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DA:I is driving me away from DA4 :'(


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#101
SomeoneStoleMyName

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Thread title is relatable to me but for different reasons. 

 

When DA4 comes out I will have to wait maybe a month minimum to check if more morally ambigious, darker, "evil" and villanous RP options will be possible unlike DA:I. I want the options to play a darker character something which was denied you in DA:I on every corner and conversation. Despite raising this criticism multiple times the Bioware writers has never ever commented on this issue. Maybe they don't need to. The majority of the players most likely wants to play a morally good shining knight anyway. 

 

I find it abit hypocritical that they claim to include minorities while at the same time hamstring the main character's ability to RP a darker and more villanous character. There are some moments, but in general the Inquisitor's personality is mostly dictated by the writers with little room for amoral/immoral actions. The fact that they never addressed this to the community or other mediums shows that they are oblivious to it, dont care or that they are aware but can't be honest and straight up with it. Maybe time limitations were a big deal. But if that was the case why not just admit it? If their opinion is that the Inquisitor HAD to be pidgeon holed into a good character - why not just be honest about that too and simply tell us? 



#102
Elhanan

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Playing an immoral character does not mean aligning one's self with the villain, or decimating everyone else in the game. If one chooses, they can be selfish, skip quests that help others, invade sacred tombs, raise demons and undead, gather power for themselves at the expense of others, etc.

The role of Cory was already taken....

#103
Majestic Jazz

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Playing an immoral character does not mean aligning one's self with the villain, or decimating everyone else in the game. If one chooses, they can be selfish, skip quests that help others, invade sacred tombs, raise demons and undead, gather power for themselves at the expense of others, etc.

The role of Cory was already taken....

The role of Cory was taken but what of the role of Meredith or Loghain? I am not saying that the IQ had to be a carbon copy of them, but at least give us the options to embody some of their "for the greater good" traits.

We are forced into being either a goody goody or neutral character.

CMDR Shepard wasnt evil, but at least we had room to be uber goody, good, neutal, selfish, uber selfish (A Hole).
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#104
renfrees

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Oh really? Us poor demented older guys in the late 40s. Well we do seem to be able to adapt and have far more plasticity in our neural circuitry than you expert gamers. From my point of view anyway. And sure you can get used to edgescrolling as well but it is no less confusing than controlling the camera with the keyboard.

One can get used to anything, that doesn't mean it's good.



#105
Elhanan

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One can get used to anything, that doesn't mean it's good.


Does not define it as poor either.
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#106
darkway1

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And that's one of the central problems I see developing in the franchise, if not Bioware itself: it lacks confidence in what it is. Bethesda, CDPR, 343i, all of these developers know what kind of games they want to make, know what they want players to get out of the experience, and then they go ahead and do it. 

 

I totally agree,the Witcher is a terrific example of how the franchise has evolved,each game adding a layer of depth to pretty much every aspect of the game.It's funny how the Witcher3 has the same themes as DAI.......a time of war,gathering companions for the big clash,magic vs religion,relationships,Ciri's power mimics DA's portal mirror system and there's even a party/ball to attend but the Witcher handles everything so differently to DAI,it's all done in such a mature,polished,believable way,that works perfect in context of the Witcher world.

 

From a continuity point of view DA just seems lost,it doesn't seem to have faith in it's self,the pressure from outside forces,like making the game more casual,mainstream friendly (so it sells more),multiplayer,social agenda's etc are all diluting the DA core formula which is a shame because it's fantastic......it's just as dark,disturbing,rich and epic as it gets but DA/Bioware is unable to embrace any of it.


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#107
vbibbi

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That's not a great metaphor. Watching only parts of a movie isn't really a thing, but only playing a portion of the content in an RPG definitely is. How many players don't ever "complete" a TES game? Hell, a large percentage don't even finish the main quest.

I don't see an effective difference between Skyrim and DAI in this regard. Both of them have tons of content that would bore me to tears if I forced myself to play through it. Since I don't, it's a nonissue.

 

I think that's one of the complaints about DAI: where in DAO and DA2 (many? most?) players would WANT to do the majority of the content, in games like Skyrim and DAI, they don't want to do most of the content. Granted, there is a LOT more content in DAI than in the previous two games, but if most of that is filler that I don't want to do, what's the point of having more of it? I play Dragon Age for the story, and that's why I like the series more than Elder Scrolls.



#108
TraiHarder

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Does not define it as poor either.

 

But we can all clearly see that they are poor. If I have to walk up the steps with a tactic cam then its poor. If I have a amazing tactics menu in the last game an poo the next then its poor. You should really stop defending things that everyone here already sees are the weak points of the game.
 


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#109
Elhanan

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Most players? Doubt it. I know this Player enjoyed having a ton of content for both Skyrim and DAI; simply learned not to try and do all of it in one campaign.

#110
MrMrPendragon

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I've always thought the no healing + limited potions + no potion loot was part of the effort to extend the game hours as much as possible so they can boast about it in the conventions.

 

"Hey guys DAI is over 80 hours!"

 

*thinks to himself*

 

"Haha they don't know that we artificially extended the game that long by including RNG, grinding for good loot that never comes, crafting, no healing spells, and limited number of potions so players can spend 20 hours beating something that should've taken them 3 hours!"

 

 

Not sure it was meant to be that way, but that's how it came across to me.


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#111
AlanC9

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I think that's one of the complaints about DAI: where in DAO and DA2 (many? most?) players would WANT to do the majority of the content, in games like Skyrim and DAI, they don't want to do most of the content. Granted, there is a LOT more content in DAI than in the previous two games, but if most of that is filler that I don't want to do, what's the point of having more of it? I play Dragon Age for the story, and that's why I like the series more than Elder Scrolls.


Yeah, that makes sense. Though I'm not sure I'd say say that DAI has that much more content than the earlier games; depends on how you measure content.

I'm not a big fan of the TES games myself -- didn't pick up Skyrim until it was $5 on Steam. And I didn't think that the DAI approach was all that great a match for Bio's strengths. But I still don't see how it's sensible to play a game structured like DAI as if it was DA:O.
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#112
Elhanan

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I've always thought the no healing + limited potions + no potion loot was part of the effort to extend the game hours as much as possible so they can boast about it in the conventions.
 
"Hey guys DAI is over 80 hours!"
 
*thinks to himself*
 
"Haha they don't know that we artificially extended the game that long by including RNG, grinding for good loot that never comes, crafting, no healing spells, and limited number of potions so players can spend 20 hours beating something that should've taken them 3 hours!" 
 
Not sure it was meant to be that way, but that's how it came across to me.


Different game than mine. Never had to grind, farm, or utilize exploits. Enjoy the crafting a great deal; especially pleased at the high number of options for both armors and weapons. And being able to get away from the Healer concept was another break from the typical MMO mentality. No more spamming potions; made it more tactical and immersive. Plus I find plenty of good loot, as until the DLC's, all crafting was done for the Inq; not Companions.

But they are right when they say DAI is over 80 hrs; one can lose themselves in exploration, crafting, and basic gameplay. Guess this is why it was awarded GOTY 2014.

#113
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Those NPC's are scattered over several separate areas; Bodahn was located within the same camp. The comparison can be made, but is hardly replicated. And congrats if one can do all that within a single day....



The DAO gifts were scattered all over the place too. Unless you meant that feast day gift DLC monstrosity. I never used those.

#114
Elhanan

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The DAO gifts were scattered all over the place too. Unless you meant that feast day gift DLC monstrosity. I never used those.


That is the DLC I mean. I like the intent of gifts, but dislike the implementation of them.

#115
ArianaGBSA

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Different game than mine. Never had to grind, farm, or utilize exploits. Enjoy the crafting a great deal; especially pleased at the high number of options for both armors and weapons. And being able to get away from the Healer concept was another break from the typical MMO mentality. No more spamming potions; made it more tactical and immersive. Plus I find plenty of good loot, as until the DLC's, all crafting was done for the Inq; not Companions.

But they are right when they say DAI is over 80 hrs; one can lose themselves in exploration, crafting, and basic gameplay. Guess this is why it was awarded GOTY 2014.

Sad to have to go back in time almost a year: Quit blaming cooldowns, healing and other stuff in MMOs. These and other stuff are (awesome and) present in the godlike D&D pnp and the godlike D&D videogames. What D&D don't have and DAI and MMO have is respawning enemies, respawning resources and other boring stuff like these.
MMO mentality is huge maps of boring exploration and no stat building. Godlike supreme overlord of the universe D&D have stat distribution and no boring exploration, everything depends on your stats and skills, a dice and choices. No action, no combat aside from choosing what to do, no timing, nothing except build a character sheet and let it shine.
NWN2 is and will always be supreme and perfect because character sheet is everything and more. Lots of races, lots of classes. RPG = Building character sheet. MMO = Action. Simple as that.
It is a sad world where people think Diablo and Zelda are RPGs... (well Diablo 3 is still more RPG than DAI with the expasion since we have kind of stat distribution)



#116
Elhanan

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Some seem to misunderstand. I am on the record as reviewing DAI as a solo MMO. However, simply because I enjoy that concept does not mean I embrace all of the systems such as trinity. A break from the Tank/ Healer/ DPS mentality is a good step forward. It was harder in DA2, but one could also do so there, but am glad to see it altered so much in DAI.

#117
ArianaGBSA

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It's the year 2531. People are still whining because the latest DA game is not DAO. 

 

Jfc, get a grip, you're all a broken BORING record. Acknowledge that DA:I is not DAO or DA2 and doesn't have to be, and that not every player plays the game for the same reasons, or enjoys the exact same elements. I personally don't care for the 8 abilities limit, find it to be more challenging actually, and never cared much for tactics, not even in DAO, because that's not my main focus on these games. Simple as that.

There's always room for improvement, sure, with any game (including DAO, i found the guilds quests boring and unnecessary for my game, much like many think of DA:I's fetch quests), but getting your heads stuck up in the past is not what anyone would call improving. You guys always want everything right now, but it doesn't seem like the ones complaining so vehemently care for an objectively good game, just for what you think makes a good game. Complaining a game isn't how you want it to be, and then pretend your personal opinion is undeniable unquestionable fact, that's just hilarious.

I'm on console, the DAO tactics didn't work well for me in console as they later did on pc, for what little use i had for them anyway. Bioware is clearly trying different things, new things, things people might not like much or at all, but that's the joke, isn't it? In order to find what really works you have to try different options first. Whether some of you want to admit it or not, there is no one right way of making a DA game be a DA game. You know who decides what's a DA game? Bioware. You only get to decide if you like it or not. It's 2015, how about you get your arses back from 2009 for a change???

 

For OP, my advice is just keep playing the game, keep exploring and seeing if it works for you, and try to judge it as its own game and not "the DAO that wasn't" lest you want to reach your 70's still bitter DA:I isn't like DAO. Asking other players for opinions or guidance is fine, but letting others define your own thoughts on the matter is not something i'd recommend, ever. DA:I has its strengths and flaws, like any game. Keep playing and discover them yourself.

 

Wow, such a useless post. Everybody knows it. Nobody cares. I fight for what I want. Each one fights for what they want. This is the true "as simple as that". You like a thing? Great. Dislike? Great. It is not that everybody need to want DAO, or that everybody should hate DAI. It is that I, the only person that matters in my life, from the day I was born till the day I will die, want X so I fight for X. This is true for everybody else. I said it countless times here before, nobody thinks they know what is better or what is the best, and it ABSOLUTELY doesn't matter, it only matter what you want.
Going deeper and further so that you understand it better, nobody cares about reality, about possibility and so on. We complain about what we want, we demand what we wish and we make topics and posts about what we want to talk about. Of course people personalities are different, some are more polite and civil, other are more offensive and rageous but conditioning apart one does what one wants.
But in case you didn't notice, it is not, and was never, about people thinking they know or even believe that there is some objectivity into play or that other should like what they like. And I guess everybody here knows it since when they were little children and they realized the world wouldn't work the way they wanted. Some people like me react childishly, live the existence like a tantrum, other learn to let it go, others work to make it happen, but no one is stupid enough to think they know what other should be or think, nobody is retarded, nobody thinks everybody would like the same game, but most of us DON'T CARE.
So fight for what you want, or don't, other people will fight for wat they want or won't, but again, nobody is stupid and dellusional to think their personal preferences are somehow "better" or "the best".

 



#118
Erstus

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I totally agree,the Witcher is a terrific example of how the franchise has evolved,each game adding a layer of depth to pretty much every aspect of the game.It's funny how the Witcher3 has the same themes as DAI.......a time of war,gathering companions for the big clash,magic vs religion,relationships,Ciri's power mimics DA's portal mirror system and there's even a party/ball to attend but the Witcher handles everything so differently to DAI,it's all done in such a mature,polished,believable way,that works perfect in context of the Witcher world.
 
From a continuity point of view DA just seems lost,it doesn't seem to have faith in it's self,the pressure from outside forces,like making the game more casual,mainstream friendly (so it sells more),multiplayer,social agenda's etc are all diluting the DA core formula which is a shame because it's fantastic......it's just as dark,disturbing,rich and epic as it gets but DA/Bioware is unable to embrace any of it.

Nail on head. My main gripe and concern on DAI

#119
Cantina

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I played DAI numerous times. Thus since I had no PC save for Origins I decided to replay it. You know what? It’s a breath of fresh. To me DAO feels like a an RPG and remembering why I feel in love with the DA series. Seeing then and now how far DA has come should be a cause for celebration, but it is not. Biowore seems to be going backwards, not forward. 

 

I am not saying I completely hate DAI. There are parts of it I do enjoy. When I play DAI if it was not for the lore I would most likely be confused as this being a the third installment in the DA series. 

 

The OP mentions lack of tactics in this game. I agree - ten fold. I enjoyed in DAO and DA 2 opening my tactics screen and sitting there tweaking how my companions should act and react in combat. 

 

In DAI when I first saw the tactics screen my mouth dropped and said "WTF is this crap?" DAI's combat is more like babysitting. Dorian/Solas constantly running into melee and getting hit (which why I never add them my party for combat), Bull chasing after a goat instead of helping tank a boss. ETC. ETC.

 

And then we get to the healing aspect. People complain there are no healing spells like the previous games. Well there is one. The reason why healing spells were needed in the previous games is because the enemies you faced were challenging. Thus when DAI remove these spells a red light should be blaring in your face saying, "Combat is no longer challenging." I've played DAI on nightmare. Sure, it’s a little dicey when your low level, but, as you level up and get good gear, even the dragons are no challenge. Yes, I am aware you can turn on trials even one that gives enemies different moves etc. But this should not have been a trial at all. Why do I need to turn on something to make enemies a challenge? Come On. Bottom line: is enemies are supposed to be a challenge. Not press one button, kill and move on. 

 

I suppose in the end my overall assessment of DAI is this: It is not the worst game nor the best game I have ever played. DAI just came off feeling not like a DA game, but a poor attempt to be more like the Elder of the Scrolls series, complete with excessive hand holding.

 

I assumed DAI would surpass my expectations, alas it did not. I pray to Andraste and The Maker that Dragon Age 4 does not do the same......or worse.

 


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#120
Wolven_Soul

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Maybe not for end-game when you have broken the game through farming, duping, overleveling and crafting. The early game however. I would like to see you prove your "no tactics needed" stance against the pride demon, preferably with a warrior on nightmare. With friendly fire on.

 

In the very early game, sure, you need to be more careful.  But even then, I wouldn't say tactics are necessary because...well...this game doesn't really have hardly anything in the way of tactics, especially in the early game.



#121
Wolven_Soul

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Thread title is relatable to me but for different reasons. 

 

When DA4 comes out I will have to wait maybe a month minimum to check if more morally ambigious, darker, "evil" and villanous RP options will be possible unlike DA:I. I want the options to play a darker character something which was denied you in DA:I on every corner and conversation. Despite raising this criticism multiple times the Bioware writers has never ever commented on this issue. Maybe they don't need to. The majority of the players most likely wants to play a morally good shining knight anyway. 

 

I find it abit hypocritical that they claim to include minorities while at the same time hamstring the main character's ability to RP a darker and more villanous character. There are some moments, but in general the Inquisitor's personality is mostly dictated by the writers with little room for amoral/immoral actions. The fact that they never addressed this to the community or other mediums shows that they are oblivious to it, dont care or that they are aware but can't be honest and straight up with it. Maybe time limitations were a big deal. But if that was the case why not just admit it? If their opinion is that the Inquisitor HAD to be pidgeon holed into a good character - why not just be honest about that too and simply tell us? 

 

I am one of those who tend to play more noble characters, but I definitely like the option to play the darker ones in games like this.  Granted in DA games we're in the business of saving the world, but we were able to make some pretty dark choices in DA:O to get to that point.  We could give the Dwarves back the abilities to turn their people into living hunks of rock, we could destroy the entire mage circle, or slaughter the Elves in favor of the Werewolves.  Darkest choice I remember making in DA:I is Bull's personal mission.



#122
Wolven_Soul

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I think that's one of the complaints about DAI: where in DAO and DA2 (many? most?) players would WANT to do the majority of the content, in games like Skyrim and DAI, they don't want to do most of the content. Granted, there is a LOT more content in DAI than in the previous two games, but if most of that is filler that I don't want to do, what's the point of having more of it? I play Dragon Age for the story, and that's why I like the series more than Elder Scrolls.

 

I disagree about Skyrim.  I found myself wanting to do most of the content in that game.  I enjoyed the side content more than I did the main plot.  The Dark Brotherhood, The Mages Guild, the Companions, the civil war, most of the city quest lines.  I even enjoyed just going out and wandering around in that one.  I can see how others would not agree with me, but I enjoyed Skyrim's content a great deal.


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#123
Wolven_Soul

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Sad to have to go back in time almost a year: Quit blaming cooldowns, healing and other stuff in MMOs. These and other stuff are (awesome and) present in the godlike D&D pnp and the godlike D&D videogames. What D&D don't have and DAI and MMO have is respawning enemies, respawning resources and other boring stuff like these.
MMO mentality is huge maps of boring exploration and no stat building. Godlike supreme overlord of the universe D&D have stat distribution and no boring exploration, everything depends on your stats and skills, a dice and choices. No action, no combat aside from choosing what to do, no timing, nothing except build a character sheet and let it shine.
NWN2 is and will always be supreme and perfect because character sheet is everything and more. Lots of races, lots of classes. RPG = Building character sheet. MMO = Action. Simple as that.
It is a sad world where people think Diablo and Zelda are RPGs... (well Diablo 3 is still more RPG than DAI with the expasion since we have kind of stat distribution)

 

Ohhhh I was with you until you said Zelda is not an RPG.  RPG's are more than just building a character sheet.



#124
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I played DAI numerous times. Thus since I had no PC save for Origins I decided to replay it. You know what? It’s a breath of fresh. To me DAO feels like a an RPG and remembering why I feel in love with the DA series. Seeing then and now how far DA has come should be a cause for celebration, but it is not. Biowore seems to be going backwards, not forward. 

 

I am not saying I completely hate DAI. There are parts of it I do enjoy. When I play DAI if it was not for the lore I would most likely be confused as this being a the third installment in the DA series. 

 

The OP mentions lack of tactics in this game. I agree - ten fold. I enjoyed in DAO and DA 2 opening my tactics screen and sitting there tweaking how my companions should act and react in combat. 

 

In DAI when I first saw the tactics screen my mouth dropped and said "WTF is this crap?" DAI's combat is more like babysitting. Dorian/Solas constantly running into melee and getting hit (which why I never add them my party for combat), Bull chasing after a goat instead of helping tank a boss. ETC. ETC.

 

And then we get to the healing aspect. People complain there are no healing spells like the previous games. Well there is one. The reason why healing spells were needed in the previous games is because the enemies you faced were challenging. Thus when DAI remove these spells a red light should be blaring in your face saying, "Combat is no longer challenging." I've played DAI on nightmare. Sure, it’s a little dicey when your low level, but, as you level up and get good gear, even the dragons are no challenge. Yes, I am aware you can turn on trials even one that gives enemies different moves etc. But this should not have been a trial at all. Why do I need to turn on something to make enemies a challenge? Come On. Bottom line: is enemies are supposed to be a challenge. Not press one button, kill and move on. 

 

I suppose in the end my overall assessment of DAI is this: It is not the worst game nor the best game I have ever played. DAI just came off feeling not like a DA game, but a poor attempt to be more like the Elder of the Scrolls series, complete with excessive hand holding.

 

I assumed DAI would surpass my expectations, alas it did not. I pray to Andraste and The Maker that Dragon Age 4 does not do the same......or worse.

 

 

DAI came across to me as an 'appeal to the masses' action game, which doesn't appeal to me. I played it through on normal setting, ignoring the tactics etc, because I jsut wanted to get the combat oer with and get back to the story and exploring.

 

Unlike some I had no problem with the exploration part of it. I liked that in Skyrim too, but I'm not a fan with what they did with the combat gameplay, or the PC KB&M controls.. or what they didn't do with them.



#125
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That is the DLC I mean. I like the intent of gifts, but dislike the implementation of them.

 

If you ignore the DLC gifts and just use the gifts you find, the evolution of each characters attitude is quite good, and feels organic. That said, giving gifts for approval is silly (as implemented) and I was fine with how DAI handled it.

 

Seeing the gifts back in SWTOR made me laugh. "Why you.. how could you do that, you fiend! That's it I'm... ... oooh shiny"