33 réponses à ce sujet

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

As I understand it, if you make blackwall a warden there's a codex that's like (status: recruited. Joining: survived)
Doesn't that technically mean that your a warden when your recruited? And that he was ALWAYS a warden?

[Beomer]

Good point. I guess this technicality was overlooked.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

As I understand it, if you make blackwall a warden there's a codex that's like (status: recruited. Joining: survived)
Doesn't that technically mean that your a warden when your recruited? And that he was ALWAYS a warden?

During the two years between DAI and Trespasser he went to the Wardens and took the Joining. 

[BansheeOwnage]

During the two years between DAI and Trespasser he went to the Wardens and took the Joining. 

Yes, he never underwent the Joining until after the main game, and only if you gave him to the Wardens. On a related note though, anyone who undergoes the Joining is considered a Warden whether they survive or not.

[TEWR]

As I understand it, if you make blackwall a warden there's a codex that's like (status: recruited. Joining: survived)
Doesn't that technically mean that your a warden when your recruited? And that he was ALWAYS a warden?

 

Yes, anyone who is recruited into the Wardens is considered a Warden, or if you want to get rid of just being recruited, taking the Joining itself. Doesn't matter if you live or die in the end, the Order will still keep you in their records as a Warden. This was brought up as far back as DAO, with Daveth (he's still considered a Warden even though he didn't make it).

[BansheeOwnage]

Yes, anyone who is recruited into the Wardens is considered a Warden, or if you want to get rid of just being recruited, taking the Joining itself. Doesn't matter if you live or die in the end, the Order will still keep you in their records as a Warden. This was brought up as far back as DAO, with Daveth (he's still considered a Warden even though he didn't make it).

As far as I understood, you have to do the Joining ritual, not simply be conscripted/volunteer.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yes, he never underwent the Joining until after the main game, and only if you gave him to the Wardens. On a related note though, anyone who undergoes the Joining is considered a Warden whether they survive or not.

Yeah, once you start the Joining ritual you are considered a Grey Warden regardless of the outcome. As Duncan hands you all the cup he says "From this moment forth, you are a Grey Warden.".

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

As far as I understood, you have to do the Joining ritual, not simply be conscripted/volunteer.

Then why was it listed as "status: recruited Joining: Survived"?

[BansheeOwnage]

Then why was it listed as "status: recruited Joining: Survived"?

Because that's what happened? Sorry, I don't think I understand the question.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Because that's what happened? Sorry, I don't think I understand the question.

It lists them as separate. Doesn't that make them separate? That going through with the joining and being a warden aren't one and the same? I mean sure your supposed to eventually go through with it but your still a warden until you do right? Blackwall even got some blood he couldn't have been that far off from the gulp.

[Sealaria]

I think it is more they are considered a Warden at the ceremony.  You live or you die with the Joining ceremony.  Ser Jory I think is considered a Warden as well, but of course his way of dying was due to Duncan, and not drinking from the cup.  He still was part of the ceremony.

[Daerog]

Maybe the Status: recruited was written in the codex first and the Joining: survived was added later. These entries are not instantly made, they are journal entries most of the time.

[BansheeOwnage]

Maybe the Status: recruited was written in the codex first and the Joining: survived was added later. These entries are not instantly made, they are journal entries most of the time.

That was the impression I got as well.

[Fearsome1]

Dialogue clearly spoken by Thom Rainier during Inquisitions main game explains that after he was recruited, the real "Blackwall" was slain by darkspawn enroute to his joining. Rainier then assumed that Wardens identity in order to continue hiding from his previous crime. He only joins the Wardens if the Inquisitor judges him that way at Skyhold following the revelation of his true identity. The codex entry refers to this!

[Poledo]

Then why was it listed as "status: recruited Joining: Survived"?

 

Because you are technically right:

 

• Warden-Ensign: Generally just called Wardens, these are the members of the Order who have survived the Joining ritual.
• Warden-Recruit: an individual selected to join the Wardens but who has not yet undertaken the Joining ritual. They are given a formal rank just for committing themselves to the Wardens, regardless of whether or not they survive the Joining. Failed recruits' names are kept in the archives of Weisshaupt in honour of their sacrifice.

 

Of course there is the fact that his recruiter died and he took his name. So it was never recorded that he was a recruit.

[GalthosDobbins]

There are two ways to join the wardens: recruited or conscripted. 

 

I am fairly sure Tom was recruited.  Could be wrong though

[Dai Grepher]

No. You are only considered a Grey Warden if you undergo the Joining, even if you die from it. Recruitment only makes you an initiate. For example. Daveth was a Grey Warden. Ser Jory was not.

[PIT_DEFENDER]

But since his Recuirter died before he could report to his superiors, then woulnd that technically never happen ?

 

Besides, even if there was a document prooving it, the recuriter was ded and Rheiner was a war criminal wanted for ordering his men to commit atrocites against their own countrymen, killing women and children. It was rather safe on his behalf to not expect other waredens to still let him stay and go on wiht ritual just for the sake of techinicallity.

[In Exile]

Yeah, once you start the Joining ritual you are considered a Grey Warden regardless of the outcome. As Duncan hands you all the cup he says "From this moment forth, you are a Grey Warden.".

 

The Wardens considering you a Grey Warden isn't the same thing as being one. 

 

I think it is more they are considered a Warden at the ceremony.  You live or you die with the Joining ceremony.  Ser Jory I think is considered a Warden as well, but of course his way of dying was due to Duncan, and not drinking from the cup.  He still was part of the ceremony.

 

Duncan is a bit of a basket case - and pretty terrible at recruiting - but the idea behind it, I think, is that you have to actually participate in the Joining. Ser Jory is a desserter. He died, but not by way of the Joining. The idea of honouring people like Daveth is that the willingness to sacrifice is what makes one a Warden, whether you die right at the Joining or 20 years later because of the Calling. Running away from it all, that's a disqualifier. 

[solomon.kosin]

Dialogue clearly spoken by Thom Rainier during Inquisitions main game explains that after he was recruited, the real "Blackwall" was slain by darkspawn enroute to his joining. Rainier then assumed that Wardens identity in order to continue hiding from his previous crime. He only joins the Wardens if the Inquisitor judges him that way at Skyhold following the revelation of his true identity. The codex entry refers to this!

Does he join the Wardens if you exile them and Blackwall? Or he simply wanishes and we dont know his future fate?

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Does he join the Wardens if you exile them and Blackwall? Or he simply wanishes and we dont know his future fate?

Well if you make him keep up the lie he joins the wardens and hates you.
I imagine he leaves like everyone else.

 

Because you are technically right:

 

• Warden-Ensign: Generally just called Wardens, these are the members of the Order who have survived the Joining ritual.
• Warden-Recruit: an individual selected to join the Wardens but who has not yet undertaken the Joining ritual. They are given a formal rank just for committing themselves to the Wardens, regardless of whether or not they survive the Joining. Failed recruits' names are kept in the archives of Weisshaupt in honour of their sacrifice.

 

Of course there is the fact that his recruiter died and he took his name. So it was never recorded that he was a recruit.

So was he always technically a warden then? what is the totality of the joining anyway? Because he got the blood iirc.

[robertthebard]

No, being recruited means that you're a recruit. There's more to being a Warden than being recruited, you have to actually survive the Joining. No retcons, no lore overlooked, just grasping for another "plot hole"...

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

No, being recruited means that you're a recruit. There's more to being a Warden than being recruited, you have to actually survive the Joining. No retcons, no lore overlooked, just grasping for another "plot hole"...

Except you don't. Daveth and jory are both wardens, and I'm still not sure blackwalls joining didn't start.

Edit: It did start I just remembered the line that was bugging me about this. Duncan says "it's as much a part of the joining as what comes after" about collecting the blood.
I'm not sure what that means but I'm pretty sure it means something.

[robertthebard]

Except you don't. Daveth and jory are both wardens, and I'm still not sure blackwalls joining didn't start.

Edit: It did start I just remembered the line that was bugging me about this. Duncan says "it's as much a part of the joining as what comes after" about collecting the blood.
I'm not sure what that means but I'm pretty sure it means something.

Yep, when we head out into the Wilds, we're on our way to becoming Wardens, because we're getting the blood we're going to have to drink in order to become Wardens. You see, it's not some fancy title like Lord, where being a Noble's son grants it to you, you have to actually drink the blood. I guess you don't have to survive, but you have to drink the blood. Otherwise, any raw recruit could defeat an archdemon, just tell him, you're a Warden now, hit that guy until he's dead, and the Blight's over.

[AnUnculturedLittlePotato]

Yep, when we head out into the Wilds, we're on our way to becoming Wardens, because we're getting the blood we're going to have to drink in order to become Wardens. You see, it's not some fancy title like Lord, where being a Noble's son grants it to you, you have to actually drink the blood. I guess you don't have to survive, but you have to drink the blood. Otherwise, any raw recruit could defeat an archdemon, just tell him, you're a Warden now, hit that guy until he's dead, and the Blight's over.

I...know? Your a warden-recruit until you undergo the joining but duncan said that getting the blood "was as much a part of the joining as what comes after" so...that means blackwall started the joining?