I think Thedas would be better without inference from denizens of the fade. 

 

 EDIT: I would love to play as Avaar in the next DA. 

[myahele]

I think the Avvars are the closest we'll ever see to how Ancient Humans (maybe even Elves) interacted with spirits. Even with the presence of demons the Avvars have a "patron" spirit(s) which protects them and explains why abominations are nearly non-existent there.

 

To answer you question, yes. Spirits/people can share the same body as long as both are willing and know what they get themselves into. Each spirit has their own purpose and the reason why they turn into demons is due to them not being able to fulfill that purpose.

[Ashagar]

Technicality seekers are touched by a spirit of faith not possessed, its what breaks their tranquility and gives them their power. What separates seekers from mages that are tranquil is their tranquility is caused by their ritual in which they empty out all their emotions except for faith via prayer and fasting, its not caused by a magical rune which constantly works to make them tranquil like what is put on mages so once the tranquility is broken there is nothing continuously trying to reinforce it on them.

[The Baconer]

Technicality seekers are touched by a spirit of faith not possessed, its what breaks their tranquility and gives them their power. What separates seekers from mages that are tranquil is their tranquility is caused by their ritual in which they empty out all their emotions except for faith via prayer and fasting, its not caused by a magical rune which constantly works to make them tranquil like what is put on mages so once the tranquility is broken there is nothing continuously trying to reinforce it on them.

 

Seekers are indeed given the brand, it is not an organic process.

 

From the Seeker Tome: We called it the Rite of Tranquility: a mind, branded with lyrium, brought to a state devoid of either emotion or sense of self.

 

I also don't believe the process ends at being "touched", at least until Bioware releases more information on the Rite at a later date.

[Daerog]

Tevinter also binds spirits. Usually they bind minor spirits, or whisps, or just spirit pieces (like the Necromancer) and are able to put them to some use. The spell casters in Inquisition put spirit shards/pieces into their tomes, which makes the tomes float and magic can be produced from them.

 

Knight Enchanters, who are sometimes used as bodyguards to the Divine or fight in battles that they are assigned to, use pieces of spirits to make their Spirit Blades. Normal Circle mages summon whisps for various reasons.

 

Avvar and Rivaini have greater dealings with spirits.

 

As for the question of two in one body, Anders answered that question. Even if the demon doesn't wish to dominate the mortal mind, the two will become one and there will be no more two. That is what happens to Flemythal as well, they just become Flemeth, there isn't 15+ identities in that head, just one.

 

The Seeker ritual seems very beneficial, and it takes a lot of discipline to pull it off, and that discipline and respect to the old ritual makes it seem fine to me. The Avvar interact well with spirits because it is a part of their life, just as humans brought animals into their way of life, the Avvar and spirits work together.

 

It is similar to how the Ancient elves were taught by spirits. I believe the possession to be too far and dangerous. Especially since the spirit can decide to kill the mage it possesses if it believes the mage to not be strong enough to live as a mage/augur. The spirit should just be a teacher, not a tenant of the student's mind.

 

Tranquility was never meant to be forced, it was meant to be an alternative to the Harrowing. If a mage chooses it... well, the Enchanters would hopefully try to dissuade the apprentice, but Tranquility is preferable over having one's soul/mind enslaved by a demon for who knows how long. DA:OA has shown that souls can be imprisoned by demons long after the body has died.

 

Interaction with spirits isn't so bad if one isn't proud, knows their strengths and weaknesses, and is well educated in such matters. However, possession is just not worth it. The only benefit is having one's life extended, and other than that it can just cause problems for the spirit and the mortal.

[leaguer of one]

Technicality seekers are touched by a spirit of faith not possessed, its what breaks their tranquility and gives them their power. What separates seekers from mages that are tranquil is their tranquility is caused by their ritual in which they empty out all their emotions except for faith via prayer and fasting, its not caused by a magical rune which constantly works to make them tranquil like what is put on mages so once the tranquility is broken there is nothing continuously trying to reinforce it on them.

It is cause by a magic rune. That thing about emptying out all emotion Cassandra was taking about was just her being turn traquil and not knowing it.

[Statare]

I think temporary possession, like the Avvar practice on their mages makes a lot of sense. A benign spirit, like compassion or wisdom, can guide a young mage and prevent a demon from possessing them. It sounds like the Ancient Elves did not necessarily need such a relationship with spirits as the Veil was not around, but it is clear they viewed Spirits as valuable members of their society, and I think Spirits should not be feared and I think a greater understanding of how mortals shape spirits by their actions is an under explored concept in Thedas.

 

I think what the Seekers do, and Tranquility, have problems. I strongly feel that hints were given that Cassandra, Lucius, and Lambert all became the driven, and at times zealous, people willing to do questionable things in the name of their beliefs at times, was because when made temporarily Tranquil, they became empty vessels, and the spirits of Faith that broke their Tranquility filled their "cup" with too much Faith and not enough of other things, resulting in slightly unstable individuals. Remember Pharamond?

 

I think when a non Tranquil is possessed more risk is placed on the Spirit, as you can have a Justice becoming Vengeance issue. I think certain spirits are more suited than others. Wynne seemed pretty stable with her Faith spirit. I think the broken Tranquility method is a little to permanent. After JoH we know Anders/Wynne types could be gently separated from their Spirits, so it is more of a temporary state.