64 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

The game has never been very clear on this, but with the epilogues to the main game it seemed like I could make a decent guess - that the Circle continued the policy that mages would be made to join by force and not allowed to leave without at least some sort of permission, while the College was founded by the rebels on the principle that the Mages should be "free". In addition, the Circle is under the authority of the Chantry, while the College isn't.

But with Trespasser we end up with them apparently peacefully coexisting in all circumstances, and those distinctions don't really make sense any more.

The Circle can't peacefully coexist with the College if it believes that mages must be forcefully made part of the Circle system. So as far as I can see the Circle must have largely conceded the rebels point, and "freedom" can't be the major distinction.

Similarly, the Circle isn't necessarily under Chantry authority, since it can be re-founded by Vivienne even after Divine Leliana has disbanded them.

So... do we have any idea what the actual differences are between these groups?

[SgtSteel91]

It think it's going to depend on the World State. Like with Divine Leliana, the College has more Mages but the Circle has more political connections. What that entails, I dunno. Maybe the Circle gets high-profile or higher paying requests because of its connections while the College can get a lot of smaller-profile requests because of its numbers? Maybe the Circle still practices the Harrowing and Rite of Tranquility while the College does not? Maybe the Circle employs Templars while the College has Mages dedicated to that role? Maybe any Mage can leave the College at any time while in the Circle you need permission?

[thetinyevil]

Mages in the collage can take a ****** without having to ask twenty different templars for permission first.

 

Basically the few good things about the circle, education, colleges access to books and research material without the **** ton of bad things about the circle, such as no personal freedom, being a templars pincushion, punching bag or living sex toy. Their children stolen from the before the baby's first cry and so much more.

[vbibbi]

I would think it's a division of the mages' fraternities. The Circle keeps the Loyalists and maybe Lucrosians, the College has the Libertarians and Isolationists, with Aequetarians splitting between the two. Basically, the 50% of mages who voted to remain in the Circle vs. the rest.

[Elhanan]

Both appear to be voluntary institutions for the learning of Magic, with one having more of a traditional approach with Templar supervision at the ready. Tis what I was seeking in my first two campaigns.

[rpgfan321]

I agree with what's being said here. The Circle is be more of a traditionalist in their training and magic education while the College will incorporate more radical or experimental approach in theirs. Although I doubt blood magic is going to be part of their curriculum, I can imagine the College not having any Templar supervision.

 

Under Leliana's reign, mages are not required to join, but prejudices against mages still exist and it's probably more safe to join an institution. At least southern mages have a choice now albeit very limited. Since the old Circle will be helmed by Vivienne, I bet the re-established Circle will be more political in power as well as in knowledge, but the College will be powerful in its own way even though its political power will be small compared to the Circle.

[Bleachrude]

Mages in the collage can take a ****** without having to ask twenty different templars for permission first.

 

Basically the few good things about the circle, education, colleges access to books and research material without the **** ton of bad things about the circle, such as no personal freedom, being a templars pincushion, punching bag or living sex toy. Their children stolen from the before the baby's first cry and so much more.

 

HOW?

 

The main source of money/lyrium for the circles according to the world of thedas was a) magical items created by the tranquil and the chantry setting funds aside and c) the  agreement that the chantry had with the dwarves for lyrium.

 

I'm pretty sure Bioware is going to ignore this but I don't see why the College should be as well funded as the Circle. Another thing I think will be ignored is that the circle was NOT subject to the secular rules/rulers of the area where they live...THe College SHOULD be given that they no longer fall under the auspices of the Chantry. Cumberland is in Neverra and logically, Neverra should be demanding tax revenue. Similarly, in times of war, a Ferelden mage that is College-trained SHOULD be subjected to conscription (in origins for example, during the landmeet, when you bring evidence against Loghain, the conscription of ferelden citizens is NOT a charge you can use)

 

So yes, there should be differences but I don't have much faith in Bioware of highlighting the  difference or if they do, it will make it seme like the differences actually favour the college system.

[Xilizhra]

HOW?

 

The main source of money/lyrium for the circles according to the world of thedas was a) magical items created by the tranquil and the chantry setting funds aside and c) the  agreement that the chantry had with the dwarves for lyrium.

 

I'm pretty sure Bioware is going to ignore this but I don't see why the College should be as well funded as the Circle. Another thing I think will be ignored is that the circle was NOT subject to the secular rules/rulers of the area where they live...THe College SHOULD be given that they no longer fall under the auspices of the Chantry. Cumberland is in Neverra and logically, Neverra should be demanding tax revenue. Similarly, in times of war, a Ferelden mage that is College-trained SHOULD be subjected to conscription (in origins for example, during the landmeet, when you bring evidence against Loghain, the conscription of ferelden citizens is NOT a charge you can use)

 

So yes, there should be differences but I don't have much faith in Bioware of highlighting the  difference or if they do, it will make it seme like the differences actually favour the college system.

The Chantry's declaration probably stated that the College would be free of interference from any given nation, and that the Chantry would sanction anyone who tried to break that. To avoid any "magical arms race" issues.

[MisterJB]

 

No one has absolutely any idea how either of them now work because we have been given no information whatsover about conditions and infrastructure.

Anything you read is either speculation, headcanon, wishful thinking or fanfiction.

[Sable Rhapsody]

HOW?

The main source of money/lyrium for the circles according to the world of thedas was a) magical items created by the tranquil and the chantry setting funds aside and c) the agreement that the chantry had with the dwarves for lyrium.

I'm pretty sure Bioware is going to ignore this but I don't see why the College should be as well funded as the Circle.

Economics have never been very well spelled out in the Dragon Age setting. Maybe the College has private supporters and funding? Some from the Inquisition to get it started, more from nobles who don't want family to end up in the Circle.

What really confuses me is how Viv sets up the new Circle sans templars. If Leliana is Divine, she disbands the Order, and the templars stop using lyrium. I guess they're still good in combat, but their specialized anti-magic powers are gone.

[sandalisthemaker]

The College has nothing keeping the mages in check.

 

So instead of some mage doing something terrible to cause the death and destruction of the entire institution a few years down the line, said terrible act will only take a week or so before it occurs. 

[Xilizhra]

The College has nothing keeping the mages in check.

 

So instead of some mage doing something terrible to cause the death and destruction of the entire institution a few years down the line, said terrible act will only take a week or so before it occurs. 

Well... given that it hasn't happened in Trespasser, two years on, that seems to disprove this assertion outright.

[Sifr]

The College lets every mage have a say...

 

The Circle lets every mage have a say... (but only if Vivienne says so)

 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Well... given that it hasn't happened in Trespasser, two years on, that seems to disprove this assertion outright.

This. Explain that Templar supporters

[sandalisthemaker]

Oh, despite my exaggerations the spirit of the statement still stands. 

[Steelcan]

This. Explain that Templar supporters

why bother?  So you can continue to hurl insults like this is a gym locker room after a bad loss?

[Xilizhra]

Oh, despite my exaggerations the spirit of the statement still stands. 

But... that would mean that the spirit of the statement was the opposite of the actual content of the statement, given that this is, in fact, "a few years down the line."

[sandalisthemaker]

But... that would mean that the spirit of the statement was the opposite of the actual content of the statement, given that this is, in fact, "a few years down the line."

 

Oh.... um....okay, I'll just reword the whole thing then.

 

They are both going down in magical flames, but the College will go down sooner. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

Oh.... um....okay, I'll just reword the whole thing then.

 

They are both going down in magical flames, but the College will go down sooner. 

 

Or not. Or maybe it takes several centuries for it to implode, just like the original Circles did. 

 

That said, in light of the events of Inquisition couldn't you say that every single powerful institution and even nation in Thedas should have a watchdog group like the Templars around to kill everyone when things go bad. 

 

The Wardens, the Seekers, Circles, the Imperial Court. They should all have an order around to annul them when things go bad. 

 

Only seems fair and pragmatic, right?

[sandalisthemaker]

Or not. Or maybe it takes several centuries for it to implode, just like the original Circles did. 

 

That said, in light of the events of Inquisition couldn't you say that every single powerful institution and even nation in Thedas should have a watchdog group like the Templars around to kill everyone when things go bad. 

 

The Wardens, the Seekers, Circles, the Imperial Court. They should all have an order around to annul them when things go bad. 

 

Only seems fair and pragmatic, right?

 

But then you'd need a watchdog group for the watchdogs.  And so on and so forth.

[Xilizhra]

Or not. Or maybe it takes several centuries for it to implode, just like the original Circles did. 

 

That said, in light of the events of Inquisition couldn't you say that every single powerful institution and even nation in Thedas should have a watchdog group like the Templars around to kill everyone when things go bad. 

 

The Wardens, the Seekers, Circles, the Imperial Court. They should all have an order around to annul them when things go bad. 

 

Only seems fair and pragmatic, right?

Unfortunately, the Inquisition was disbanded.

 

But then you'd need a watchdog group for the watchdogs.  And so on and so forth.

And thus, we may as well not bother.

[Steelcan]

The Wardens, the Seekers, Circles, the Imperial Court. They should all have an order around to annul them when things go bad. 

 

Only seems fair and pragmatic, right?

there are de facto limits on the power of these other organizations.

 

The Wardens have to walk a fine line on recruiting and anti-darkspawn activities, and also have the specter of past attempts at political involvement hanging over them.  The Seekers were subservient in theory to the Divine, that they were able to subvert this oversight because of a particularly naive Divine isn't a new thing as we have seen codex entries of other divines who have also not been kept fully in the loop.  The Imperial Court is kept in check by its own members. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

But then you'd need a watchdog group for the watchdogs.  And so on and so forth.

 

Yep. But, hey, you can't trust anyone, right? Anyone could become corrupt. A mage becomes an abomination or blood mage, a templar uses red lyrium in secret or starts abusing his mage charges. And the Seekers. Pfff! Their commander went insane and traded places with a demon! it could happen again. So they need a watchdog group as well. Totally necessary, no doubt about it. And that watchdog group would need another watchdog group of course, because the idea of any organization watching itself for corruption is obviously foolish and idealist (Looking at you Leliana  ).

 

So, yes, we'd need an infinite amount of watchdogs. A bit difficult to manage, yes, but it's for the good of Thedas, so it's completely fine and reasonable.

 

Remember, you can't trust person or group to self-regulate it itself. Ever. It would be madness to do so. 

[Steelcan]

Believe it or not, there can be a middle ground between the state of the government in Somalia and INGSOC

[ComedicSociopathy]

Believe it or not, there can be a middle ground between the state of the government in Somalia and INGSOC

 

Agreed! The Colleges should be allowed to regulate itself. So happy that you agree!