751 réponses à ce sujet

[Il Divo]

^The joke is that an incomplete ending, as per IT, isn't all that much worse than the ME3 "complete" ending, not that the ME3 endings were themselves incomplete.

[LinksOcarina]

^The joke is that an incomplete ending, as per IT, isn't all that much worse than the ME3 "complete" ending, not that the ME3 endings were themselves incomplete.

 

Irrelevant though.

 

Authorial intent on this one, the devs saw the endings as complete; they even added to it when people complained about it being too vague. 

 

So that argument holds no water outside of opinions in the end. I don't see it as a joke, I see it as anti-intellectual by making up a story that has little actual context, and is borderline conspiratorial.

[Il Divo]

^Except he's not saying that the endings are "incomplete". He's saying that in this case, an incomplete ending, the Indoctrination Theory interpretation, is no worse than a complete ending, what the devs did with ME3. Nowhere does "authorial intent" regarding ME3's ending completeness enter into the picture.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Indeed. Synthesis is the most absurd piece of god awful nonsense I've ever seen in fiction... And I watch Doctor Who. 

 

You should go back and watch a serial from the 1970s called "The Time Monster." You may change your mind.

[Mathias]

Giving us an incomplete ending to mess with our heads, only to release the real ending later on is risky. In that regard I didn't agree with IT being a good idea. However I do think Indoctrination was a great idea, had it been in the game along with the real ending if you broke out of it.

[Ahglock]

You should go back and watch a serial from the 1970s called "The Time Monster." You may change your mind.

Now that is an impressive claim. I need to track this down. Being more absurd than an ending that reads like something I'd read to a 5 year old from a fairy tale while trying to be serious business is a tall order.

When Princess Long Hair cut her locks a wave of magic energy encircled the globe and everyone could speak the same language. Now everyone could truly understand each other and peace reigned throughout the world. And everyone lived happily ever after, all thanks to princess long hairs sacrifice.

The end.

[Iakus]

Two things to this.

 

1) Who said the ending was incomplete?

 

2) The problem with IT is it has been debunked by BioWare already, so why is it still a thing? It is nothing more than Squall is dead or Lavender Town Syndrome at this point. 

1) No one.  The part of the problem (one of them, anyway) with IT is that it leaves the ending incomplete.  The Battle In The Center Of The Mind is over, but the Reapers are still curb-stomping the fleet.

 

2) Not sure what you mean by this.  I'm just saying, half-jokingly, that the endings we did get were so terrible that it would not be much of a stretch to think that an incomplete ending like IT would be the "real" intended ending.

 

No, I do not believe in IT.  I can, however, see the appeal of it.

[FKA_Servo]

No, I do not believe in IT.  I can, however, see the appeal of it.

 

ME3 had an incomprehensible ending, which the EC clarified as a bad ending.

 

Indoc theory was a fun way to spend the intervening months, at any rate.

[Eryri]

You should go back and watch a serial from the 1970s called "The Time Monster." You may change your mind.

I'm almost afraid to. Watching something even more bonkers than Synthesis might just break my brain.

Now that is an impressive claim. I need to track this down. Being more absurd than an ending that reads like something I'd read to a 5 year old from a fairy tale while trying to be serious business is a tall order.

That's probably the most annoying thing about synthesis; the fact that it takes itself so very seriously. The way it's presented with almost religious awe as the "best" solution, despite being a load of unbelievable codswallop that looks like something out of Ray Kurzweil's wildest dreams. At least Doctor Who usually has the grace to make fun of itself when it's being silly.

(Edited for tone.)

Modifié par Eryri, 06 octobre 2015 - 01:16 .

[Eryri]

Right. I've got a copy of that old Russian leak -- I think I got it from Arcian. Here's the relevant part for the rest of you folks.  Note the bolded is a little different from what we got. It's not really clear what happened in the early version of Horizon from the document I have. As long as we're talking about what would have happened with more resources, there's this: I presume the three different versions of the scene are for different EMS states. Note that it's not clear in any version what happened to the henchmen. (That's the internal Bio term for squadmates since at least NWN.)

Interesting. So there really would have been foreshadowing of an explicit indoctrination attempt, before it was cut. Well that's a shame as far as I'm concerned. I would probably have found that enjoyable, perhaps even more so if Shepard drew his / her gun on whoever was the LI - with their death or survival depending on other decisions . Ah well. What might have been.

Thanks for posting that Alan

[LinksOcarina]

^Except he's not saying that the endings are "incomplete". He's saying that in this case, an incomplete ending, the Indoctrination Theory interpretation, is no worse than a complete ending, what the devs did with ME3. Nowhere does "authorial intent" regarding ME3's ending completeness enter into the picture.

 

No I get that. 

 

I am saying any discussion about indoctrination at this point is bullshit and shouldn't take place, devils advocate or no. It is simply a waste of time.

[Chealec]

No I get that. 

 

I am saying any discussion about indoctrination at this point is bullshit and shouldn't take place, devils advocate or no. It is simply a waste of time.

 

With the amount we actually know about ME:A at this point 99% of this entire forum is a waste of time

 

That one trailer with the Johnny Cash soundtrack? Could just be the further adventures of Jim Raynor...

[LinksOcarina]

With the amount we actually know about ME:A at this point 99% of this entire forum is a waste of time

 

That one trailer with the Johnny Cash soundtrack? Could just be the further adventures of Jim Raynor...

 

Point taken, I agree.

 

Still more productive though than indoctrination. 

[Addictress]

I think it is awesome that it's set in another galaxy, but I want them to really focus on the pioneer/frontier aspect of it. Like holy living fack, this is ANOTHER GALAXY!! It's like achieving interstellar travel for the very first time. It's like pioneers traveling through the Americas for the very first time, getting their faces eaten off by bears. This is the brutal and beautiful and challenging quest before them. To explore and study?  Or to explore and invade?  Perhaps they should look at the topic of imperialism. Like Lawrence of Arabia British Empire stuff - like the native species are like aw hell no, you think you can come here uninvited? You think you're better than us? That kind of stuff always turns me on bro.

[Kaorunandrak]

......Regardless of what galaxy it is set in or however flung in the future, they will have to at least talk about how ME3 ended to explain how our characters got there. That is an N7 marine character in the trailer, for every one who chose green if that helmet doesnt come off and show a glowy face there will be trouble. If they try to pull the whole "the alliance" sent a fleet before the reaper invasion thus negaiting any galaxy wide far reaching choices, how the hell did they get through dark space and past the reapers?

I'm fairly certain there will be some form of save/"mass effect keep" import that will fill in the back story and determine whether or not you have green face in the new game. Ain't nothing to freak out about nor get pissed about, just look forward to more mass effect.

[Mathias]

......Regardless of what galaxy it is set in or however flung in the future, they will have to at least talk about how ME3 ended to explain how our characters got there. That is an N7 marine character in the trailer, for every one who chose green if that helmet doesnt come off and show a glowy face there will be trouble. If they try to pull the whole "the alliance" sent a fleet before the reaper invasion thus negaiting any galaxy wide far reaching choices, how the hell did they get through dark space and past the reapers?

I'm fairly certain there will be some form of save/"mass effect keep" import that will fill in the back story and determine whether or not you have green face in the new game. Ain't nothing to freak out about nor get pissed about, just look forward to more mass effect.

 

 

I think they're going to say the expedition for Andromeda left during the events of ME3 or maybe a little before. If it happens after, they could technically explain what happened to the Milky Way Galaxy after the war, but only if Bioware plans to never ever bring the series back to the Milky Way.

[Chealec]

......Regardless of what galaxy it is set in or however flung in the future, they will have to at least talk about how ME3 ended to explain how our characters got there.

 

... and then Flurglblert woke up, it was all a dream - but of course it was, it's far too far to travel from the Milky Way to Flurglblert's home planet several parsecs out from the Andromeda Galactic core. Nobody even knew if there was life in the Milky Way outside of some pulp sci-fi trash and computer games.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I'm almost afraid to. Watching something even more bonkers than Synthesis might just break my brain.

 

Well, let me just say that all of the following occur during the course of the (excruciating) 2 hours and 15 minutes:

 

1) The Master infiltrates a science lab in order to summon an ancient being called Kronos that supposedly could help him rule the entire universe.

 

2) He does this with a piece of technology with the acronym TOMTIT. (No, I'm not kidding, and no, I have no idea how it got past BBC censors.)

 

3) Among the various effects of his experiments are soldiers from historical wars traveling forward in time and attacking people and Sergeant Benton being turned into a baby.

 

4) The Master hacks the TARDIS's telepathic circuits in order to record what the Doctor was about to say ahead of time, then feed his words back in reverse so that...the Doctor is forced to talk backwards. (One wonders when he was going to get around to spray-painting the TARDIS and calling an alien cigarette shop to see if they have Prince Albert in a Can.)

 

5) The Doctor has to travel back in time to the lost island of Atlantis to sort this whole mess out.

 

In a way, "The Time Monster" has the opposite problem of Synthesis - while it really wasn't explained at all how Synthesis could work, "The Time Monster" tries to explain everything, with people running around shouting about temporal thingamajiggies and frantically pushing buttons on consoles, and really ends up explaining nothing in the process.

[FlyingSquirrel]

......Regardless of what galaxy it is set in or however flung in the future, they will have to at least talk about how ME3 ended to explain how our characters got there. That is an N7 marine character in the trailer, for every one who chose green if that helmet doesnt come off and show a glowy face there will be trouble. If they try to pull the whole "the alliance" sent a fleet before the reaper invasion thus negaiting any galaxy wide far reaching choices, how the hell did they get through dark space and past the reapers?

I'm fairly certain there will be some form of save/"mass effect keep" import that will fill in the back story and determine whether or not you have green face in the new game. Ain't nothing to freak out about nor get pissed about, just look forward to more mass effect.

 

Well, I don't think the Reapers have the Milky Way under some sort of siege - that would take a *lot* of Reapers just sitting around doing nothing to encircle an entire galaxy. 

 

I'd also be pretty surprised if the ark mission starts after the events of the ending. Whatever ending you choose, reconstruction is going to take a long time and the powers that be aren't going to be investing their resources in something like an ark mission to Andromeda. It's more believable as a backup plan to prevent complete extinction if they lose the war. Plus, I suspect that part of the reason the writers decided on this was to avoid dealing with the ME3 ending altogether. Otherwise, they could just jump ahead 500 years or so in the Milky Way and water down the potential after-effects of Shepard's choices.

[Iakus]

With the amount we actually know about ME:A at this point 99% of this entire forum is a waste of time

 

That one trailer with the Johnny Cash soundtrack? Could just be the further adventures of Jim Raynor...

Okay, that I'd buy 

[Chealec]

Okay, that I'd buy 

 

Heh - that's something we agree on then!

[Eryri]

Well, let me just say that all of the following occur during the course of the (excruciating) 2 hours and 15 minutes:

...snip

Lol OK, you win. That definitely goes a step beyond even synthesis' level of bollocks. It still sounds more fun though.

In a way, "The Time Monster" has the opposite problem of Synthesis - while it really wasn't explained at all how Synthesis could work, "The Time Monster" tries to explain everything, with people running around shouting about temporal thingamajiggies and frantically pushing buttons on consoles, and really ends up explaining nothing in the process.

Yes, I agree that can be a delicate balancing act. Star Trek Voyager would sometimes bore me rigid with its excessive, made-up techno-babble. But I hope Bioware can find a happy medium between that and vague drivel like "your organic essence will be sent out".

[Shermos]

Bioware is frightened of the backlash from the ME3 endings, so instead of finding some way to deal with them, they avoided the problem entirely. It's a business decision rather than a narrative one. It's been more and more about the money since Bioware hooked up with EA. So we can expect to see more of the same triple A industry nonsense as time goes on. The way the Dragon Age universe was treated by the final DAI DLC does not give me hope for the future. Be prepared for a lame, lore breaking excuse for why and how the player ends up in Andromeda. You can only be pleasantly surprised that way.

 

I am hoping the Milky Way post Reapers will be returned to in the future, but I'm keeping these hopes low.

 

I'm sure someone will have a go at me for being overly negative or whatever, so I'll preempt this by saying I defended Bioware and the ME3 endings long after many people gave up on the company. I kept faith that the writers would find a way to deal with the diverging possibilities, so we would could keep exploring the setting we'd grown to care about with a new protagonist and crew, possibly meeting some of the longer lived originals along the way (Star Trek: TNG style). I learn from my mistakes.  

[FlyingSquirrel]

Bioware is frightened of the backlash from the ME3 endings, so instead of finding some way to deal with them, they avoided the problem entirely. It's a business decision rather than a narrative one. It's been more and more about the money since Bioware hooked up with EA. So we can expect to see more of the same triple A industry nonsense as time goes on. 

 

I don't know, though - wouldn't finding some excuse to stay in the Milky Way and bring Shepard and/or other popular characters back actually be the smarter "business" decision? It seems like in a sense, Bioware is acknowledging that they can't write their way out of the ME3 endings and still have a story that would work regardless of Shepard's choices. And I really think they probably can't, unless it's so far in the future that there would be all new characters anyway, and even that would require ruling out Refuse.

[AlanC9]

Would it be smarter to stick in the MW and give us more Shepard? Who would be more satisfied doing it that way? Really supporting all the choices is a non-starter unless a ten hour game would be OK; I don't think that would work. So if that's out, what's left?

I see a few options. Do what they're doing, canonize one particular Shepard's story, retcon the crap out of everything or grind everything into indistinguishable mush so it doesn't matter what happened in the trilogy, or outright reboot the series so Shepard never existed anyway. All these options have real downsides, depending on what a player likes. Going to Andromeda may not be the favorite of too many of us, but my bet is that it's a tolerable second choice for most of us. (For example, if they'd gone with mush I wouldn't buy the game at all, and I don't think I'd pay any attention to a reboot.)