I'm only aware of the one collector ship. The only other one is the one James talks about destroying. That isn't explained until months later in a cartoon that features James.
Is there a codex mentioning these so-called Black arks formerly known as collector ships?
I'm only aware of the one collector ship. The only other one is the one James talks about destroying. That isn't explained until months later in a cartoon that features James.
Is there a codex mentioning these so-called Black arks formerly known as collector ships?
I wonder, if people keep calling you out enough, will your posts eventually degenerate to just repeatedly saying "throwing the baby out with the bathwater"?
Until Bioware is willing to share details its all up for debate on what Bioware is doing with the setting.
During the Reaper invasion in 2186, the Collectors returned in force. More Collectors emerged from dark space on relatively low-velocity transport ships called Black Arks, allowing them to maintain a low profile while the galaxy focused its attention on the Reapers. It is believed that their arrival was meant to function as deadly reserves, wiping out pockets of resistance while the galaxy's troops engaged the Reapers.[1]A Collector Cruiser is a massive vessel capable of carrying large numbers of Collectors, Husks, Abominations, Scions, Praetorians and Seeker swarms along with enough stasis pods to capture every human colony in the Terminus Systems and still gather more from Earth. The Collectors are known to have possessed several cruisers, two of which are encountered in 2185. The Collector Cruiser is currently the only known Collector ship type.
So that's a multiplayer thing. The little bit of multiplayer I did was just to get my readiness higher was done long before that blog
So that's a multiplayer thing. The little bit of multiplayer I did was just to get my readiness higher was done long before that blog
Well, the Collectors were mentioned in SP as well, like reports of them battling the Turians and Krogan during the Battle of Palaven. But yeah, this was the story and lore connection for the Mass Effect 3: Retaliation DLC.
Guest_FoxyFinn_*
It is still Mass Effect in the same way that Star Trek: Voyager was still Star Trek.
The only thing is ST:Voyager's pilot episode is launched from it's predecessor, ST:DS9's space station featuring Quark from DS9 trying to do a shady deal with Harry Kim of Voyager. So there is a tie in to the other series before the crew gets lost in the delta quadrant. I'd like to see a launching point from the trilogy before we venture into Andromeda; a fleet of interspecies ships fleeing the galaxy in the opening sequence, or maybe addressed in a pre-game novel. Maybe such a tie in will help ease the OP's concerns.
Mass Effect canon establishes that there was more than one Collector Cruiser. One attacks Fehl Prime in Mass Effect: Paragon Lost. And during the Reaper War more Collector Cruisers, dubbed Black Arks by our cycle, were called in from outside the galaxy to serve as reinforcements for the Reapers.
TIM already had indoctrination technology from decades before Mass Effect 2. If you want to use game-only evidence, he had the remains of the Human Proto-Reaper. Plus in the Leviathan DLC it is established we have developed a sort of anti-indoctrination shielding.
Yes, there was more than one Collector Cruiser, however:
It is an assumption that they have Reaper-class eezo cores. Killroy has pretty consistently been ripping on me for perceived "assumptions" that I make. But I'm seeing the exact same thing here.
Potential indoctrination. Even if the Collector ships do have Reaper technology, we know that even seemingly innocuous Reaper devices can indoctrinate. And while we have seen that certain types of shielding can block active control of people by Leviathans, there is no known way to stop Reaper indoctrination (that I am aware of, anyway)
In addition, Collector Cruisers are just that: Cruisers. Not dreadnoughts or Sovereigns. You can certainly pack in a bunch of people into one if it's just going to be run by a few drones and you're not sweating things like food, life support, or colonization equipment. But these are only midsize ships.
I want a consistent game that follows its own rules, yeah. I guess this makes me a whiner. Or is it a crybaby? I can't keep all your name-calling straight sometimes.
THe council is one of the largest political bodies in the explored galaxy. What other "large organized groups" new about the Reapers? I mentioned the geth and their difficulties. You mentioned Cerberus, which, granted is significant, especially once TIM got the Star Forge up and running in ME3.
But who else?
They're both journeys over long distances?
Relays take you to a lot of places, but they don't take you everywhere. You're not even allowed to open up a relay unless you know in advance where its going.
Now who's making assumptions?
You mean the Collector ship that was destroyed at the Collector base? Or are we just making up new ones?
Umm, you realize where TIM got his indoctrination technology from, right?
I pointed out how they were portrayed inconsistently. It has long ago become a joke that Cerberus is shoehorned into being whatever kind of organization Bioware needs them to be in a given story. Form mad scientists to benevolent secret society to Imperial stormtroopers to space Iluminati. THis is part of Mass Effects problem, treating their own lore like silly putty.
SHow me in the lore where it states Reapers can reach Andromeda.
It's actually part of the question. If we can get there, why not the Reapers. It's a hole Bioware dug for themselves.
1- You don't care about consistency or lore. You want us to ignore lore you don't like and plot elements that run counter to your argument.
2- If Cerberus can amass a force rivaling all others in the span of ~6 months why is it impossible for any group besides the Council to start an Ark project?
3- ARKCON
4- So are cross-country road trips the same as cross-country flights? There's no difference?
5- You don't even know the lore so how can you claim to be honoring it?
6- TIM has had indoctrination tech since before Cerberus existed. That's how he got his eyes.
7- You pointed out that you don't like the lore Cerberus establishes. Their consistency is irrelevant. You want us to ignore Cerberus because they shatter your argument.
8- Where did I say the lore establishes the Reapers can go to Andromeda? I never said that. But the lore does speculate that the Reapers don't need to discharge at all, and the Collectors use Reaper tech.
9- That's not part of this discussion. If I apply your logic, the Reapers were wholly inconsistent. Why should we assume they would go to the Andromeda just because they can when nothing else they do makes sense?
In addition, Collector Cruisers are just that: Cruisers. Not dreadnoughts or Sovereigns. You can certainly pack in a bunch of people into one if it's just going to be run by a few drones and you're not sweating things like food, life support, or colonization equipment. But these are only midsize ships.
Yeah, about that...
For a guy who claims to be so concerned about the lore you don't seem to know much about the lore at all.
Well, the Collectors were mentioned in SP as well, like reports of them battling the Turians and Krogan during the Battle of Palaven. But yeah, this was the story and lore connection for the Mass Effect 3: Retaliation DLC.
Collector swarms, yes. But not Collectors:
The Reapers did not understand the seriousness of the threat at first--those that detected the landing crafts sent husks and Collector swarms to intercept them, but little more. This allowed krogan commandos to link up with Palaven's resistance and hand off their payloads--warp bombs and fission weapons
1- You don't care about consistency or lore. You want us to ignore lore you don't like and plot elements that run counter to your argument.
2- If Cerberus can amass a force rivaling all others in the span of ~6 months why is it impossible for any group besides the Council to start an Ark project?
3- ARKCON
4- So are cross-country road trips the same as cross-country flights? There's no difference?
5- You don't even know the lore so how can you claim to be honoring it?
6- TIM has had indoctrination tech since before Cerberus existed. That's how he got his eyes.
7- You pointed out that you don't like the lore Cerberus establishes. Their consistency is irrelevant. You want us to ignore Cerberus because they shatter your argument.
8- Where did I say the lore establishes the Reapers can go to Andromeda? I never said that. But the lore does speculate that the Reapers don't need to discharge at all, and the Collectors use Reaper tech.
9- That's not part of this discussion. If I apply your logic, the Reapers were wholly inconsistent. Why should we assume they would go to the Andromeda just because they can when nothing else they do makes sense?
1 If I didn't care about consistency and lore, I wouldn't care about the setting at all. I'd be thankful that I could just wish away the trilogy
2 STAR FORGES FOR EVERYBODY!
3 WHo the hell are they? Now you're just making things up
4 Depends on where you want to go
5 personal attack, not going to dignify
6 citation needed
7 WHich Cerberus are we talking about? THe rogue black ops organization of ME1, the benevolent but careless guardians of humanity of ME2, the evil empire of ME3, or the space Iluminati of the comics?
8 By claiming the Reapers can keep running without discharging. Unless you're saying there's some other physical restriction which says they can't
9 Because there is life in Andromeda
Yeah, about that...
For a guy who claims to be so concerned about the lore you don't seem to know much about the lore at all.
Ahem:
https://www.youtube....h?v=Z0d0DbAFZ7M
"Unidentified vessel. Looks like a cruiser
You don't know about ARKCON, you don't know about the lore, and you don't believe in measurements apparently. Why should I take you seriously? You're not making an informed argument, you're just arguing.
Yes, there was more than one Collector Cruiser, however:
It is an assumption that they have Reaper-class eezo cores. Killroy has pretty consistently been ripping on me for perceived "assumptions" that I make. But I'm seeing the exact same thing here.
It is not an assumption. We know they came from outside the galaxy when the Reapers called them in as reinforcements. Thus we can deduce that like the Reapers who did the same the drives of the Black Arks have surpassed the drive discharge problem since planets with magnetic fields are sparse in intergalactic space.
Potential indoctrination. Even if the Collector ships do have Reaper technology, we know that even seemingly innocuous Reaper devices can indoctrinate. And while we have seen that certain types of shielding can block active control of people by Leviathans, there is no known way to stop Reaper indoctrination (that I am aware of, anyway)
The anti-indoctrination shielding I mentioned was being used to block any indoctrination signal from a shard of Sovereign that the team had, so that technology does exist.
In addition, Collector Cruisers are just that: Cruisers. Not dreadnoughts or Sovereigns. You can certainly pack in a bunch of people into one if it's just going to be run by a few drones and you're not sweating things like food, life support, or colonization equipment. But these are only midsize ships.
Have you seen the size of a Collector Cruiser? We were on board one in Mass Effect 2. They had room to keep every human in the Terminus, which is a few million people, and still have plenty of room left over. Using known measurements, Black Arks are 1,890 meters long. That's nearly twice as large as humanity's largest dreadnought and nearly the size of a Reaper Dreadnought. The only ships larger than it are Reapers of the Dreadnought class, the Destiny Ascension which is classified as a dreadnought, and Quarian Liveships which are said to have been turned effectively into dreadnoughts after the Quarians armed them.
Collector swarms, yes. But not Collectors:
The Reapers did not understand the seriousness of the threat at first--those that detected the landing crafts sent husks and Collector swarms to intercept them, but little more. This allowed krogan commandos to link up with Palaven's resistance and hand off their payloads--warp bombs and fission weapons
It says husks, and Collectors are Prothean Husks. Or are you saying that the Reapers only had access to human husks while battling on the Turian homeworld, when we know they also had Turian and Turian-Krogan hybrid husks?
You don't know about ARKCON, you don't know about the lore, and you don't believe in measurements apparently. Why should I take you seriously? You're not making an informed argument, you're just arguing.
I know as much about ARKON as you. It's a name, nothing more.
As for the rest, if you can't take me seriously, feel free to put me on ignore. I for one seem to believe in measurements more than you do.
It is not an assumption. We know they came from outside the galaxy when the Reapers called them in as reinforcements. Thus we can deduce that like the Reapers who did the same the drives of the Black Arks have surpassed the drive discharge problem since planets with magnetic fields are sparse in intergalactic space.
I see nothing of this from any ME3 codex entries. Where was it stated the Reapers brought Collector ships with them into dark space?
If it's MP canon, then...okay... but my belief was that stuff wasn't really canon. I mean, an army of Cerberus sexbots?
The anti-indoctrination shielding I mentioned was being used to block any indoctrination signal from a shard of Sovereign that the team had, so that technology does exist.
Was that shielding in place around the Sovereign shard? I only recall it being around the Leviathan sphere. If it is, then I am left to wonder why it isn't used more often.
Have you seen the size of a Collector Cruiser? We were on board one in Mass Effect 2. They had room to keep every human in the Terminus, which is a few million people, and still have plenty of room left over. Using known measurements, Black Arks are 1,890 meters long. That's nearly twice as large as humanity's largest dreadnought and nearly the size of a Reaper Dreadnought. The only ships larger than it are Reapers of the Dreadnought class, the Destiny Ascension which is classified as a dreadnought, and Quarian Liveships which are said to have been turned effectively into dreadnoughts after the Quarians armed them.
THen why the hell is it referred to as a "cruiser"? This is not a onetime mistake, it's called that throughout ME2 and ME3
It says husks, and Collectors are Prothean Husks. Or are you saying that the Reapers only had access to human husks while battling on the Turian homeworld, when we know they also had Turian and Turian-Krogan hybrid husks?
Yeah, but those are called brutes. Just as batarian ones are called cannibals, turians are marauders, etc. Each species had its own name. maybe I am being too nitpicky, but did not say "Collectors"
Here's a more accurate chart:
Are these "official" measurements? Because some of these make no freaking sense whatsoever. Not only is the Collector Cruiser nearly as big as Soveriegn (again, why the hell would it be called a cruiser, then?), the Destiny Ascension is bigger than Sovereign and Harbinger combined! The Geth Dreadnought is barely larger than a Systems Alliance dreadnought, And the ALliance cruisers are darn near as big as the dreadnoughts!
ME is not all about Shepard or his/her friends. It's a game universe with other people in it who - surprise - aren't Shepard and his/her friends. So now we're going to see a new story - one in which someone new (who isn't Shepard) and his/her new friends travel to Andromeda in what is presumably intended as an attempt to ensure that the assorted alien species that we know and love survive. Assuming that the Ark theory is correct, well, that whole Reaper War thing was looking kind of hopeless.
So because you don't care about that extremely limiting aspect of mass effect technology, it doesn't matter?
The FInal Fantasy games are part of the same series, whatever that means, but they are not sequels to each other.
I mean, by that logic, you could argue The Martian is a sequel to A Princess of Mars.
But tell you what. If the games are as separate as the FInal Fantasy games are from each other, as in no references to previous stories at all (as in, the original trilogy may as well never have happened. No Shepard, no Reapers, no Illusive Man, nothing) and this is a totally separate story with similar game mechanics and a guy named Cid who keeps popping up in a different incarnation, I'll accept that. New setting, new rules, and all.
But one mention of "The Shepard", of the Reaper War, or Protheans, and they've got themselves a problem.
Mass Effect: Andromeda is NOT a Sequel to ME:3 which is why the developers kept saying the game is NOT ME:4 please stop calling it that before the name was released at E3.
The game takes place After the events of Me:3 but it is not a Sequel according to the developers themselves. So now you have established that Final fantasy games are fine because they are not sequels but still part of the same franchise can you please get over the fact that ME:A isn't ME:4?
But there's nothing wrong with making such an assumption. Unless Bio's established in the games that they're not Reaper-class drives, Bio's free to establish that they are Reaper-class drives, should Bio require them to be Reaper-class drives.It is an assumption that they have Reaper-class eezo cores. Killroy has pretty consistently been ripping on me for perceived "assumptions" that I make. But I'm seeing the exact same thing here.
The ship in ME2 looked quite large to me. It's a little late to complain that it was called a "cruiser."In addition, Collector Cruisers are just that: Cruisers. Not dreadnoughts or Sovereigns. You can certainly pack in a bunch of people into one if it's just going to be run by a few drones and you're not sweating things like food, life support, or colonization equipment. But these are only midsize ships.
Mass Effect: Andromeda is NOT a Sequel to ME:3 which is why the developers kept saying the game is NOT ME:4 please stop calling it that before the name was released at E3.
The game takes place After the events of Me:3 but it is not a Sequel according to the developers themselves. So now you have established that Final fantasy games are fine because they are not sequels but still part of the same franchise can you please get over the fact that ME:A isn't ME:4?
Does it take place within the same continuity as Mass Effects 1-3? Or is it a separate timeline with no more connected to each other than FInal Fantasy VI is to FInal Fantasy VII?
If it's the latter, I promise i'll shut up.
But there's nothing wrong with making such an assumption. Unless Bio's established in the games that they're not Reaper-class drives, Bio's free to establish that they are Reaper-class drives, should Bio require them to be Reaper-class drives.
Why is that assumption okay, though? And not other logical extrapolations?
The ship in ME2 looked quite large to me. It's a little late to complain that it was called a "cruiser."
Well, yeah, a ship that's several hundred meters long is going to look big. But it didn't seem dreadnought-big, let alone Sovereign-big.
So yeah, if they're rewriting history so that a ship the size of Soveriegn is detected as a"cruiser" I'm gonna b*tch about it.
I see nothing of this from any ME3 codex entries. Where was it stated the Reapers brought Collector ships with them into dark space?
If it's MP canon, then...okay... but my belief was that stuff wasn't really canon. I mean, an army of Cerberus sexbots?
Your belief is irrelevant. Bioware said it is canon, so it is canon.
For someone who is staunchly defending the lore, you're certainly being picky about what is canon when the canon goes against your stance.
Was that shielding in place around the Sovereign shard? I only recall it being around the Leviathan sphere. If it is, then I am left to wonder why it isn't used more often.
Yes, the shielding was around the shard of Sovereign. We even have a dialogue about it.
Because we don't have that much inert Reaper pieces. All we know is it can trap the signal in that space, not that if a person is in that space it blocks it out. It could be like a one-way mirror in that respect.
THen why the hell is it referred to as a "cruiser"? This is not a onetime mistake, it's called that throughout ME2 and ME3
You'd have to ask Bioware. My answer would only be a hypothesis. If you want my guess, it'd be because it fit the parameters of what a Cruiser does, which according to the Codex is "Cruisers are middle-weight combatants, faster than dreadnoughts, and more heavily-armed than frigates." and "Cruiser-weight starships are the standard combat unit encountered away from large naval bases, the "poor bloody infantry" of most fleets." Since the Black Ark fit those parameters and is the only known Collector ship, it was dubbed a Cruiser. Nowhere does the lore say that a ship is classified by its size, just its capabilities and role.
Yeah, but those are called brutes. Just as batarian ones are called cannibals, turians are marauders, etc. Each species had its own name. maybe I am being too nitpicky, but did not say "Collectors"
And yet despite there being many variants of them, we call all dogs dogs, all cats cats, all birds birds, all fish fish, all ships ships, etc. Husk is the term referencing a being who was weaponized by the Reapers.
Yes, you are being nitpicky, and that's coming from me who can be nitpicky about things.
Why is that assumption okay, though? And not other logical extrapolations?
Well, yeah, a ship that's several hundred meters long is going to look big. But it didn't seem dreadnought-big, let alone Sovereign-big.
So yeah, if they're rewriting history so that a ship the size of Soveriegn is detected as a"cruiser" I'm gonna b*tch about it.
For your first point. Because the only thing they have to provide is a possible explanation that works. You are arguing that it is impossible in the lore, they provide a possibility. No one is arguing that we know bioware has done it right, only that in the existing lore it is possible to have explanations around this.
For your 2nd point. Cut scene accuracy and titles isn't something to hang your hat on. You went in the ship it is farking massive, maybe bigger than soverign massive, it can carry millions of people. In game aspects contradict your cut scene impressions. And the term cruiser is fairly loose in the setting.
Your belief is irrelevant. Bioware said it is canon, so it is canon.
For someone who is staunchly defending the lore, you're certainly being picky about what is canon when the canon goes against your stance.
Yes, the shielding was around the shard of Sovereign. We even have a dialogue about it.
Because we don't have that much inert Reaper pieces. All we know is it can trap the signal in that space, not that if a person is in that space it blocks it out. It could be like a one-way mirror in that respect.
You'd have to ask Bioware. My answer would only be a hypothesis. If you want my guess, it'd be because it fit the parameters of what a Cruiser does, which according to the Codex is "Cruisers are middle-weight combatants, faster than dreadnoughts, and more heavily-armed than frigates." and "Cruiser-weight starships are the standard combat unit encountered away from large naval bases, the "poor bloody infantry" of most fleets." Since the Black Ark fit those parameters and is the only known Collector ship, it was dubbed a Cruiser. Nowhere does the lore say that a ship is classified by its size, just its capabilities and role.
And yet despite there being many variants of them, we call all dogs dogs, all cats cats, all birds birds, all fish fish, all ships ships, etc. Husk is the term referencing a being who was weaponized by the Reapers.
Yes, you are being nitpicky, and that's coming from me who can be nitpicky about things.
1) The canonicity (is that a word?) of MP has been in doubt since Day 1. You can have Cerberus troops fighting on Earth. You can have groups fighting whom Shepard has never recruited, or have even been wiped out. Look back at the history of the forums and yes you will see debate about this.
So, like I said, if Bioware finally, definitively comes down and says that MP is canon, then I guess I will have to accept it. But they will really be grasping at straws to ad validity to this mess.
2) The only dialogue I recall (though I admit it has been quite some time since I have played) is the whole "Vanguard of our destruction, eh? How's that working out for you?" line
3) The Collector Cruiser is called a cruiser quite literally from the moment it first appears. Before it's capabilities are even shown. There was no comparison between it and other Collector ships so there's no way of knowing if it was a "middleweight" ship or not. The logical assumption is that it was compared based on known ship classifications. Namely that of the Systems Alliance and the Council races. That the Collector ship was of similar size and tonnage.
If it rivals Sovereign in size (which was called a dreadnought despite it's purpose and capabilities being largely unknown) then why isn't it a dreadnought too?
4) Fine, I will stipulate that, despite them always being referred to as "Collectors" in the past, the "husks" on Palaven could have included Collectors. Happy?
For your first point. Because the only thing they have to provide is a possible explanation that works. You are arguing that it is impossible in the lore, they provide a possibility. No one is arguing that we know bioware has done it right, only that in the existing lore it is possible to have explanations around this.
For your 2nd point. Cut scene accuracy and titles isn't something to hang your hat on. You went in the ship it is farking massive, maybe bigger than soverign massive, it can carry millions of people. In game aspects contradict your cut scene impressions. And the term cruiser is fairly loose in the setting.
1)Then why do I get so much static whenever I mention (including using direct quotes and video from the game) that barring physical incapability, the Reapers should have visited Andromeda long ago, if such ship engines are possible? I smell hypocrisy on some people here. Especially since I do not deny that intergalactic travel is possible. Only that the time frame we are working with here makes it's development at this point rather ludicrous.
2) Cruisers are big ships. Hundreds of meters long. And something like the Collector cruiser will feels especially big, since it's mostly storage space. No need for supplies, life support, crew quarters, etc. So the fact that it feels big and open is no surprise.
However, cruisers are smaller than dreadnoughts (though not always by much, given that chart). That is a constant. Sovereign was twice the size of most dreadnoughts. And the Collector Cruiser is nearly as large as Sovereign. So why is it explicitly declared a "cruiser"?
Why is that assumption okay, though? And not other logical extrapolations?
Well, the main thing is that it's not an assumption. It's a possibility being used to establish that they could feasibly get to Andromeda. It's not being used to say "This is Bioware's plan for ME:A".
I want a consistent game that follows its own rules, yeah. I guess this makes me a whiner. Or is it a crybaby? I can't keep all your name-calling straight sometimes.
I'm also a fan of consistent games (if possible), but I think this is side-stepping the issue. As ridiculous as ME3's Cerberus plot was, if our concern is lore-consistency, we can't simply toss out the lore we don't like. If ME3's ridiculous "Cerberus has resources to do everything" plot is now integrated into the setting, then a mysterious Ark ship would be able to fit into that same lore concept.
I'm also a fan of consistent games (if possible), but I think this is side-stepping the issue. As ridiculous as ME3's Cerberus plot was, if our concern is lore-consistency, we can't simply toss out the lore we don't like. If ME3's ridiculous "Cerberus has resources to do everything" plot is now integrated into the setting, then a mysterious Ark ship would be able to fit into that same lore concept.
SUre it is, which is one reason why I want to get as far away from the trilogy and its inconsistencies as possible.
How how does excabrating those inconsistencies helpful? Cerberus had some kind of Star Forge thing going giving them infinite resources? Okay, whatever. But unless they introduce said Star Forge in a lore-friendly way (no I am not willing to accept TIM was a Sith Lord) how does that make building a ginormous Ark Ship feasible for everyone/anyone not-Cerberus? They most definitely did not have infinite resources.
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