I kinda indifferent about that also because it runs into the possible Kaidan/Ashley situation because of it being a new character also
This is also something I've said earlier in the thread. Ashley and Kaiden had less plot relevance due to their lives being optional. This forced 2 different characters to have the exact same character arc in Mass Effect 2 and 3. I want the Dragon Age devs to avoid that as well.
This is also something I've said earlier in the thread. Ashley and Kaiden had less plot relevance due to their lives being optional. This forced 2 different characters to have the exact same character arc in Mass Effect 2 and 3. I want the Dragon Age devs to avoid that as well.
It was even worse when Ashley had less than Kaidan
That's why I feel returning characters who can die should be reduced to minors roles but not all of them should be just a cameo
It was even worse when Ashley had less than Kaidan
That's why I feel returning characters who can die should be reduced to minors roles but not all of them should be just a cameo
Abelas and Michel can show as as cameos for sure, I agree that much.
Oghren and Anders can't die in view of the player character in Origins and Awakening. I originally wanted to use how Leliana was handled but I missteped by doing so. She really has nothing to do with what I'm actually arguing against but the lesson should still be the same in a certain way.
Yes, devs should avoid bringing dead characters back as companions. That's all I'm trying to say.
I'm not against bringing back possible dead characters as companions because bringing them back could be handled like the situations where you can decide whether you recruit somebody or not but in this case the decision are you able to recruit somebody has been made earlier by your decisions. I actually like this kind of thing because then your earlier decisions has meaning. Of course there can't be that many possible dead characters in one game where this thing could work but as an idea it's very interesting.
Abelas and Michel can show as as cameos for sure, I agree that much.
Characters like Feynriel can even have a side plot of their own as long as it doesn't effect the story in a major way
Abelas I can see in a bigger role (granted it's an antagonist role like Samson/Calpernia 
)
Characters like Feynriel can even have a side plot of their own as long as it doesn't effect the story in a major way
Abelas I can see in a bigger role (granted it's an antagonist role like Samson/Calpernia
I'm not against bringing back possible dead characters as companions because bringing them back could be handled like the situations where you can decide whether you recruit somebody or not but in this case the decision are you able to recruit somebody has been made earlier by your decisions. I actually like this kind of thing because then your earlier decisions has meaning. Of course there can't be that many possible dead characters in one game where this thing could work but as an idea it's very interesting.
This is a problem in itself to past players as well as new players because your automatically locking people out of getting a companion before the game even starts
Especially in a series when every game is a standalone in it's own right
So, if I only ask for Yavana as an advisor you won't bring torches on me?
No, but considering Yavana isn't really confirmed as dead either I wouldn't have an issue with her being a companion.
I'm not against bringing back possible dead characters as companions because bringing them back could be handled like the situations where you can decide whether you recruit somebody or not but in this case the decision are you able to recruit somebody has been made earlier by your decisions. I actually like this kind of thing because then your earlier decisions has meaning. Of course there can't be that many possible dead characters in one game where this thing could work but as an idea it's very interesting.
This was discussed earlier in the thread but the problem with, say, using a Mira/Hanharr type of party member split is word budget. Say we have 9 party members again and out of those 9 Abelas and Michel can be replace by 2 other guys. Your making a budget for 11 characters and party banter combinations as well as major plot discussions. If Bioware can afford that, more power too them, but as it stand I doubt that will come to pass anytime soon.
This is a problem in itself to past players as well as new players because your automatically locking people out of getting a companion before the game even starts
Especially in a series when every game is a standalone in it's own right
Yes. People wouldn't would finally get consequences of their actions.
Modifié par SilentShadows, 04 octobre 2015 - 07:29 .
Yes. People wouldn't finally get consequences of their actions.
Which shouldn't affect who their companions are in the next game
No, but considering Yavana isn't really confirmed as dead either I would have an issue with her being a companion.
This was discussed earlier in the thread but the problem with, say, using a Mira/Hanharr type of party member split is word budget. Say we have 9 party members again and out of those 9 Abelas and Michel can be replace by 2 other guys. Your making a budget for 11 characters and party banter combinations as well as major plot discussions. If Bioware can afford that, more power too them, but as it stand I doubt that will come to pass anytime soon.
I was talking about a situation when nobody will replace those possible dead characters. Then there is no need for a replacement. I have been talking about a replacement earlier because that is also an option when possible dead characters are brought back but like you said then it costs more to bring back possible dead character. However in some cases there might be a need for a replacement and I think this method would have worked quite well with Leliana because you could kill her in DA:O and you needed a spymaster in DA:I.
Which shouldn't affect who their companions are in the next game
Why not?
I was talking about a situation when nobody will replace those possible dead characters. Then there is no need for a replacement. I have been talking about a replacement earlier because that is also an option when possible dead characters are brought back but like you said then it costs more to bring back possible dead character. However in some cases there might be a need for a replacement and I think this method would have worked quite well with Leliana because you could kill her in DA:O and you needed a spymaster in DA:I.
Oh like with Garrus? That's fine with me.
Oh like with Garrus? That's fine with me.
Garrus has never been dead in my playthroughs. But he is just not there? Like IB is not in inquisition when you didn't recruit him or Thane isn't in ME3 if he died in ME2.
Garrus has never been dead in my playthroughs. But he is just not there? Like IB is not in inquisition when you didn't recruit him or Thane isn't in ME3 if he died in ME2.
He isn't there if he died in the suicide mission and Liara stays in the party.
Why not?
I also don't like having my squad determined by a decision I made in a different game potentially 8+ years earlier. If I choose not to recruit someone, that's one thing (although I've never chosen that in Bioware game ever). But to have a missing companion because I chose an option that led to a minor NPCs death in a prior game? Not cool.
^ This
I want that there are surprises. I mean it would be great if the devs would actually sometimes bring a possible dead character back for a big role. There are many ways to do that. Sometimes they could bring that character back so that nobody would replace that character or sometimes somebody can replace that character and maybe sometimes that character didn't actually die. That way you would never know what would happen and I like that. I think it would be pretty boring if we always know that if a character can die then that character never can be in a big role in the future.
I want that there are surprises. I mean it would be great if the devs would actually sometimes bring a possible dead character back for a big role. There are many ways to do that. Sometimes they could bring that character back so that nobody would replace that character or sometimes somebody can replace that character and maybe sometimes that character didn't actually die. That way you would never know what would happen and I like that. I think it would be pretty boring if we always know that if a character can die then that character never can be in a big role in the future.
Mmm...it's a double-edged sword. I don't necessarily mind retconning if it serves an interesting story purpose, but this whole thing about death not sticking makes death as a whole less meaningful. And that takes some teeth out of both player choices, and the overall story.
Mmm...it's a double-edged sword. I don't necessarily mind retconning if it serves an interesting story purpose, but this whole thing about death not sticking makes death as a whole less meaningful. And that takes some teeth out of both player choices, and the overall story.
It depends how the death is handled. If nobody will replace that dead character then it means something that that character died. If somebody else replaces that dead character then it means something that character died. If the possible dead character is brought back using these methods, the death have more meaning than it has now.
It depends how the death is handled. If nobody will replace that dead character then it means something that that character died. If somebody else replaces that dead character then it means something that character died. If the possible dead character is brought back using these methods, the death have more meaning than it has now.
...because we hate retcons and they can be dead in someone's game. Or killed in a book or comic or something. They can be alive in somebody's game, but that doesn't matter.
Let's start with the obvious, no matter what BioWare has done in the past, because, you know, one dev said in one interview that they really hate bringing dead characters back. Please help me out if I've missed a few.
The Warden
Alistair
Morrigan
Leliana
Sten
Shale
Dog
Wynne
Zevran
Anders
Loghain
Oghren
Sigrun
Velanna
Nathaniel
Hawke
Fenris
Iron Bull
Branka
Cauthrien
Jowan
Avernus
Isolde
Kitty
Bevin
Bella
Berwick
Kaitlyn
Cammen
Gheyna
Zathrian
Amalia
Bhelen
Harrowmont
Ignacio
The Architect
Carver
Bethany
Danarius
Ginnis
Idunna
Javaris
Gascard
Danzig
Bartrand
Esmeral Abernache
Ser Barris
Michel
Fiona
Flissa
Minaeve
Adan
Lysette
Segrit
Abelas
Kieran
Celene
Florianne
Gaspard
Briala
Dang, I only got into the K's on the Dragon Age Wiki. This is too hard.
EDIT: I'm adding in some of the replies I've made further along in the thread, because some folks are (rightly) confused as to what I was trying to do here.
My point is that I'm tired of having it both ways. Morrigan gets stabbed, but she lives. Abelas gets stabbed, but because some people don't love him as much as Morrigan, he should stay dead.
What I would like to see is a way where everyone gets what they want. Where the choices made in the Keep actually reflect what we get, instead of handwaves or cutting characters out. I refuse to believe that it is impossible. They did quite a good job of it in Mass Effect via inserting other characters in empty slots, and I have faith that they can make it work in Dragon Age.
What I am suggesting is, for example,
If you killed Michel, you get either another chevalier, or you get Imshael wearing Michel's hapless skin like a suit.
If you killed Abelas, you get another sentinel, probably one of the ones he led.
Both of these options would only require small conversation changes if BioWare wanted to be cheap, but they could turn out to be really compelling choices as they are. This is what I miss about the old games: both branches are equally compelling, not just the "right" one, where the "wrong" one gets a codex entry.
It's a shame that i didn't find this topic earlier,since it is from october but let's analyze this Op character by character
in regard of their death circumstances and if that death was meant to be definitive or not.
1)The Warden is the protagonist of the first installment and can be killed via Ultimate sacrifice,no retcon here aside from the choice made by bioware in regard of DAA for problems related to the save import system,there was no way to use the Orlesian warden and maintain the choices of the warden of DAO without the console commands .
2)AListair is definitely killable in 2 way,the archdemon and by Anora,the nightmare demon may have as well killed him.
Retour en haut
