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They had no choice but to set the game in another galaxy. Please accept that.


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#326
Malanek

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Setting elements? What are setting elements? And why does a change of setting mean they're leaving something behind? All the stuff from the trilogy is still there. We experienced it for three games. Why must we remain shackled to it? Why can't change be a positive thing? When I move house I don't opine for everything about the old house, when I clearly had cause to move. 

The biggest thing they are throwing away is what happens next. I believe you're well aware of what they were throwing away, it would takes hours to think of and list everything. Tens of thousands of words.

 

Rather perhaps a question for you, if there was nothing worth keeping about ME, why are you here?

 

There clearly is stuff worth keeping. It's been an extremely interesting story and a huge number of people are keen for the next installment. Hopefully they can keep enough ME to satisfy people and make an interesting and compelling story, but the fact is there is stuff that they CANNOT CHOOSE to keep by continuing with their current strategy.


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#327
AlanC9

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That trailer was telling us what to expect so first impressions are valid for that trailer.


And somehow you came away with the impression that it didn't look like Mass Effect because reasons.
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#328
KaiserShep

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The biggest thing they are throwing away is what happens next.

 

I guess that's sort of the problem: what happens next can vary wildly. 

Now, they could have simply canonized an ending, but for anyone who chose the not-Chosen ending, what happens next still got thrown away. 


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#329
Malanek

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That's really the issue though: what happens next can vary wildly. 

Yes, that's why I think it is very important to select a single set of decisions to write the next game off.

 

This isn't just about the ME3 endings. All sorts of things were abandoned in DA. The god baby, the golemn anvil, mages in Orzamar etc etc are all majorly important events that should have a big impact on the world, but because everything is imported they can never have a major impact.

 

Either everything is relegated in importance, or partially retconned, or slushed together. I'm convinced that these stories are made quite a bit weaker because of importing and I don't think what it adds has ever been satisfying. And they obviously can't keep changing the setting en masse like this every time.


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#330
Killroy

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The biggest thing they are throwing away is what happens next. I believe you're well aware of what they were throwing away, it would takes hours to think of and list everything. Tens of thousands of words.

 

Rather perhaps a question for you, if there was nothing worth keeping about ME, why are you here?

 

There clearly is stuff worth keeping. It's been an extremely interesting story and a huge number of people are keen for the next installment. Hopefully they can keep enough ME to satisfy people and make an interesting and compelling story, but the fact is there is stuff that they CANNOT CHOOSE to keep by continuing with their current strategy.

 

Why are you conflating the setting with the entire franchise, and everything therein? I love a lot of things about the ME franchise as a whole. I don't love the Milky Way setting so much that I feel the series must remain there for all time. And throwing away what happens next? I don't really care what happens next in the Milky Way. ME3 really killed my desire to see what comes of terrible writing. The most I could see myself mustering is morbid curiosity. 

What they're keeping from the franchise is what I care about. We're getting the choices, tone, aesthetic, biotics, tech powers, alien races(new and old), familiar combat, familiar tech and sense of wonder/newness. 


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#331
FKA_Servo

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What they're keeping from the franchise is what I care about. We're getting the choices, tone, aesthetic, biotics, tech powers, alien races(new and old), familiar combat, familiar tech and sense of wonder/newness.


Pretty much nails it.

This is what I'll be showing up for, at any rate.

#332
Malanek

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Why are you conflating the setting with the entire franchise, and everything therein? I love a lot of things about the ME franchise as a whole. I don't love the Milky Way setting so much that I feel the series must remain there for all time. And throwing away what happens next? I don't really care what happens next in the Milky Way. ME3 really killed my desire to see what comes of terrible writing. The most I could see myself mustering is morbid curiosity. 

What they're keeping from the franchise is what I care about. We're getting the choices, tone, aesthetic, biotics, tech powers, alien races(new and old), familiar combat, familiar tech and sense of wonder/newness. 

OK everything that they are keeping this time is exactly what you personally want. Great. Hypothetically in the future can you not accept that there will be some story element that you find really interesting but will have to be abandoned because of an import file?

 

And why can you not seem to accept that others may find some of the stuff, that they dedicated possibly hundreds of hours of exploring and interacting with, interesting. Some of that stuff that is going to be "thrown away". 


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#333
Mathias

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Pretty much nails it.

This is what I'll be showing up for, at any rate.

 

That and I'm also looking forward to it just being a clean slate. I mean discovering the Mass Effect setting for the first time and learning about it was one of the coolest and most nostalgic things about Mass Effect 1. And we get to do something like that again?

 

Sign me up.



#334
KaiserShep

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Yes, that's why I think it is very important to select a single set of decisions to write the next game off.

 

This isn't just about the ME3 endings. All sorts of things were abandoned in DA. The god baby, the golemn anvil, mages in Orzamar etc etc are all majorly important events that should have a big impact on the world, but because everything is imported they can never have a major impact.

 

Either everything is relegated in importance, or partially retconned, or slushed together. I'm convinced that these stories are made quite a bit weaker because of importing and I don't think what it adds has ever been satisfying. And they obviously can't keep changing the setting en masse like this every time.

 

Well, with Mass Effect, the ending clearly felt like the franchise was over and done with, and perhaps BioWare just wasn't considering that they'd make another game. Or, they could have been sitting on a basic concept of Andromeda for a long time and that left their options open for how to deal with the Milky Way and simply leave it behind. Dunno. At this point I'm not too concerned about that. 

 

As for DA, if it means anything, this is mostly a problem with events in Origins, which feels more like the "This might be the only one so go for gusto" game. DA2 and DA:I have their major events largely fixed in their conclusions to lead into the next game, and in my opinion, has served it fairly well so far. 



#335
Killroy

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OK everything that they are keeping this time is exactly what you personally want. Great. Hypothetically in the future can you not accept that there will be some story element that you find really interesting but will have to be abandoned because of an import file?


That's an entirely separate issue/discussion.
 

And why can you not seem to accept that others may find some of the stuff, that they dedicated possibly hundreds of hours of exploring and interacting with, interesting. Some of that stuff that is going to be "thrown away".


Because you're talking about nostalgia, not good game design. If you've already explored all those places and spent hundreds of hours there the only reason to want more of that is because it's familiar.

#336
Hanako Ikezawa

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Why would the Reapers just up and leave? Especially if we're talking about the Control ending, because that contradicts Shepard becoming the guardian of the Milky Way. Then you've got the issue of Control Enders complaining "My Shepard wouldn't leave!"

I already gave a couple reasons. There's also the fact that skyscraper and mountain sized Reapers can cause more problems than solve being there. 

Who says a guardian has to be right there 24/7 to be a guardian? One of the most iconic guardians Superman only shows up when needed. The rest of the time practically nobody knows where he is. 

 

If the Geth come back, that contradicts what the Catalyst said about the Destroy ending, and now you're giving people even more reason to pick Destroy since people would then know for a fact that the Geth would live on. ALL Synthetic life being destroyed was the biggest consequence of Destroy. I know so many people who didn't choose Destroy, simply because they didn't want the Geth to die.

I stated specifically the Geth could be written to have had a contingency plan of having a ship or station outside the Milky Way thus outside the range of the Crucible. The Catalyst just said all synthetics in the galaxy are destroyed, so logically those outside the galaxy don't apply to his statement. Or are you saying the Crucible affected the entire universe, in which case moving to a new galaxy is a moot gesture. 

 

In the Synthesis ending, EVERY organic lifeform becomes an Organic/Synthetic hybrid. Even plants and animals. How would they naturally become synthetic over time? Who would want to augment every plant and animal in the galaxy, and for what purpose? It makes no sense.

Who says the augmented plants and animals even need to come up? The glowing green circuitry could fade over time then nobody is the wiser. 

 

It won't work. No matter how you present it, it's bound to eventually collapse in on itself. It's way too much of a headache to try to sort out. It WILL take a degree of handwaving.

Every story is bound to eventually collapse in on itself. But so far you have yet to provide a single issue that can't be easily addressed. But anyway, I'm going to stop debating this. We're both just arguing our personal preferences at this point. 



#337
Killroy

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I already gave a couple reasons. There's also the fact that skyscraper and mountain sized Reapers can cause more problems than solve being there. 
Who says a guardian has to be right there 24/7 to be a guardian? One of the most iconic guardians Superman only shows up when needed. The rest of the time practically nobody knows where he is.


Superman doesn't leave Earth and hope things don't fall apart in his absence. He stays on Earth as Clark Kent and keeps an eye on everything.
If the Shepard-Reapers left the galaxy they couldn't be the guardians of anything. What would they do? Leave the galaxy for a few years, then come back to fix everything just to leave for another few years? How would that be a smart or effective system? How would it be better than Reapers staying in the galaxy at all times?

#338
Hanako Ikezawa

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Superman doesn't leave Earth and hope things don't fall apart in his absence. He stays on Earth as Clark Kent and keeps an eye on everything.
If the Shepard-Reapers left the galaxy they couldn't be the guardians of anything. What would they do? Leave the galaxy for a few years, then come back to fix everything just to leave for another few years? How would that be a smart or effective system? How would it be better than Reapers staying in the galaxy at all times?

True, but the Reapers can keep an eye on everything easily. After all the Geth, who are vastly inferior to them, were able to do it for centuries through the Extranet. I was thinking more that the Reapers would just be somewhere in the galaxy, like in interstellar space around populated systems, until needed, not leaving the galaxy entirely. 



#339
Ahglock

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Superman doesn't leave Earth and hope things don't fall apart in his absence. He stays on Earth as Clark Kent and keeps an eye on everything.
If the Shepard-Reapers left the galaxy they couldn't be the guardians of anything. What would they do? Leave the galaxy for a few years, then come back to fix everything just to leave for another few years? How would that be a smart or effective system? How would it be better than Reapers staying in the galaxy at all times?

 

Why can't he just change his mind.  I mean its fairly easy to see how horrifically wrong god reaper can go. Have shepard realize his protection long ago turned into tyranny, so he flies off into dark space keeps an eye on things so to only intervene in galactic ending threats otherwise not to be seen again.



#340
jstme

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Accept it? Well,they are the ones making the game so its really hard not to accept it as a fact. In "SO BE IT",kinda way.

 

They had no choice,though? This is false,they could have written Santa Claus as new protagonist and next ME game in Thedas ,if they wanted. Writers have the power and can do everything. Hell,they written Synthesis in,in a completely unscientific silly unmasseffective way.

 

They just did not want to deal with post ME3 Milky Way ,not because they could not but because they did not WANT to. Because of ... reasons.You can throw whatever you believe those to be - from too much work due to different settings to "writers believe reapers actually won and all is a dream" via Indoctrination Theory mayhem. Just ,please, don't try to convince people that they could not write another game in Milky Way because it is false.   

 

So accept next game taking place in Andromeda we must,there is no choice. Agree with that setting or support it or pre order/ buy the game - it is our personal choice and each one will chose whatever he/she/it feel the best way is for them. Game can be great,despite not being in Milky Way. 


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#341
Il Divo

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End Result: Reapers are gone, Geth are still alive, and organics are now upgraded with tech. The main issues dealt with in a paragraph's worth of words. You're telling me Bioware couldn't write a sufficient explanation for that in a dialogue or even a Codex entry? And if they can't, you expect them to write a sufficient explanation for intergalactic travel? 

 

The point (in my case at least) is that I don't expect a sufficient explanation for intergalactic travel. I'm expecting it to be on the level of the Arrival dlc in terms of depth where suddenly we have the ability to destroy Relays where before it was impossible.

 

Homogenizing the endings takes no effort at all. Homogenizing them in a manner that doesn't come off as half-assed? Another question entirely. We're essentially hand-waving away the endings, which themselves were a handwave.
 


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#342
Mathias

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I already gave a couple reasons. There's also the fact that skyscraper and mountain sized Reapers can cause more problems than solve being there. 

Who says a guardian has to be right there 24/7 to be a guardian? One of the most iconic guardians Superman only shows up when needed. The rest of the time practically nobody knows where he is. 

 

I stated specifically the Geth could be written to have had a contingency plan of having a ship or station outside the Milky Way thus outside the range of the Crucible. The Catalyst just said all synthetics in the galaxy are destroyed, so logically those outside the galaxy don't apply to his statement. Or are you saying the Crucible affected the entire universe, in which case moving to a new galaxy is a moot gesture. 

 

Who says the augmented plants and animals even need to come up? The glowing green circuitry could fade over time then nobody is the wiser. 

 

Every story is bound to eventually collapse in on itself. But so far you have yet to provide a single issue that can't be easily addressed. But anyway, I'm going to stop debating this. We're both just arguing our personal preferences at this point. 

 

You're promoting lazy writing. I didn't even mention that the mere absence of the Reapers is gonna raise question by Synthesis and Control enders. You can't just....not have the Reapers in the game, and the moment players notice they're gone, questions will be raised, and the moment the game attempts to answer it in any way, it will confirm that Destroy either happened or didn't. 

 

Homogenizing the endings will not work. Not without some serious handwaving, which is lazy writing. And I don't want to promote lazy writing.

 

  • Homogenizing the endings in any logical way is pretty much impossible.
  • Canonizing any ending will upset portions of the fanbase, and once again make Bioware go back on their word about how choices matter. 
  • Most fans in general voted against a prequel.

 

Which brings me to this:

 

 

Accept it? Well,they are the ones making the game so its really hard not to accept it as a fact. In "SO BE IT",kinda way.

 

They had no choice,though? This is false,they could have written Santa Claus as new protagonist and next ME game in Thedas ,if they wanted. Writers have the power and can do everything. Hell,they written Synthesis in,in a completely unscientific silly unmasseffective way.

 

They just did not want to deal with post ME3 Milky Way ,not because they could not but because they did not WANT to. Because of ... reasons.You can throw whatever you believe those to be - from too much work due to different settings to "writers believe reapers actually won and all is a dream" via Indoctrination Theory mayhem. Just ,please, don't try to convince people that they could not write another game in Milky Way because it is false.   

 

So accept next game taking place in Andromeda we must,there is no choice. Agree with that setting or support it or pre order/ buy the game - it is our personal choice and each one will chose whatever he/she/it feel the best way is for them. Game can be great,despite not being in Milky Way. 

 

This is the kinda of post that is driving me nuts on this thread. Because people want to "technically" me and say they did have a choice, when they should damn well know what I meant by "no choice". If you pour Cocoa Puffs into a bowl, open up your fridge, and you see a carton of milk, a bottle of soda, and a pitcher of lemonade, you do actually have a choice there. You can in fact pour that bottle of soda into your cereal. It doesn't mean it's the right choice, or the smart choice, or the good choice.

 

If you want a tasty bowl of cereal, you have one choice. Just like how if Bioware wanted to write a new game that upset as little people as possible, and created as much potential and possibilities for new storylines, they had one choice.

 

Unless you're not like every normal person on the planet and you like orange soda combined with Cocoa Puffs. 


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#343
Chealec

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Unless you're not like every normal person on the planet and you like orange soda combined with Cocoa Puffs. 

 

I don't even like Cocoa Puffs*... there's a strange parallel there.

 

 

 

 

 

*assuming they're the same thing as Cocoa Pops in the UK



#344
Mathias

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I don't even like Cocoa Puffs*... there's a strange parallel there.

 

 

 

 

 

*assuming they're the same thing as Cocoa Pops in the UK

 

Cocoa Puffs is alright in my book. Reese Puffs was my favorite though. 



#345
Il Divo

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I don't even like Cocoa Puffs*... there's a strange parallel there.

 

 

 

 

 

*assuming they're the same thing as Cocoa Pops in the UK

 

Everybody likes Cocoa Puffs. What's wrong with you?



#346
themikefest

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Cocoa Puffs is alright in my book. Reese Puffs was my favorite though. 

I prefer Captain Crunch



#347
Chealec

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Everybody likes Cocoa Puffs. What's wrong with you?

 

Chocolate breakfast cereal is just wrong :\


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#348
jstme

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Which brings me to this:

 

If you want a tasty bowl of cereal, you have one choice. 

Only if it is bowl of cereal killer.

 

See,you are wrong again - there are numerous recipes of tasty cereals. Being lost in ocean of ingredients ,hidden meanings,secret codes and philosophic allegories behind them  (3 choices,i wonder which one represents destroy- soda,milk or lemonade) and unable to see past heavy symbolism all i can say is that the example you provided is not convincing,to say the least.

 

How do you know that going to Andromeda will upset less people then several other options (sorry,cant provide food as an example,i am not hungry yet) that exist?

Was there a poll?

How do you know that Bioware actually wants to upset as little people as possible ? If ME3 is any sign , i think they take bets on how to achieve the opposite. 

 

And finally,how do you know Bioware writers have access only to milk,soda,pitcher (what is it?) of lemonade and Cocoa Puffs? If your insider info is true,they should immediately contact the union about poor working conditions. God,if thats all they ate during writing of ME3 i no longer wonder how to hell they came up with those endings.



#349
Treacherous J Slither

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Going to another galaxy wouldn't even be a thing if they had actually put some effort into making a decent ending.

But they didn't.

Now they're running off to Andromeda. Game's probably gonna flop.

I don't think they understand how badly they screwed up and they screwed up big time.

#350
Chealec

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Going to another galaxy wouldn't even be a thing if they had actually put some effort into making a decent ending.

But they didn't.

Now they're running off to Andromeda. Game's probably gonna flop.

I don't think they understand how badly they screwed up and they screwed up big time.

 

Hulk disagrees : http://birthmoviesde...f-mass-effect-3


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