260 réponses à ce sujet

[Tielis]

...because we hate retcons and they can be dead in someone's game.  Or killed in a book or comic or something.  They can be alive in somebody's game, but that doesn't matter.

 

Let's start with the obvious, no matter what BioWare has done in the past, because, you know, one dev said in one interview that they really hate bringing dead characters back.  Please help me out if I've missed a few.

 

The Warden

Alistair

Morrigan

Leliana

Sten

Shale

Dog

Wynne

Zevran

Anders

Loghain

Oghren

Sigrun

Velanna

Nathaniel

Hawke

Fenris

Iron Bull

 

Branka

Cauthrien

Jowan

Avernus

Isolde

Kitty

Bevin

Bella

Berwick

Kaitlyn

Cammen

Gheyna

Zathrian

Amalia

Bhelen

Harrowmont

Ignacio

The Architect

Carver

Bethany

Danarius

Ginnis

Idunna

Javaris

Gascard

Danzig

Bartrand

Esmeral Abernache

Ser Barris

Michel

Fiona

Flissa

Minaeve

Adan

Lysette

Segrit

Abelas

Kieran

Celene

Florianne

Gaspard

Briala

 

Dang, I only got into the K's on the Dragon Age Wiki.  This is too hard.

 

EDIT:  I'm adding in some of the replies I've made further along in the thread, because some folks are (rightly) confused as to what I was trying to do here.

 

My point is that I'm tired of having it both ways.  Morrigan gets stabbed, but she lives.  Abelas gets stabbed, but because some people don't love him as much as Morrigan, he should stay dead.

 

What I would like to see is a way where everyone gets what they want.  Where the choices made in the Keep actually reflect what we get, instead of handwaves or cutting characters out.  I refuse to believe that it is impossible.  They did quite a good job of it in Mass Effect via inserting other characters in empty slots, and I have faith that they can make it work in Dragon Age.

 

What I am suggesting is, for example,

 

If you killed Michel, you get either another chevalier, or you get Imshael wearing Michel's hapless skin like a suit.

 

If you killed Abelas, you get another sentinel, probably one of the ones he led.

 

Both of these options would only require small conversation changes if BioWare wanted to be cheap, but they could turn out to be really compelling choices as they are.  This is what I miss about the old games:  both branches are equally compelling, not just the "right" one, where the "wrong" one gets a codex entry.

[TheBeyond]

You forgot The Mother, The Lost/The Children and good ol Flemeth.

[daveliam]

Yawn.  If you are going to completely disregard people's points and continue to use hyperbole, don't be surprised when people stop taking you seriously.

[Abelas Forever!]

Yavanna is dead too.

[Tielis]

Flemeth and The Mother are always slain.

 

I'm not going to add Yavanna because she has not shown up in a game.

[Tielis]

Yawn.  If you are going to completely disregard people's points and continue to use hyperbole, don't be surprised when people stop taking you seriously.

 

Oh the irony.

[d1ta]

I think Calpernia's fate is kinda ambiguous. She either:
1. Face her old master and leaves
2. Jumps off a cliff to avoid being captured/killed by the inquisitor.

IB and Cole could die too, Blackwall presumed KIA in some endings (Tresspasser)

[Tielis]

I think Calpernia's fate is kinda ambiguous. She either:
1. Face her old master and leaves
2. Jumps off a cliff to avoid being captured/killed by the inquisitor.

IB and Cole could die too, Blackwall presumed KIA in some endings (Tresspasser)

 

Okay, I'll take Calpernia out.

 

IB, yes, that is obvious.  How could Cole die?

[Abelas Forever!]

If Calpernia's fate is ambiguous then Abelas fate is ambiguous as well. One single stab wound and he collapses.

[Tielis]

If Calpernia's fate is ambiguous then Abelas fate is ambiguous as well. One single stab wound and he collapses.

 

Hush, I'm playing devil's advocate here.  (Though this devil happens to be wearing a clown outfit.   )

[Abelas Forever!]

Ok. Abelas stays on the list.

[daveliam]

Ooh, you are so sneaky and clever!  No one can figure out what you are trying to do.

 

Except for the fact that your entire ridiculous reductio ad absurdum is built on a blatant misrepresentation of what people are saying.  No one has said that determinant character "can never ever return".  But because it's easier to argue against that false point than what people are actually saying, I suppose we'll just have to brace for you to continue to bring this argument into multiple threads.

 

Honestly, if you can't use actual facts in your arguments, it's time for me to add you to my ignore list.  I don't deal well with trolls who cry "bully" and then create mocking threads.   

[berelinde]

Segrit can't come back? Preorder cancelled!

 

At this point, it would be fine with me if nobody who appeared in a previous game, novel, comic, or what have you came back, dead or otherwise. If we're going to an all-new area, we should have an all new cast.

[Tielis]

Segrit can't come back? Preorder cancelled!

 

At this point, it would be fine with me if nobody who appeared in a previous game, novel, comic, or what have you came back, dead or otherwise. If we're going to an all-new area, we should have an all new cast.

 

I agree with you, with the caveat that the game be set at least 50 years in the future so we have a reason for nobody to come back.

[Babelas]

Segrit can't come back? Preorder cancelled!

 

At this point, it would be fine with me if nobody who appeared in a previous game, novel, comic, or what have you came back, dead or otherwise. If we're going to an all-new area, we should have an all new cast.

Why you even play Dragon Age then? 

[Tielis]

Why you even play Dragon Age then? 

 

To be fair, a clean slate might allow them to go back to BioWare's original way of doing things, when they were not afraid to let deaths and surprises randomly happen.

 

Nah, it's a pipe dream.  EA will never give up stringing us along.

[MrGDL87]

Corypheus - I don't want to see him again

 

You can add Orsino and Meredith to the list as well.

 

Edit: Add Fiona as well! (I see you already did but it's worth repeating )

[Sable Rhapsody]

To be fair, a clean slate might allow them to go back to BioWare's original way of doing things, when they were not afraid to let deaths and surprises randomly happen.

 

Nah, it's a pipe dream.  EA will never give up stringing us along.

 

You mean DA:O?  Or earlier games, like KOTOR and BG?

 

KOTOR had the benefit of being one installment (or at least, one installment made by BioWare), and BG2 did plenty of handwaving since in theory, you could murder every single companion from BG1.

[Tielis]

Corypheus - I don't want to see him again

 

You can add Orsino and Meredith to the list as well.

 

Edit: Add Fiona as well! (I see you already did but it's worth repeating )

 

Orsino and Meredith both die by default, as does Corypheus.

 

And Fiona's on there!  Do you think I'd forget a character I hate so much?  Though I will fully defend anyone's right to have her back in their game.

[Tielis]

You mean DA:O?  Or earlier games, like KOTOR and BG?

 

KOTOR had the benefit of being one installment (or at least, one installment made by BioWare), and BG2 did plenty of handwaving since in theory, you could murder every single companion from BG1.

 

I was talking about DAO, yes, but I would definitely add the BG games to that list.

 

My point is that the handwaving isn't necessary when you can substitute like they did in ME2.  I believe that player choices should mean something, but they should not punish players that did not make that choice.

[Babelas]

How will Corypheus and the Architect's love fully be explored if Corypheus can't come back??? I need this

[Andromelek]

Wait wait, is this some kind of trolling or somethig?

[d1ta]

Cole could be turned to a demon by corypheus if you didn't do his quest.

[Former_Fiend]

Ok, now you're just being overly dramatic.

[Tielis]

Cole could be turned to a demon by corypheus if you didn't do his quest.

 

Interesting, thank you!  I assume he attacks you and dies, then?