234 réponses à ce sujet

[aoibhealfae]

If the reapers didn't have the mind scrambling abilities, conventional victory might be possible. Instead the reapers depended on their drones to do their work for them.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Of course conventional victory is possible. The Reapers are wayyyyyy outnumbered. That is, if you didn't kill off entire species during ME3. A golden ending is certainly possible, provided you've got turians, quarians, salarians, asari, geth, rachni, etc., united.

[themikefest]

Of course conventional victory is possible. The Reapers are wayyyyyy outnumbered. That is, if you didn't kill off entire species during ME3. A golden ending is certainly possible, provided you've got turians, quarians, salarians, asari, geth, rachni, etc., united.

Out numbered? No. Here's a post explaining how many they might have at the start of this cycle

[AlanC9]

Even if we don't go that far, the 200+ Reapers seen at the end of ME2 would be quite capable of defeating the Citadel fleets.

[AlanC9]

And as long as we're on the subject....

Of course conventional victory is possible. The Reapers are wayyyyyy outnumbered. That is, if you didn't kill off entire species during ME3. A golden ending is certainly possible, provided you've got turians, quarians, salarians, asari, geth, rachni, etc., united.

...what the hell are you talking about? It's quite possible to get through ME3 without killing off any of these. A couple can't be kilked off at all.

[aoibhealfae]

technically only Control ending kept everyone alive including Shepard.....

[Undead Han]

technically only Control ending kept everyone alive including Shepard.....

 

Shepard is dead in the aftermath of Control. 

 

The Catalyst specifically tells Shepard that he/she will die if Control is chosen, and if you go that route you see Shepard electrocuted. The A.I. just mimics Shepard's mind.

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

And as long as we're on the subject....


...what the hell are you talking about? It's quite possible to get through ME3 without killing off any of these. A couple can't be kilked off at all.

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking how about a galaxy united with all of those fleets would be quite the force. Not listing the species that you can genocide.

[themikefest]

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking how about a galaxy united with all of those fleets would be quite the force. Not listing the species that you can genocide.

Yes all the fleets would be a force to reckon with, but not against the reapers. If by chance the reapers were to take a lot of losses above Earth, they would just call for reinforcements to help out. The fleets can't do that because everyone is at Earth. The fleets would be destroyed.

[Iakus]

Even if we don't go that far, the 200+ Reapers seen at the end of ME2 would be quite capable of defeating the Citadel fleets.

Would have been more of a fight, though.  The Reapers would have to be careful about not losing any of their numbers.  And each one taken down would have been a measurable drop in their overall strength. 

 

They'd absolutely have to have blitzed the Citadel for a "divide and conquer" strategy.

[themikefest]

Would have been more of a fight, though.  The Reapers would have to be careful about not losing any of their numbers.  And each one taken down would have been a measurable drop in their overall strength. 

 

They'd absolutely have to have blitzed the Citadel for a "divide and conquer" strategy.

If they were to shutoff a relay for that system, that system would be in trouble. They would not be able to have reinforcements help out since that system would most likely be a lost cause by the time anyone was able to help. The reapers would do this for each system. They would win very easily.

 

For each Capital ship, there's at least 5 destroyers. That's my guess. It might be more destroyers.

 

If the reapers were to spread themselves all over the place like they did in ME3, using only 200 capital ships plus destroyers, troop transport ships, processing ships, and the relay's not shutoff, then yes, the organics have a chance to beat them. The key would be to take as few losses as possible while destroying the reapers

[Iakus]

If they were to shutoff a relay for that system, that system would be in trouble. They would not be able to have reinforcements help out since that system would most likely be a lost cause by the time anyone was able to help. The reapers would do this for each system. They would win very easily.

 

For each Capital ship, there's at least 5 destroyers. That's my guess. It might be more destroyers.

 

If the reapers were to spread themselves all over the place like they did in ME3, using only 200 capital ships plus destroyers, troop transport ships, processing ships, and the relay's not shutoff, then yes, the organics have a chance to beat them. The key would be to take as few losses as possible while destroying the reapers

Indeed.  That's how they've been doing is for unknown millions of years.

 

I actually go with ten destroyers per Sovereign.  Assuming this cycle is typical, and not an overly abundant/scarce cycle as far as advanced life goes.

 

Having that few Reapers would be exactly why their old system would make sense.  The Reapers are mighty, but not invincible.  They can take any one or even two of the races at a time.  but they can't fight the entire galaxy at once.

 

Then came ME3 where they suddenly can attack Arcturus Station with more dreadnoughts than the entire galaxy has got, and not even slow down their invasion of Earth or Palaven.

[AlanC9]

That's not what I was talking about. I was talking how about a galaxy united with all of those fleets would be quite the force. Not listing the species that you can genocide.

Right. But that's where we end up at the end of ME3. Quite the force? Sure. Enough to win? Nope.

[AlanC9]

If the reapers were to spread themselves all over the place like they did in ME3, using only 200 capital ships plus destroyers, troop transport ships, processing ships, and the relay's not shutoff, then yes, the organics have a chance to beat them. The key would be to take as few losses as possible while destroying the reapers

Of course, that strategy only works as long as the Reapers consent to it. You'd have to wipe out large numbers of them simultaneously.

[themikefest]

I wouldn't send the forces to different system to destroy the reapers simultaneously. That would lessen the chance of destroying the reapers in that system. I would send all forces to each system individually. Do like what the reapers do. Win with overwhelming numbers.

[Dean_the_Young]

I wouldn't send the forces to different system to destroy the reapers simultaneously. That would lessen the chance of destroying the reapers in that system. I would send all forces to each system individually. Do like what the reapers do. Win with overwhelming numbers.

 

And the Reapers would stick around to be destroyed piecemeal because... why?

 

They have FTL too, you know. If there's ever an armada they can't fight because it's too big for them, they can just rabbit away from the fight.

 

Meanwhile, while your eggs are in one basket, they're still at all the others. And when you leave to go to the next, they return to this one. All the while able to do their own hit-and-run on your armada, or exploit relay choke points, and otherwise pick a fight at their own choosing and forcing the fleet to defend its own supply lines.

[Dean_the_Young]

Of course, that strategy only works as long as the Reapers consent to it. You'd have to wipe out large numbers of them simultaneously.

 

That seems to be a theme of most conventional victory strategies, doesn't it? The Reapers will just stand up and wait for us to knock them down... and without doing onto us as we would do unto them.

 

Hit and run tactics? Strangely, the Reapers never seem to do so against the supply lines or factory worlds or population centers of our conventional victory. Instead they're always on the defense.

 

Recruiting allies to increase the size? Our alliances will be strong and firm, but despite indoctrination the Reapers will always be limited to their initial numbers plus insignificant and ignorrable husks, and will never play politics (even the indoctrinated sort).

 

Pack thanix canons and reaper tech weapons on every space-worthy ship to be used as canon fodder? Notice how there's never a Reaper equivalent with the ships they might capture.

 

Hiding in darkspace and unexplored systems to buy time and build an impossible armada? Clearly the Reapers could never do the same to us in turn, even if the war did begin to go against them.

 

And, of course, the Reapers will never, ever withdraw from a losing fight.

[themikefest]

And the Reapers would stick around to be destroyed piecemeal because... why?
 
They have FTL too, you know. If there's ever an armada they can't fight because it's too big for them, they can just rabbit away from the fight.
 
Meanwhile, while your eggs are in one basket, they're still at all the others. And when you leave to go to the next, they return to this one. All the while able to do their own hit-and-run on your armada, or exploit relay choke points, and otherwise pick a fight at their own choosing and forcing the fleet to defend its own supply lines.

So you're saying there would be no way to defeat two hundread reapers if they're spread out in the galaxy like they are in ME3?

I would agree if all two hundred were to go to each system, one at a time, and shutoff the relay, cutting off reinforcements for that system. Once they disable any defenses for that system, they repeat for the rest of the galaxy, then go back and start the harvest.

[kalikilic]

So you're saying there would be no way to defeat two hundread reapers if they're spread out in the galaxy like they are in ME3?

I would agree if all two hundred were to go to each system, one at a time, and shutoff the relay, cutting off reinforcements for that system. Once they disable any defenses for that system, they repeat for the rest of the galaxy, then go back and start the harvest.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

you changed your avatar!

 

y u do dis 2 me?!

 

             

[themikefest]

nooooooooooooooooooooooooo

 

you changed your avatar!

 

y u do dis 2 me?!

 

             

Its the same person.

[Reorte]

So you're saying there would be no way to defeat two hundread reapers if they're spread out in the galaxy like they are in ME3?

Probably not. They're not idle whilst you're attacking them one at a time and once they've lost a few that way the rest probably aren't going to be sitting around on their own for long waiting to be attacked. They'd have to be real idiots to fall like that (so maybe it would work after all...)

[themikefest]

Probably not. They're not idle whilst you're attacking them one at a time and once they've lost a few that way the rest probably aren't going to be sitting around on their own for long waiting to be attacked. They'd have to be real idiots to fall like that (so maybe it would work after all...)

They were idiots in ME3, right? They had to be for the organics to stop them. For the numbers they might have, there is no way to defeat them. The only way to defeat them is to find the plans for the device, build it, and then use it before they enter the galaxy.

[Dean_the_Young]

So you're saying there would be no way to defeat two hundread reapers if they're spread out in the galaxy like they are in ME3?
 

 

If they were smart? Not really. The Reapers not only have the better means to wage a conventional war, but an unconventional one. They can flee faster, further,

 

Even if the war turned against them, the Reapers could retreat, build up conventional in unexplored systems that the Reapers have had like a billion years to map out and know, and wait for the galaxy to de-mobilize off the war footing and exploit their eventually lowered guard with indoctrinated spies and such.

 

 

I would agree if all two hundred were to go to each system, one at a time, and shutoff the relay, cutting off reinforcements for that system. Once they disable any defenses for that system, they repeat for the rest of the galaxy, then go back and start the harvest.

 

 

That's one way to do it. There are plenty of others if the Reapers are willing to be ruthless- and considering they're willing to destroy entire biospheres in the course of their harvesting, I think it's safe to say.

 

Blowing up Mass Relays would be an amazing strategy for the Reapers, for example. Not so good against Reapers themselves, who have FTL, but great against those pesky planets that are holding out. Then, with the main relay pair broken, the sector is isolated.

[themikefest]

If they were smart? Not really. The Reapers not only have the better means to wage a conventional war, but an unconventional one. They can flee faster, further,

How many systems are the reapers in during ME3? 30? 40? That would put them at anywhere from 5-7 or 8 capital ships plus destroyers for each system using the two hundred number. Against all the organic fleets, they would be destroyed fairly easily before any could runaway. Any reinforcements that might show up would be too late since by that time the organic fleets have moved on to the next system. It wouldn't take long for the allied fleets to deal with the reapers in that system. This is based on who is leading the attacks and how they do the attacks.

If the organic fleets are able to shutoff the relay, it would make it a lot easier
 

Even if the war turned against them, the Reapers could retreat, build up conventional in unexplored systems that the Reapers have had like a billion years to map out and know, and wait for the galaxy to de-mobilize off the war footing and exploit their eventually lowered guard with indoctrinated spies and such.

Maybe. It would take them a long time to do that. While that's happening, the organics build up their strength awaiting for them the next time, and may have weapons to match the reapers weapons.
 

[Dean_the_Young]

How many systems are the reapers in during ME3? 30? 40? That would put them at anywhere from 5-7 or 8 capital ships plus destroyers for each system using the two hundred number.

 

 

The exact numbers are not only unknowable- Mass Effect is highly inconsistent with its populations- but Reaper numbers are firmly established as much higher. It may be poor writing, but Reaper numbers are far more than 200.

 

 

 

 

Against all the organic fleets, they would be destroyed fairly easily before any could runaway.

 

 

And see, this is why you're chasing the wrong metric- the strength or size of the fleets is irrelevant to the Reapers running away. Fleeing is easy in the Mass Effect universe- that's why most War Assets survive to be recruited- and engagement ranges aren't cross-system. Lightspeed lag and all that.

 

If all the organic fleets came into a system, Reapers could flee before all the organic fleets got into firing formation and the rounds reach. The numbers are irrelevant, because superior numbers don't trap the Reapers.

 

 

Any reinforcements that might show up would be too late since by that time the organic fleets have moved on to the next system. It wouldn't take long for the allied fleets to deal with the reapers in that system. This is based on who is leading the attacks and how they do the attacks.

If the organic fleets are able to shutoff the relay, it would make it a lot easier

 

 

Reapers don't need relays or reinforcements to flee. They just FTL into the dark space between stars. Who attacks or how doesn't really matter- the point the Reapers calculate the odds as being too risky, let alone bad, is the point they can make to leave.

 

 

Maybe. It would take them a long time to do that. While that's happening, the organics build up their strength awaiting for them the next time, and may have weapons to match the reapers weapons.

 

The Reapers aren't on a time limit, so 'a long time' is irrelevant. This is a group that waits around tens of thousands of years just because. Not that it would necessarily take long anyways- not only are the Reapers the masters of nano-tech, and manufactories are obviously a thing, but the Reapers have the means to co-opt the galaxy's own production efforts via cyberwar (synthetics) and indoctrination (organics) while also destroying known production centers via hit-and-run, sabotage, or outright coopation.

 

Not only are the organics not going to match the tech gap instantly, it's rather irrelevant so long as the Reapers build the means to destroy the organic basis of production. Planet-killers are totally a thing in the ME universe.