260 réponses à ce sujet

[Andromelek]

With Yavana, we also have to keep in mind that unlike Abelas, she is guarding the temple by her own (It's unlikely that Flemeth would let something so important to chance), the comics were too short to give her a proper development and when Alistair killed her that smoke rose from her and was later inhaled by her Dragon, which is also addressed as "The Queen of Dragons" being a ritual what she needed to release her fellow, if she would be hopeless to do it, Alistair would be useless anyway, so there wouldn't be a reason to not crush him.

I see rather useless discuss on Calpernia, we like it or not, she's a dev's fav and that gives her a 99.9999% guarantee to come back, even if she would have been blowed up by a nuke.

[Abelas Forever!]

I was strongly against Yavana returning until I was told that she possesses dragons and, right after she was stabbed but was still alive, we see smoke rising from her body and transferring into a dragon.  I still think it's a little questionable, but at least the door is open.  And the pieces are all there already.  If people were making things up, like "What if she was able to possess dragons?" or "What if she happens to have an ability that we've never seen her do before?", then I'd be against her return again.  Maybe I'm not understanding the scene appropriately, though.

 

Calpernia jumps into water.  People survive leaps into water all the time.  There's no reason to make up reasons why she should survive because it's common sense.  Sometimes people die in leaps like that.  Sometimes they don't.  Again, the door is open.  If she leapt off the cliff and hit rocks on the way down and then her body floated away, I'd say that the door would be closed. 

I haven't read the comic books where Yavana is present but this is what wiki says about her:
Note: According to artist Chad Hardin in Dragon Age Library Edition Yavana is indeed dead.[4]
Source: http://dragonage.wik...he_Silent_Grove

So to me it seems that the door is quite closed what comes to Yavana. Although the devs have keys to open these kind of doors but if you don't like magical resurrections then I would assume that you wouldn't like this?

People can also survive from stab wounds. Blood can flow from people's mouths and they can lose their consciousness and still survive. I just don't see that the situation differs so much between Calpernia and Abelas. Besides there can be logical ways to resurrect Abelas if they want to do that.

What comes to leaving doors open. Maybe the devs didn't think they would want to bring back some characters and that's why they didn't leave doors open. Maybe they'll realized too late that they should have left doors open. I just think that they should bring back characters if they think it's worth it even if there isn't a logical way to explain the death of that character and if there is then the better and if there are consequences of killing the character then the better.

[Dabrikishaw]

The Ashley/Kaiden situation in Mass Effect is a perfect illustration of what happens when you try to make people that can die in previous games party members. They're the same character in the sequels, having no unique roles in the story after Virmire and it shows.

[Abelas Forever!]

I liked Kaidan

[Dabrikishaw]

I like Kaiden too, but the point i'm making is he couldn't have a unique role in the narrative of the Mass Effect Trilogy because after a certain point he was optional.

[Andromelek]

I haven't read the comic books where Yavana is present but this is what wiki says about her:
Note: According to artist Chad Hardin in Dragon Age Library Edition Yavana is indeed dead.[4]
Source: http://dragonage.wik...he_Silent_Grove
So to me it seems that the door is quite closed what comes to Yavana. Although the devs have keys to open these kind of doors but if you don't like magical resurrections then I would assume that you wouldn't like this?
People can also survive from stab wounds. Blood can flow from people's mouths and they can lose their consciousness and still survive. I just don't see that the situation differs so much between Calpernia and Abelas. Besides there can be logical ways to resurrect Abelas if they want to do that.
What comes to leaving doors open. Maybe the devs didn't think they would want to bring back some characters and that's why they didn't leave doors open. Maybe they'll realized too late that they should have left doors open. I just think that they should bring back characters if they think it's worth it even if there isn't a logical way to explain the death of that character and if there is then the better and if there are consequences of killing the character then the better.

Being dead is quite different to not having means to come back, all characters that have been discussed here have been dead and revived (excluding Oghren and Morrigan) also, it was the illustrator who wrote that, not Gaider, Gaider even said that we should disregard side notes and comments until see that reflected in a game.

[Abelas Forever!]

I like Kaiden too, but the point i'm making is he couldn't have a unique role in the narrative of the Mass Effect Trilogy because after a certain point he was optional.

To me it doesn't matter whether character has a unique role or not if I like that character.

 

 

Being dead is quite different to not having means to come back, all characters that have been discussed here have been dead and revived (excluding Oghren and Morrigan) also, it was the illustrator who wrote that, not Gaider, Gaider even said that we should disregard side notes and comments until see that reflected in a game.

I wasn't trying to argue should Yavana be brought back or not or is she really dead or not. I was just pointing out to daveliam that the situation with Yavana is not that different than the situation with Abelas. For some reason it seems that daveliam is more willing to accept that Yavana is brought back than Abelas. To me these two cases are very similar. Both characters were "killed" and there are ways to explain their deaths so that those characters really didn't die.

[Dabrikishaw]

To me it doesn't matter whether character has a unique role or not if I like that character.

That line really sums up why this topic was made now that I think about it.

[Andromelek]

I'm curious, a question for those who prefer not having a "dead" companion in the party, of the possibly "dead" characters that have been requested the last days, which would bother you less? Cut off Calpernia from the answer because she likely has a "dev's favorite free pass" guaranteed.

[Abelas Forever!]

I'm curious, a question for those who prefer not having a "dead" companion in the party, of the possibly "dead" characters that have been requested the last days, which would bother you less? Cut off Calpernia from the answer because she likely has a "dev's favorite free pass" guaranteed.

Why cut off Calpernia? I mean does it matter that she might have more changes of being in next DA than the other characters?

[Andromelek]

Why cut off Calpernia? I mean does it matter that she might have more changes of being in next DA than the other characters?

She is the only one under devshood protection, I almost take as a fact that she will return, no matter what.

[Abelas Forever!]

She is the only one under devshood protection, I almost take as a fact that she will return, no matter what.

Maybe. But I was trying to say that does it matter that she is most likely brought back if you are asking opinions from the people? I mean they might still object bringing her back more than some other character even if Calpernia is devs' favourite. Or is this question leading to a suggestion that the character that bothers less people should be brough back ?  I'm interested in hearing why people don't want to see possible "dead" characters as companions and why some of them bothers people less than some others.

[Dabrikishaw]

I'm not sure why my last post was liked.

[Andromelek]

Maybe. But I was trying to say that does it matter that she is most likely brought back if you are asking opinions from the people? I mean they might still object bringing her back more than some other character even if Calpernia is devs' favourite. Or is this question leading to a suggestion that the character that bothers less people should be brough back ?  I'm interested in hearing why people don't want to see possible "dead" characters as companions and why some of them bothers people less than some others.

I kind of have the feeling that being dev's favourite would automatically earn her some points on the community (look at Alistair or Leliana) but you are right, it's their opinion, fine, Calpernia is an answer allowed.

[Tielis]

She is the only one under devshood protection, I almost take as a fact that she will return, no matter what.

 

This is what I hate.  It basically negates all choice in our playthroughs, because if a character has plot armor, then they are coming back in a big way no matter what.

 

So basically, with the way it is now, if you see any character that can't be killed or just magically disappears by jumping into a ditch or whatever, you know they are coming back in a big way because a dev has given them a lollipop.

 

How is this good for the overall story?  Like I said, currently OUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER.

[Andromelek]

This is what I hate.  It basically negates all choice in our playthroughs, because if a character has plot armor, then they are coming back in a big way no matter what.
 
So basically, with the way it is now, if you see any character that can't be killed or just magically disappears by jumping into a ditch or whatever, you know they are coming back in a big way because a dev has given them a lollipop.
 
How is this good for the overall story?  Like I said, currently OUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER.

I would wish that this time the revived character is someone with a lollipop given by the community rather than devs.

[AresKeith]

This is what I hate.  It basically negates all choice in our playthroughs, because if a character has plot armor, then they are coming back in a big way no matter what.

 

So basically, with the way it is now, if you see any character that can't be killed or just magically disappears by jumping into a ditch or whatever, you know they are coming back in a big way because a dev has given them a lollipop.

 

How is this good for the overall story?  Like I said, currently OUR CHOICES DON'T MATTER.

 

Really what choice is being negated by Calpernia's ambiguous fate? 

[AresKeith]

 

People tend too often to underestimate the power behind the pray of Mythal.

Flemeth was killed in body in DAO,and yet Merril with her knowledge about an ancient elven pray to Mythal resurrected her

(i don't even know who taught to her,maybe Flemeth)

Same here,before to die Abelas said something to Mythal,and then his soul escaped from his body instead to reach the fade like what happen in all normal cases.

 

 

Flemeth and Mythal were basically one, I don't think the same rule applies in Abelas' case when he just worships her

[Ryzaki]

Honestly while I'm interested in Calpernia I'm mostly meh on other returning people. I rather skip forward a few decades and get a all new cast because BW and returning characters tends to be meh.

[MadMadCarl]

I was strongly against Yavana returning until I was told that she possesses dragons and, right after she was stabbed but was still alive, we see smoke rising from her body and transferring into a dragon.  I still think it's a little questionable, but at least the door is open.  And the pieces are all there already.  If people were making things up, like "What if she was able to possess dragons?" or "What if she happens to have an ability that we've never seen her do before?", then I'd be against her return again.  Maybe I'm not understanding the scene appropriately, though.

 

Calpernia jumps into water.  People survive leaps into water all the time.  There's no reason to make up reasons why she should survive because it's common sense.  Sometimes people die in leaps like that.  Sometimes they don't.  Again, the door is open.  If she leapt off the cliff and hit rocks on the way down and then her body floated away, I'd say that the door would be closed. 

Fair enough, indeed we never knew what was that smoke, so could be an open gate.

[MadMadCarl]

Maybe. But I was trying to say that does it matter that she is most likely brought back if you are asking opinions from the people? I mean they might still object bringing her back more than some other character even if Calpernia is devs' favourite. Or is this question leading to a suggestion that the character that bothers less people should be brough back ?  I'm interested in hearing why people don't want to see possible "dead" characters as companions and why some of them bothers people less than some others.

Indeed im less against abelas or yavana returning: I hate alicrap, but the ways to kill him were amoral to me, and i didnt want to kill abelas, i just was tired of puzzles, i dont like that being merciful on someone or not being enough smart has to lead to someone has to be killed, but i completed under her skin quest, so if i can choose the option to fight calpernia is because  i want to kill her, not something incidental that i didnt wanted.

[daveliam]

@Andromelek

 

I'm not sure which characters we are talking about with regard to your question about who I'd like to see back as a companion.  Out of the ones that we've discussed most (Abelas, Calpernia, and Yavana), I'd most like to see Calpernia or Yavana for all of the reasons that I've mentioned before.  Again, I'm not against Abelas as a character, just the fact that he's definitively dead in many playthroughs.  Yavana is more questionable, but I can see how the door is open for her.  Calpernia seems like the easiest since she's never actually confirmed dead and you don't even see her die. 

 

Now, all that being said, I'm not really a fan of any of the characters, so I would be fine with none of them ever coming back.

[Andromelek]

@Andromelek
 
I'm not sure which characters we are talking about with regard to your question about who I'd like to see back as a companion.  Out of the ones that we've discussed most (Abelas, Calpernia, and Yavana), I'd most like to see Calpernia or Yavana for all of the reasons that I've mentioned before.  Again, I'm not against Abelas as a character, just the fact that he's definitively dead in many playthroughs.  Yavana is more questionable, but I can see how the door is open for her.  Calpernia seems like the easiest since she's never actually confirmed dead and you don't even see her die. 
 
Now, all that being said, I'm not really a fan of any of the characters, so I would be fine with none of them ever coming back.

I was counting Feynriel and Michel de Chevin as well.

[daveliam]

Can Feynriel be killed?  I thought the only options were Tranquil or not.  Michel falls into the Abelas category for me.  You can see him die in the game.  Now, if a spirit wore his dead body, then that's a different thing.  It would be the "Choice Spirit" who's a companion and not Michel.  I wouldn't be thrilled about that, but I can understand it. 

 

So here's my preference:

 

Feynriel > Calpernia > Choice Spirit wearing Michel's dead body > Yavana > Abelas/Michel

[AresKeith]

@Andromelek

 

I'm not sure which characters we are talking about with regard to your question about who I'd like to see back as a companion.  Out of the ones that we've discussed most (Abelas, Calpernia, and Yavana), I'd most like to see Calpernia or Yavana for all of the reasons that I've mentioned before.  Again, I'm not against Abelas as a character, just the fact that he's definitively dead in many playthroughs.  Yavana is more questionable, but I can see how the door is open for her.  Calpernia seems like the easiest since she's never actually confirmed dead and you don't even see her die. 

 

Now, all that being said, I'm not really a fan of any of the characters, so I would be fine with none of them ever coming back.

 

Heretic