So a country that comdemns the act of murder finds it natural to apply justice by murdering the murderer?
Yes. It was entirely routine and nigh universal for most of history. That you perceive it as contradictory is a product of premises and definitions that they did not or do not hold in common with you. That it goes against what you or I might think of as right does not make it internally contradictory. To determine that, you have to use their premises and definitions.
You do know that the Iron Bull would of done the same thing.
Hell, Lelliana would of done the same thing.
Do you have any particular examples of either of them doing something similar?
It's just my impression of how the Tallis character comes off, not some declaration of her relative moral quality in comparison to other companions. There are lots of Bioware companions who can be just as hypocritical, but Tallis strikes me as particular smug, and I think a lot of her characterization seems forced.
Do you have any particular examples of either of them doing something similar?
It's just my impression of how the Tallis character comes off, not some declaration of her relative moral quality in comparison to other companions. There are lots of Bioware companions who can be just as hypocritical, but Tallis strikes me as particular smug, and I think a lot of her characterization seems forced.
1.Example one. Works you you for years, flirts with Cassandra, has a relationship with Dorian.....Betrays them both if he's still with the qun in trespasser.
2.https://www.youtube....h?v=eNcP466v9zk
My point, this comes with being an Assasin and a spy.
I thought he already had the Tome when he set sail to the South (supposing his destination was indeed Kirkwall; DA2 doesn't make it clear).
Isabela stole the Tome when the dreadnought was already in Southern waters, perhaps around Antiva and Rivain, where, we know (thanks to the Trespasser Epilogue on Josephine's fate) there are many pirates who predate on all sorts of ships.
So their coming to the South could have been to stage an invasion. A test attack. But stealing the Tome halted their plans. We can't know for sure.
If I remember well, it was the Orlesians who had the Tome at that time and the Arishok was sent to them when they proposed to give it back (and knowing the Orlesian, there was probably some sort of Game-thingy going on with that). It was once he was returning home that his fleet was attacked and the Tome stolen again.
Logic says they are clustered together at key point that causes the place they are in to implode.
But that's just me.
And no it was not an insane plan.
Stop trying to warp things to support your argument.
Right, and that wouldn't look at all suspicious. Placing odd looking "wine" barrels around every pillar in the palace. 
It was a plan with no chance of success. Viddasala was delusional.
I'm not warping anything. I am demanding my entertainment make sense. You are just embracing whatever BioWare writes.
Oh.
So that's what this is really about :>
No. The story with Viddasala would not make sense either way. That was just a side point to identify the cause of the symptom. Or do you think forcing our Inquisitors to hide the Qunari body from the Council is just good storytelling?
I find it odd how the same people who complained that their Hawkes merely verbally condemned blood magic now seem to ignore the fact that our Inquisitors are shady deceptions artists who hide bodies for no reason.
Right, and that wouldn't look at all suspicious. Placing odd looking "wine" barrels around every pillar in the palace.
It was a plan with no chance of success. Viddasala was delusional.
I'm not warping anything. I am demanding my entertainment make sense. You are just embracing whatever BioWare writes.
Like noble notice anything the help does in the back. Wicked Eyes and Wicked Hearts proves that point to a fault.
Dude the plan would of succeeded. Only Solas was the one to make it fail. The inquistion did would not even notice it if Solas' spies did not point it out.
No. The story with Viddasala would not make sense either way. That was just a side point to identify the cause of the symptom. Or do you think forcing our Inquisitors to hide the Qunari body from the Council is just good storytelling?
I find it odd how the same people who complained that their Hawkes merely verbally condemned blood magic now seem to ignore the fact that our Inquisitors are shady deceptions artists who hide bodies for no reason.
I'm glad someone brought it up. I've been waiting the chance to say something about that weird episode.
I was really pissed that my Inquisitor wasn't given the option to show the body to any of the ambassadors. I felt like my hands were tied.
When Teagan and Cyril came running to the war room, I just wanted to answer that hiding the Qunari soldier wasn't my idea. And to say I was sorry I allowed my allies to deceive them.
Glad that someone else also disliked what Bioware forced the Inquisitor to do. And we weren't even given the option to talk to them about the threat of Solas or the Qunari...t'was frustrating.
1.Example one. Works you you for years, flirts with Cassandra, has a relationship with Dorian.....Betrays them both if he's still with the qun in trespasser.
2.https://www.youtube....h?v=eNcP466v9zk
My point, this comes with being an Assasin and a spy.
What comes with it? Betrayal and shady antics? You and I are clearly talking about different things, because what I expressed irritation with was the impression of self righteousness and inconsistency that I perceive in her attitude. It's my personal, subjective reaction to the character. I don't think there's any debate to be had here, because it boils down to the fact that the writing with her just bugged me.
What comes with it? Betrayal and shady antics? You and I are clearly talking about different things, because what I expressed irritation with was the impression of self righteousness and inconsistency that I perceive in her attitude. It's my personal, subjective reaction to the character. I don't think there's any debate to be had here, because it boils down to the fact that the writing with her just bugged me.
Then you missing my point. The thing with spys and assassin is that they use mask...Emotionally. They cover their emotions with a mask of emotions. So yes one can make a joke before killing some suddenly and being sorry about it.
Also, she even admits to you that her job is a contradiction. She has to be a free think being who is able of choice and flexibility for a society the demands the opposite by the very demand of that culture to do her job. Bull tells you this as well.
So Bull betrayal is not different the how she acts. The difference are how they do their job.
Then you missing my point. The thing with spys and assassin is that they use mask...Emotionally. The caver their emotions with a mask of emotions. So yes one can make a joke before killing some suddenly and being sorry about it.
Also, she even admits to you that her job is a contradiction. She has to be a free think being who is able of choice and flexibility for a society the demands the opposite by the very demand of that culture to do her job. Bull tells you this as well.
So Bull betrayal is not different the how she acts. The difference are how they do their job.
Your explanation is reasonable, and I can easily believe that Tallis' regret is genuine. It still doesn't make me like the character any better.
Your explanation is reasonable, and I can easily believe that Tallis' regret is genuine. It still doesn't make me like the character any better.
True, but it makes her understandable. Not every character is made to be liked.
I'm glad someone brought it up. I've been waiting the chance to say something about that weird episode.
I was really pissed that my Inquisitor wasn't given the option to show the body to any of the ambassadors. I felt like my hands were tied.
When Teagan and Cyril came running to the war room, I just wanted to answer that hiding the Qunari soldier wasn't my idea. And to say I was sorry I allowed my allies to deceive them.
Glad that someone else also disliked what Bioware forced the Inquisitor to do. And we weren't even given the option to talk to them about the threat of Solas or the Qunari...t'was frustrating.
When the first Qunari body is found, the Inquisitor has no information other than the presence of the body and a bloody trail leading to the Eluvian. We the players know where the trail leads, but the Inquisitor does not. She does know, unless you are playing her as a fool, that the ambassadors are not her friends, and that they will spin the presence of a dead Qunari who came from an Eluvian to suit their needs.
Both Orlais and Ferelden, represented by Cyril and Teagan respectively, view the Inquisition as a threat. Quite rightly so. The Inquisition is an army with an expanding power base that is answerable to no temporal power. It has meddled in Orlesian and Tevinter politics, established military outposts, requisitioned lands to bolster its finances, and claimed for itself the right to judge and punish whomever it wants. Ostensibly set up to end the Mage Rebellion, the Inquisition has steadily expanded its mission to include "fighting evil" and "maintaining order" at the point of the sword and regardless of existing authorities. It has done so for "good reasons", but that doesn't make it any less of a threat.
The only difference between Cyril and Teagan is that one thinks it can be subsumed into the Orlesian state apparatus, and the other knows the Inquisitor won't quietly become a Fereldan or Orlesian subject and so argues that instead it should be disbanded.
So if Cyril sees the Qunari corpse, he'll talk about how the Inquisition is in over its head fighting the Qunari; and Teagan will talk about how the Inquisition is drawing Theadas into "another war". Neither will be happy about letting the Inquisitor do her own investigating, and both will use it as ammunition against the Inquisitor, because absence of information has never stopped someone in their position from spinning stories.
So the Inquisitor could bring in the ambassadors and show them the body, but it would probably just make things worse.
More generally, it's made clear over the course of Trespasser that the Inquisition cannot continue as an independent army that careens about the land searching for wrongs to right. It threatens too many powerful interests. Nothing the Inquisitor can present: the threat of a Qunari invasion, of Solas destroying the world, or anything else, will allow the Inquisition to survive.
Making public that Solas, who was a close ally of the Inquisition, is now trying to burn down Theadas, is probably the worst thing the Inquisitor can do. Even if the Inquisitor hated Solas, she will be tainted by association. Bonus points if she's an elf: "We're elves, together we're two elves, then we need to be elfy because we're elves for other elves and elf, elf elf."
When the first Qunari body is found, the Inquisitor has no information other than the presence of the body and a bloody trail leading to the Eluvian. We the players know where the trail leads, but the Inquisitor does not. She does know, unless you are playing her as a fool, that the ambassadors are not her friends, and that they will spin the presence of a dead Qunari who came from an Eluvian to suit their needs.
Both Orlais and Ferelden, represented by Cyril and Teagan respectively, view the Inquisition as a threat. Quite rightly so. The Inquisition is an army with an expanding power base that is answerable to no temporal power. It has meddled in Orlesian and Tevinter politics, established military outposts, requisitioned lands to bolster its finances, and claimed for itself the right to judge and punish whomever it wants. Ostensibly set up to end the Mage Rebellion, the Inquisition has steadily expanded its mission to include "fighting evil" and "maintaining order" at the point of the sword and regardless of existing authorities. It has done so for "good reasons", but that doesn't make it any less of a threat.
The only difference between Cyril and Teagan is that one thinks it can be subsumed into the Orlesian state apparatus, and the other knows the Inquisitor won't quietly become a Fereldan or Orlesian subject and so argues that instead it should be disbanded.
So if Cyril sees the Qunari corpse, he'll talk about how the Inquisition is in over its head fighting the Qunari; and Teagan will talk about how the Inquisition is drawing Theadas into "another war". Neither will be happy about letting the Inquisitor do her own investigating, and both will use it as ammunition against the Inquisitor, because absence of information has never stopped someone in their position from spinning stories.
So the Inquisitor could bring in the ambassadors and show them the body, but it would probably just make things worse.
More generally, it's made clear over the course of Trespasser that the Inquisition cannot continue as an independent army that careens about the land searching for wrongs to right. It threatens too many powerful interests. Nothing the Inquisitor can present: the threat of a Qunari invasion, of Solas destroying the world, or anything else, will allow the Inquisition to survive.
Making public that Solas, who was a close ally of the Inquisition, is now trying to burn down Theadas, is probably the worst thing the Inquisitor can do. Even if the Inquisitor hated Solas, she will be tainted by association. Bonus points if she's an elf: "We're elves, together we're two elves, then we need to be elfy because we're elves for other elves and elf, elf elf."
It's true. The Inquisitor faces an inescapable conundrum. To reveal the body or not to reveal, that is the question.
But I believe that for him/her to just leave the Exalted Council and be away for a great deal of time without her advisors giving any satisfaction to the ambassadors will breed even more mistrust than if the Inquisition kept silent about the whole investigation.
They must tell them something. A lie, carefully concocted by our Spymaster, no doubt, but some believable story must be spun to appease their concerns.
The Exalted Council was the opportunity for the Inquisitor to build bridges by assuaging the two countries' fears regarding the reach of the Inquisition's forces and the possible disrespect to sovereignity. All they wanted was an assurance that the Inquisition would become a predictable organisation. That it's role in international politics would be crystal clear. There was the chance for compromise and for the institution to protect its very existence.
But alas, we never had that option in the game. When we are given the chance to tell the Council something, the investigation is already too advanced and the ambassadors already conclude that the Inquisitor was purposefully withholding important information from them, thus breeding more mistrust.
Politics. Tsk, tsk.
When the first Qunari body is found, the Inquisitor has no information other than the presence of the body and a bloody trail leading to the Eluvian. We the players know where the trail leads, but the Inquisitor does not. She does know, unless you are playing her as a fool, that the ambassadors are not her friends, and that they will spin the presence of a dead Qunari who came from an Eluvian to suit their needs.
Both Orlais and Ferelden, represented by Cyril and Teagan respectively, view the Inquisition as a threat. Quite rightly so. The Inquisition is an army with an expanding power base that is answerable to no temporal power. It has meddled in Orlesian and Tevinter politics, established military outposts, requisitioned lands to bolster its finances, and claimed for itself the right to judge and punish whomever it wants. Ostensibly set up to end the Mage Rebellion, the Inquisition has steadily expanded its mission to include "fighting evil" and "maintaining order" at the point of the sword and regardless of existing authorities. It has done so for "good reasons", but that doesn't make it any less of a threat.
The only difference between Cyril and Teagan is that one thinks it can be subsumed into the Orlesian state apparatus, and the other knows the Inquisitor won't quietly become a Fereldan or Orlesian subject and so argues that instead it should be disbanded.
So if Cyril sees the Qunari corpse, he'll talk about how the Inquisition is in over its head fighting the Qunari; and Teagan will talk about how the Inquisition is drawing Theadas into "another war". Neither will be happy about letting the Inquisitor do her own investigating, and both will use it as ammunition against the Inquisitor, because absence of information has never stopped someone in their position from spinning stories.
So the Inquisitor could bring in the ambassadors and show them the body, but it would probably just make things worse.
More generally, it's made clear over the course of Trespasser that the Inquisition cannot continue as an independent army that careens about the land searching for wrongs to right. It threatens too many powerful interests. Nothing the Inquisitor can present: the threat of a Qunari invasion, of Solas destroying the world, or anything else, will allow the Inquisition to survive.
Making public that Solas, who was a close ally of the Inquisition, is now trying to burn down Theadas, is probably the worst thing the Inquisitor can do. Even if the Inquisitor hated Solas, she will be tainted by association. Bonus points if she's an elf: "We're elves, together we're two elves, then we need to be elfy because we're elves for other elves and elf, elf elf."
There is no harm in revealing what happened, even if you have a Qunari alliance. The eluvian belongs to Celene. If anyone is to be looked at suspiciously, it's her. If you have an alliance, you could hypothesize that the Qunari were trying to warn you of danger. Again, showing the body to the Council shows that you are honest, trustworthy, and still needed.
I think it's been well established that the two representatives were just trying to manipulate the Inquisition to do what was in their best interests. What you say about the Inquisition is false. For example, they did not claim the power to judge and punish whoever they want. Josephine confirms that the nations have granted the Inquisition authority to judge various matters. Like judging Florienne or Erimond. The Inquisition does not extend it's mission to anything beyond ending Corypheus and sealing the Breach. Cleaning up the rest of Corypheus' minions and closing remaining rifts is part of that. There is no saber rattling going on in the Inquisition.
Cyril would have no idea what a Qunari was doing there or if he event meant to be in the palace in the first place. Same goes for Teagan. And any claim the Inquisition is drawing anyone into "another" war is baseless. The Inquisition drew no one into any war prior to that, and if the Qunari are attacking, it has nothing to do with the Inquisition and everything to do with the Qunari breaking their peace treaty with the south. You're also forgetting that this is much more preferable to the two reps finding out about the body on their own. In which case they will be made that it was covered up, AND they will still make their speculations, only with stronger basis because you tried to cover it up. Spinning stories without information is just baseless speculation. If they want to look foolish in doing so, let them.
Except the Inquisition can survive at the end of the game. So your argument is wrong. And no one suggested the Inquisition stomp around Thedas doing whatever it wants. In fact, Trespasser gave us no options in how to define our respective Inquisitions. Which is one reason why the DLC was poorly written.
The connection to Solas means nothing. Both countries had their connections to bad or deceptive people. Orlais had Gaspard and Briala, or Florienne for that matter. Ferelden had Loghain and the mages. So they can't pull that card on the Inquisition, especially since Solas actually helped save the world and the Inquisition did not give him what he wanted in return.
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