149 réponses à ce sujet

[The_Real_Lee]

I'd only want race options if it provided a real difference. I want more than the occasional "HEY, RACIST ANTI ELF STUFF" or "I WILL ONLY HAVE SEX WITH ELVES AND HUMANS." Really, the race options had so little effect on what happened in Inquisition that it felt irrelevant.

[stop_him]

Human-only, no thank you. That's what Mass Effect is for.

 

No, especially if it's a human noble. No more stupid, poncy cheesemongers again.  Double "especially" for human females. Dwarf females have traffic cone breasts; female humans have giant tumor bags. 

 

People keep claiming that we'll have a deeper character background if we have a human-only game. LOL, I played a mage Hawke in DA2. Everyone ignored my apostate Hawke rolling around the streets of Kirkwall fireballing away.

[vertigomez]

But this also somewhat misses the point. With race-selection, or rather background selection, there is usually only a small cosmetic amount of insight in to those cultures from the player point of view, since they can't be meaningful for the story itself.

Trying to think of a way to phrase this. With Origins, probably due to the presence of playable backgrounds, I always felt that, say, returning to Orzammar was significant for a dwarf. As a casteless or a noble, I felt keenly aware of my Warden's culture, where he came from and how it influenced his decisions. It didn't matter that the Landsmeet or stopping Loghain was a very "human" affair, or that Broken Circle was all about mages, because my character was still a dwarf, a product of traditional dwarven culture, and that colored his view of the situation. I agree that it could've been handled much better in DAI, but I'll take what I can get.

And I also mentioned physicality. Some people would just rather have pointy ears. Or horns. Or a beard the bards'll write home about.

[Amirit]

This is not quite true. While the other races were added at the last minute, DAI was still built to have different backgrounds for the Inquisitor, with those backgrounds being absorbed in to the races. That is why non-mage human is a noble, as that is the only race/profession able to hold that background.

 

With that in mind, it is really unlikely that the race choice would have had any more meaningful impact on the story if it had been implemented from the beginning as it would have been the same background choice as in the game at the moment.

 

First of all, mage-human is also a noble, from the same family with the same background and same dialogs about it. Like Hawke is Hawke no matter what class you are. They did plan different backgrounds for different classes - that we know, but I never heard about utilizing any piece of it in a races stories.

 

Now, about "it is really unlikely that the race choice would have had any more meaningful impact on the story if it had been implemented from the beginning" - this is rather strange thing to say. Should it REALLY be the thing planned from the start, it WOULD be played differently. The whole story would be different. But it was not planned for different races, only adapted (poorly) - hence, feels very artificial and only to please the crowd (successfully).

[Shaftell]

Human-only, no thank you. That's what Mass Effect is for.

No, especially if it's a human noble. No more stupid, poncy cheesemongers again. Double "especially" for human females. Dwarf females have traffic cone breasts; female humans have giant tumor bags.

People keep claiming that we'll have a deeper character background if we have a human-only game. LOL, I played a mage Hawke in DA2. Everyone ignored my apostate Hawke rolling around the streets of Kirkwall fireballing away.

Who says it has to be a human noble? What if you were given the option to choose a background? Also Hawke isn't a very good example, we all know DA2 was rushed, also we're now in next gen. It is expected that Bioware will do more with it this time around. There's more technology and especially much more time to work with.

[Hiemoth]

First of all, mage-human is also a noble, from the same family with the same background and same dialogs about it. Like Hawke is Hawke no matter what class you are. They did plan different backgrounds for different classes - that we know, but I never heard about utilizing any piece of it in a races stories.

 

Now, about "it is really unlikely that the race choice would have had any more meaningful impact on the story if it had been implemented from the beginning" - this is rather strange thing to say. Should it REALLY be the thing planned from the start, it WOULD be played differently. The whole story would be different. But it was not planned for different races, only adapted (poorly) - hence, feels very artificial and only to please the crowd (successfully).

 

The mage-human is a circle mage. Their opposite background would have been the apostate, which was now included as the elf and qunari-mage. And they did utilize them for the races: Qunari background is the mercenary background, Dwarf background is the criminal background, dalish background is kind of the barbarian background. It's actually somewhat obvious when you look at the backgrounds they set for the different races.

 

And how do you feel they would have played differently? They had allocated resources for those backgrounds and the ways they were to be incorporated to the story. If they had planned to introduce races from the beginning, the allocation of resources would probably been the same. During development they actually pointed out that by removing the origins, the resources that would have been used to those could be spread over the game itself.

 

They have limited amount of dev resources. This is why DAO largely ignores the Warden race outside some special situations or why Hawke is required to have a set background to have reactivity in the story. For all the background choices to have a strong impact on the story would require an insane amount of resources as they would have to essentially craft the campaign specifically for each species. Or allocate resources to create actually interactive sidequests which would missed by majority of players.

[Hiemoth]

Who says it has to be a human noble? What if you were given the option to choose a background? Also Hawke isn't a very good example, we all know DA2 was rushed, also we're now in next gen. It is expected that Bioware will do more with it this time around. There's more technology and especially much more time to work with.

 

The human noble actually always confuses me as Hawke's background wasn't actually a human noble, but rather a human peasant or apostate mage.

[Hiemoth]

Trying to think of a way to phrase this. With Origins, probably due to the presence of playable backgrounds, I always felt that, say, returning to Orzammar was significant for a dwarf. As a casteless or a noble, I felt keenly aware of my Warden's culture, where he came from and how it influenced his decisions. It didn't matter that the Landsmeet or stopping Loghain was a very "human" affair, or that Broken Circle was all about mages, because my character was still a dwarf, a product of traditional dwarven culture, and that colored his view of the situation. I agree that it could've been handled much better in DAI, but I'll take what I can get.

And I also mentioned physicality. Some people would just rather have pointy ears. Or horns. Or a beard the bards'll write home about.

 

And I would never argue against how people felt in those situations as that is an extremely subjective experience. Even though for example Orzammar, from a functional point of view, plays exactly the same with Dwarf Noble or City Elf, I can understand if people get a different kick for playing it with those different characters. Just as, for me personally, it didn't ultimately pack that much impact as the game largely ignored who the character was in that world as opposed to DA2 where Hawke was clearly someone in that world.

 

I have nothing against people asking for the experience they enjoy, after all I am doing the same for hoping for a set background. What perhaps for me is always the issue is when the discussion is had from the point of view of demanding both things happening in the same game instead of understanding that it is ultimately a question of trading off something for something else. Does that make any sense?

 

And by the way, it is possible to have a set background with different races, for example the former slave background would allow for multiple races while having the set background that can have impact in the story and have characters from the PCs past also have a presence there.

[vertigomez]

And I would never argue against how people felt in those situations as that is an extremely subjective experience. Even though for example Orzammar, from a functional point of view, plays exactly the same with Dwarf Noble or City Elf, I can understand if people get a different kick for playing it with those different characters. Just as, for me personally, it didn't ultimately pack that much impact as the game largely ignored who the character was in that world as opposed to DA2 where Hawke was clearly someone in that world.
 
I have nothing against people asking for the experience they enjoy, after all I am doing the same for hoping for a set background. What perhaps for me is always the issue is when the discussion is had from the point of view of demanding both things happening in the same game instead of understanding that it is ultimately a question of trading off something for something else. Does that make any sense?
 
And by the way, it is possible to have a set background with different races, for example the former slave background would allow for multiple races while having the set background that can have impact in the story and have characters from the PCs past also have a presence there.

I concur, and it does make perfect sense. What it comes down to is what's more important to each player, and obviously that's... not consistent. *shrugs* The devs can only listen to feedback and do their best ad infinitum. I don't think they're ever going to find a perfect balance between reactivity and options, and they're definitely never going to please everybody.

Former slave background works fairly well, but I'd have trouble buying it for a dwarf given Orzammar's relationship with the Imperium. I don't know if there's ever been a dwarven slave. But if they wanted to, I'm sure they could write such a thing convincingly.

[KotorEffect3]

II'd rather racial options than not.  Finished off a dwarfquisitor playthrough the other day and now I am rolling an elfquisitor.  It adds replay value.

[Amirit]

The mage-human is a circle mage. Their opposite background would have been the apostate, which was now included as the elf and qunari-mage. And they did utilize them for the races: Qunari background is the mercenary background, Dwarf background is the criminal background, dalish background is kind of the barbarian background. It's actually somewhat obvious when you look at the backgrounds they set for the different races.

 

And how do you feel they would have played differently? They had allocated resources for those backgrounds and the ways they were to be incorporated to the story. If they had planned to introduce races from the beginning, the allocation of resources would probably been the same. During development they actually pointed out that by removing the origins, the resources that would have been used to those could be spread over the game itself.

 

They have limited amount of dev resources. This is why DAO largely ignores the Warden race outside some special situations or why Hawke is required to have a set background to have reactivity in the story. For all the background choices to have a strong impact on the story would require an insane amount of resources as they would have to essentially craft the campaign specifically for each species. Or allocate resources to create actually interactive sidequests which would missed by majority of players.

 

 

"Would", "could", "possibly" and so on. All we know for sure is that there were background planned. But we have no idea how far did they go with them or were those background anyhow incorporated into the story or it was something like in ME - only short descriptions (as we got at the end) and one insignificant mission.

 

Should they plan races from the start - not transforming that little of backgrounds they had (even if they did that) the whole story would be full of race reactivity without facepalming at every corner for clear mistreating other races for humans.

[fizzypop]

No way. I think they need to do MORE for race selection. Not just a better CC, but better backgrounds too. It doesn't have to be playable like DAO, but being able to pick how my character ended up where they did is meaningful. I have Marianna who is my elf quizzy w/ American VA. My back story for her is that she was a servant to a wealthy family in Kirkwall for a period of time eventually found her way to a Dalish clan. I hate having not having a few different back grounds to choose from.

[Aren]

 

I'd only agree to having one race option so long as it isn't a human

But human is master race for protagonists isn't it?

Unless you're playing Ocarina of Time (that were good times)

[Aren]

Former slave background works fairly well, but I'd have trouble buying it for a dwarf given Orzammar's relationship with the Imperium. I don't know if there's ever been a dwarven slave. But if they wanted to, I'm sure they could write such a thing convincingly.

Technically those relationships were something like partnership of 2000-3000 years old,in the DA i don't know what kind of relationship there is between the Imperium and the Dwarves,especially after that their gods literally  killed an entire underground empire.

Bhelen from DAO of Harrowant or the nobility didn't give to me the impression to care about tevinter.

[Nefla]

People keep saying how amazing these human-only, non-playable backgrounds would have been but they did that exact thing for Mass Effect and it wasn't exactly thrilling (race in DA:O and DA:I came up way more often than Shepard's background). Hawke was one character of one race from one background and that background was still undeveloped. Give me race choices any day.

[Phoe77]

I think that part of the reason I'm not too attached to race choices is that I never really feel like my character is really familiar with his or her own culture.  My latest playthrough was as a human mage, but even then I felt like there were way too many times when my character had to defer to someone else's knowledge of magic rather than applying his own.  The arcane knowledge perk mitigates that somewhat, but even then I often get to listen to Dorian tell me about how some aspect of magic works.  I know that "mage" isn't a race per se, but I feel the same way about elven topics.  Dwarves and Qunari at least have the excuse of not actually being a part of their races' culture.

[Phoe77]

People keep saying how amazing these human-only, non-playable backgrounds would have been but they did that exact thing for Mass Effect and it wasn't exactly thrilling (race in DA:O and DA:I came up way more often than Shepard's background). Hawke was one character of one race from one background and that background was still undeveloped. Give me race choices any day.

 

The Shepard thing has more to do with the fact that adding those background references wasn't as big of a priority in Mass Effect as it was in the Dragon Age games.  Just because I believe that a set background allows for a character to feel more connected to the narrative doesn't mean that I think that all games with a set background are going to capitalize on that potential.

[Ryzaki]

Yes please.

 

Just with diverse backgrounds to make up for it.

 

I have no issue with human only protag.

 

Long live human only protagonists \o/

[trevelyan_shep]

No thank you, I only play elves so if we were forced to play a human I wouldn't buy it.

[NoForgiveness]

No thank you, I only play elves so if we were forced to play a human I wouldn't buy it.

 

*reads post..*

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

 

*sees name*

 

[Navasha]

As long as the one one race is an Elf!  Sure.   I wouldn't mind that.   Since I know that the chances of that happening are zero, then multi-race option is the only way forward for me. 

[vertigomez]

Technically those relationships were something like partnership of 2000-3000 years old,in the DA i don't know what kind of relationship there is between the Imperium and the Dwarves,especially after that their gods literally  killed an entire underground empire.
Bhelen from DAO of Harrowant or the nobility didn't give to me the impression to care about tevinter.

Wut? Tevinter still has an excellent relationship with the dwarves. Dorian says as much, and there are dwarven embassies and Proving arenas all over Tevinter... they pretty much have to be on good terms, given the lyrium trade.

[trevelyan_shep]

*reads post..*

...

...

...


*sees name*

I just picked two names off the top of my head lol. I've played ME, though.

[Hiemoth]

"Would", "could", "possibly" and so on. All we know for sure is that there were background planned. But we have no idea how far did they go with them or were those background anyhow incorporated into the story or it was something like in ME - only short descriptions (as we got at the end) and one insignificant mission.

 

Should they plan races from the start - not transforming that little of backgrounds they had (even if they did that) the whole story would be full of race reactivity without facepalming at every corner for clear mistreating other races for humans.

 

In DAO, they had the race choice from the very beginning. During the game, there were less reactions than in DAI. As much as you criticize my hypotheticals, you haven't actually provided any justification why you feel they would have had more impact if they were there from the beginning. Again, to repeat myself, my view is based on the fact of limited development resources.

[Bigdoser]

Wut? Tevinter still has an excellent relationship with the dwarves. Dorian says as much, and there are dwarven embassies and Proving arenas all over Tevinter... they pretty much have to be on good terms, given the lyrium trade.

Yeah Dorian also notes that there are quite a few Tal-Vashoth there and talking with them they seems like a whole different people. It seems the people of Tevinter "get" Qunari a lot more than the south considering they are constanly trying to conquer them and I suspect they have just as many deserters considering Dorian notes a lot of them are Merchants and Mercenaries.