260 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

 

I also noticed on how the eluvian of WH was still functional ready to be used by the warden to attack Morrigan again,and yet the warden out of the player control:

not only push Morrigan into the mirror instead to hold her away from it (which is absurd) 

but also decided to not use the eluvian to attack her again(which is more absurd).

The warden remain there to look the mirror like a moron after the attack and then leave, instead to go after her to attack her again,if the purpose was to finish her life ,then why leave? (The warden is expert on combat,the HoF know when an opponent is killed or not).

Morrigan did not possess the key to control the eluvians neither she had the strength to resist to another attack,she survived because some writer gave to her full plot armor, not for any reasonable other reason,her opponent was the HoF a character that basically wiped out legendary monsters, not a noob. 

The Warden wouldn't have failed to understand the severity of the injury (after his/her deep understanding of combats),so the HoF was aware that she wasn't finished and yet decided to let her go out of the player control?

Scenarios need to be believable,if Morrigan would had find a way to deactivate that mirror i wouldn't have any problem with her "survival",but this is not the case,no key no control over the eluvians (like Solas/Briala,Ishmael).

 

As i said the mirror of WH wasn't broken but on the contrary ready to be used in that moment ,it can be used by more than one person,  proved in the scenario in which the warden follow her,in this scenario she didn't do  anything,she didn't cast a spell to allow the warden to follow her,they simply crossed the mirror..

 

So now if someone would explain to me as for why her "survival" isn't contrived from a narrative point of view,maybe because i missed something of WH? i saw each scenarios,and in each of them the eluvian remain functional

 

 

The issue there is that the Warden has no idea what's on the other side of that mirror, no idea how to operate the mirror, and no idea if they would be able to make it back if they stepped through to finish the job. These are all reasons not to risk it, especially when the Warden has a pretty good track record of the things they stab staying dead.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Why can't Zevran come back? I love him.

 

Because if Zev came back in the new engine, all silver-foxy and Antivan, all of our monitors would melt from the sheer amount of sexy

[Tamyn]

Only women (and villains) in Dragon Age get to come back from the dead.

[Aren]

Why can't Zevran come back? I love him.

He was in DAII just to let Isabela cheat on hawke,thank you Zevran

[BraveVesperia]

They can come back. Just probably not as companions, because they could only come back in some world states. If you constantly revive dead people, the death loses all meaning. Like if Hawke appeared in DA4, regardless of our choice in the Fade. "Oh, I just beat the Nightmare up and left." It would be a waste of a weighted choice.

 

If they went for conditional companions (based on world state), that seems like an awful lot of work for the devs, and little reason to do it. Sure, they could bring back Abelas/Michel/Barris/insert name here. But they could also have a new ancient elf, chevalier or templar if they wanted one as a companion. If they did that, they could probably tie that person into the plot better too.

[Aren]

The issue there is that the Warden has no idea what's on the other side of that mirror, no idea how to operate the mirror, and no idea if they would be able to make it back if they stepped through to finish the job. These are all reasons not to risk it, especially when the Warden has a pretty good track record of the things they stab staying dead.

 

I find the explanation to be not good enough,this was just plot armor just as it is plot armor her survival against the red lyrium dragon

[Aren]

And apparently to cheat on my warden behind her back, whom he refused to stay in a relationship with in dao unless she was monogamous and dedicated only to him. Too bad my warden does not know of his extracurricular activities or she would hook up with another grey warden and ditch the assassin. Instead she is stuck traveling with him in dai. Reload: Ultimate Sacrifice. Glad he moved on. I'd rather she died than be the elf's fool.

I don't trust Zevran everything that he said,is just a lie meant to put him in a better position,including his romance,does he was truly in love with the Warden or was  just a way to bring her on bed?

[berelinde]

Only women (and villains) in Dragon Age get to come back from the dead.

Sad, but true.

[Andromelek]

Only women (and villains) in Dragon Age get to come back from the dead.

Oghren and Anders are men, sure, I assume you picked Anders as villain.

[Tielis]

Well, I'm glad to see this thread is still going, even though it's still a bit off topic.  These things have lives of their own.  

 

I realize that I should have included my personal idea for how to solve this problem instead of somewhere down in the replies, and I think I will.

[Lady Artifice]

Your solution makes sense, but still seems impractical from a writing standpoint. It seems like an immense resource drain. 

[daveliam]

Your solution makes sense, but still seems impractical from a writing standpoint. It seems like an immense resource drain. 

 

Right, and I keep coming back to the question:  If you can so easily replace Abelas and/or Michel with "Random Ancient Elf #2" or "Random Chevalier #2", perhaps it would be better to develop one character who has greater impact?

[Tielis]

Your solution makes sense, but still seems impractical from a writing standpoint. It seems like an immense resource drain. 

 

Yeah, I know.

 

It's all about the money and not about making a good game.

[Former_Fiend]

Yeah, I know.

 

It's all about the money and not about making a good game.

 

In a world where they had infinite time, resources, and disk space, I'd agree with you.

 

As it stands, even taking money out of the equation there's only so much information they can fit in the game. So much room for audio files, so much room for character models. 

 

Your plan would have half that space be taken up by audio files of dialogue most people would never hear because it came from characters they'd never interact with. Every character would have half as much dialogue as they'd otherwise have. Half as much depth and development.

 

In a perfect world, yeah, I'd love your plan. We don't live in that world.

[Tielis]

In a perfect world, yeah, I'd love your plan. We don't live in that world.

 

And we never will if nobody tries and everyone just rolls over.  

[Sable Rhapsody]

I think here it is shown that he does love her. He is jealously in love with her. Reload: Okay...I love you Zevran...I only want you Zevran...I want us to be together forever Zevran. Phew! Then comes DAII: Hey Isabela let's go over to the bushes and screw, my warden won't mind a little std...I only bring her back the good ones. 

That's actually an import bug.  You can fix it by messing with the worldvault via developer console.  I think there also may have been a mod floating around that fixes the import issue.  Zev's is notoriously buggy, but him sleeping with Izzy should only happen if he's not in a relationship with the Warden.

 

Yeah, I know.

 

It's all about the money and not about making a good game.

 

Um...can't it be about both?

 

Making games is the devs' job.  They need to be able to hold to a budget and a schedule so they can actually ship the product and get paid and feed their families.  It's all very well and good for us to sit here and say, "Well, this situation would be ideal" when we're not the ones who have to figure out all the logistics.

[Tielis]

Um...can't it be about both?

 

Making games is the devs' job.  They need to be able to hold to a budget and a schedule so they can actually ship the product and get paid and feed their families.  It's all very well and good for us to sit here and say, "Well, this situation would be ideal" when we're not the ones who have to figure out all the logistics.

 

 

Well, everyone here seems to think that reaching for the ideal is pointless, since they know already that it's too expensive and not worth it.  Like I said, time machine, you got one?

 

I guess I give the devs more credit than that to come up with a better, more interesting solution than what we already have.

[Former_Fiend]

And we never will if nobody tries and everyone just rolls over.  

 

That's not on Bioware, though. They're limited by the technology. That's on the people making the consoles and the PC's.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well, everyone here seems to think that reaching for the ideal is pointless, since they know already that it's too expensive and not worth it.  Like I said, time machine, you got one?

 

I guess I give the devs more credit than that to come up with a better, more interesting solution than what we already have.

 

It's not that it's pointless.  It's just that it requires compromise  Allocating resources to secondary character dialogue will take it from somewhere else, so then the question becomes one of how much you gain vs. how much you cut.  And you can make it work if you're willing to co-opt existing dialogue.  Solas's romance, for example, mostly piggybacks off of his friendship dialogue with only one scene designed specifically for the romance.  So they were able to squeeze it in under the wire.

[Tielis]

It's not that it's pointless.  It's just that it requires compromise  Allocating resources to secondary character dialogue will take it from somewhere else, so then the question becomes one of how much you gain vs. how much you cut.  And you can gain a decent amount of content if you're willing to co-opt existing dialogue.  Solas's romance, for example, mostly piggybacks off of his friendship dialogue with only one scene designed specifically for the romance.  So they were able to squeeze it in under the wire.

 

Well, there is the fact that they had to learn a new game engine.  Now they don't have to do that.

 

Honestly, I'm really tired of EA calling the shots with eyes like $$ and nothing else.  Did we really need all that multiplayer content just because ME multplayer made so many $?  Did we really need all those empty areas because Skyrim made so many $?

 

In my opinion, they need to tighten up their storytelling, because that's what sets them apart from the other game companies out there.  Trying to be everything to everyone weakens everything.

 

EDIT:  One more thing.  It seems BioWare is going back to their storytelling with SWTOR, though it remains to be seen how good it is.  My fears are that it's just going to be more generic storytelling instead of the class story differences that made it great to begin with.

 

If I'm wrong and it's great, and it does well, then there is hope for the same with DA.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Well, there is the fact that they had to learn a new game engine.  Now they don't have to do that.

 

Honestly, I'm really tired of EA calling the shots with eyes like $$ and nothing else.  Did we really need all that multiplayer content just because ME multplayer made so many $?  Did we really need all those empty areas because Skyrim made so many $?

 

Or maybe the multiplayer and open-world stuff is there because people enjoyed it in those two games, and they wanted to see if it would work in DA:I.

 

I agree that storytelling is BioWare's strong suit, but it's always good to try new things, and there's no reason that exploration and storytelling have to be mutually exclusive.  Some areas definitely felt pointless (look at you, Hissing Wastes  ) but IMO Jaws of Hakkon was an improvement over the base game; all the little sidequests that we got via exploration wove into the Avvar lore, or Ameridan's past, and got tied into the main story of the region.  It worked better with the exploration supporting the story, rather than being a distraction from it.

[Former_Fiend]

You know, for all the hate it gets, I actually liked the Hissing Wastes. Was one of the few areas that had me really going "I want to see this. I want to see what's over that hill, over that ridge". Granted, there wasn't much, but there were some nice things. I liked some of the better dwarven ruins and statues, the colossus, the mountains.

 

Fallowmire. That was the area I hated with a passion. 

[Sable Rhapsody]

You know, for all the hate it gets, I actually liked the Hissing Wastes. Was one of the few areas that had me really going "I want to see this. I want to see what's over that hill, over that ridge". Granted, there wasn't much, but there were some nice things. I liked some of the better dwarven ruins and statues, the colossus, the mountains.

 

Fallowmire. That was the area I hated with a passion. 

 

I liked parts of the Hissing Wastes, and the dwarven lore was great.  I just wish it hadn't be spread out so far with very little in between.

 

With you on the Fallow Mire, though.  If it weren't for Sky Watcher and my stupid lost soldiers, I'd skip it altogether