25 réponses à ce sujet

[actionhero112]

In general, why is there lyrium in the fade to begin with.

 

Does that imply that Titans exist in fade?

 

I know there has been discussions on this topic before, but after the revelations of the descent, I want to hear other peoples thoughts on it.

 

 

[Just My Moniker]

[thats1evildude]

Lyrium exists simultaneously in the real world and the Fade. Logically, that means red lyrium also extends into the Fade.

 

"Why does regular lyrium extend itself into the Fade?" I dunno. Something something magic something something. See above.

[ModernAcademic]

The Fade is an imperfect reflection of the material world. Nothing you see there is real.

 

The red lyrium in there is not real lyrium. It may just be a spiritual copy of the red lyrium in Thedas.

[Dabrikishaw]

I think the implication is that the Fade itself is infected with the Blight.

[Heimdall]

Lyrium extends into the Fade. Logically, that means red lyrium also extends into the Fade.

No, Justice says the lyrium we see in the Fade is just the reflection of lyrium spirits see in mortal dreams, its not real lyrium.

 

The same is probably true of the red lyrium we see.

[thats1evildude]

You'll have to point out the specific dialogue here he says that, Heimdall. All I recall him saying on the subject is that lyrium sings in the mortal world.

[Heimdall]

You'll have to point out the specific dialogue here he says that, Heimdall. All I recall him saying on the subject is that lyrium sings in the mortal world.

The full line is, "The version of lyrium that mortals dream of in the Fade... It is not the same.  Here, it sings."  See 4:40

 

[actionhero112]

The full line is, "The version of lyrium that mortals dream of in the Fade... It is not the same.  Here, it sings."  See 4:40

 

cut for size

Yeah but when you actually enter the fade, and walk around in it, you see actual red lyrium. 

 

I mean in here lies the abyss, you do actually enter the fade and see it as it really is. Doesn't that imply that the red lyrium you see there is real?

[DanAxe]

Pure speculation:

 

The red lyrium we see in the fade might not be a reflection, it could actually be real red lyrium. Since Trespasser we know that before the creation of the veil, fade and physical world were one and the same. We also know red lyrium is not something new, it has existed for a very long time (the thaig where Hawke founds red lyrium is so old that even dwarves didnt know about it), so we can assume red lyrium was already around before the veil. When the veil separated physical and fade, it makes sense that red lyrium would be present in both sides.

[Heimdall]

Yeah but when you actually enter the fade, and walk around in it, you see actual red lyrium. 

 

I mean in here lies the abyss, you do actually enter the fade and see it as it really is. Doesn't that imply that the red lyrium you see there is real?

You also see bookcases, beds, Avvar statues, several eluvians, a dinner table complete with chairs and silverware perpendicular to the ground, a graveyard of our companion's greatest fears, amongst other things.

 

None of that is real, it was created by dreaming mortals or spirits.

 

Then again, red lyrium breaks a lot of rules, so who knows?

[actionhero112]

You also see bookcases, beds, Avvar statues, several eluvians, a dinner table complete with chairs and silverware perpendicular to the ground, amongst other things.

 

None of that is really there.

 

 

Why can't it be? If you bring a dorian into the fade with you in here lies the abyss, he says you're seeing it as it is. The physical aspect of the fade. 

[DanAxe]

You also see bookcases, beds, Avvar statues, several eluvians, a dinner table complete with chairs and silverware perpendicular to the ground, a graveyard of our companion's greatest fears, amongst other things.

 

None of that is real, it was created by dreaming mortals or spirits.

 

Then again, red lyrium breaks a lot of rules, so who knows?

 

It could be real. When you go in the fade while dreaming, it reacts to you. When you go in physically it doesnt. You see whats really there, or at least what was left there after the veil formation. As for the graveyards that are directly related to the Inquisitor, I dont think it's there because of the Inquisitor's presence, its there because the Nightmare demon put it there for you to see and be afraid.

[Heimdall]

It could be real. When you go in the fade while dreaming, it reacts to you. When you go in physically it doesnt. You see whats really there, or at least what was left there after the veil formation. As for the graveyards that are directly related to the Inquisitor, I dont think it's there because of the Inquisitor's presence, its there because the Nightmare demon put it there for you to see and be afraid.

In Origins, lyrium deposits reacted to you in both the Fade and the Deep Roads.

 

Well, that's my point, the Nightmare created the graveyard.  And considering how his best pal Cory has been spreading terror with red lyrium, it very well could have put those there too.  When we enter the Fade through the eluvian at Skyhold, the visible red lyrium can be explained by the dreams of the Inquisition members, who probably have nightmares about the stuff half the time.

[Heimdall]

Why can't it be? If you bring a dorian into the fade with you in here lies the abyss, he says you're seeing it as it is. The physical aspect of the fade. 

All those things were created by spirits, reflections of the real world.  Or can you explain how all those objects got into the Fade and started defying gravity?

[actionhero112]

All those things were created by spirits, reflections of the real world.  Or can you explain how all those objects got into the Fade and started defying gravity?

 

It's the fade and isn't restricted by normal conventional physics?

 

Doesn't mean the objects you see aren't real though. 

[MrMrPendragon]

I don't think those were real lyrium. Real lyrium may contain magic, or is connected to the fade, but it's not actually in the Fade - as in you can't mine it.

 

Justice didn't even know about lyrium or the song it makes until after he made the trip to the living world.

[Heimdall]

It's the fade and isn't restricted by normal conventional physics?

 

Doesn't mean the objects you see aren't real though. 

So explain how, when getting to the Fade physically requires such astronomical power or the Anchor, a dining set found its way there?

 

Not to mention all the notes we find that are clearly fears that have been manifested physically.  Do I need to bring up the Graveyard of our companion's fears?  These things are fabrications generated by spirits.

 

You can't assume that any object you see there is anything else.

[actionhero112]

So explain how, when getting to the Fade physically requires such astronomical power or the Anchor, a dining set found its way there?

 

Not to mention all the notes we find that are clearly fears that have been manifested physically.  Do I need to bring up the Graveyard of our companion's fears?  These things are fabrications generated by spirits.

 

You can't assume that any object you see there is anything else.

 

I mean Spirits and Demons are magical creatures and they have information about our world and our thoughts through dreams.

 

Is it that much of a stretch to say they could recreate what they see with magic?

 

We know red lyrium is alive and it thinks(albeit in a primitive way but more so than beasts), but it isn't represented as a spirit in the fade. It's an actual block of crystal. I think that's fascinating. 

[ModernAcademic]

So explain how, when getting to the Fade physically requires such astronomical power or the Anchor, a dining set found its way there?

 

Because Solas created a physical impediment to access the Fade, powerful enough to stop God-like mages from leaving the realm of dreams.

 

And it is called...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...the Veil.

[Heimdall]

I mean Spirits and Demons are magical creatures and they have information about our world and our thoughts through dreams.

 

Is it that much of a stretch to say they could recreate what they see with magic?

 

We know red lyrium is alive and it thinks(albeit in a primitive way but more so than beasts), but it isn't represented as a spirit in the fade. It's an actual block of crystal. I think that's fascinating. 

They could, that's exactly what I'm saying, they created those things.  They are constructs of the Fade made in mimicry of what they see in dreams.

 

Red Lyrium and normal Lyrium are both alive and both sing songs spirits can hear in their presence, but Justice tells us normal Lyrium only exists in the Fade because spirits copy what they see from mortal dreams.  It isn't really lyrium, but an imitation.  That's why he was surprised when he heard Lyrium sing in the physical world.  Mortals couldn't hear it so lyrium in the Fade doesn't sing.  From this we can assume that normal lyrium doesn't dream itself into the Fade.  Avernus tells us that the Blight and the Fade are completely alien to one another, they have no connection.  So it doesn't make sense that adding Blight to Lyrium would somehow connect it to the Fade.

 

Red Lyrium does give people nightmares though, hence why it would feature heavily in that creature's realm.

[In Exile]

In general, why is there lyrium in the fade to begin with.

 

Does that imply that Titans exist in fade?

 

I know there has been discussions on this topic before, but after the revelations of the descent, I want to hear other peoples thoughts on it.

 

The "lyrium" we saw in DA:O was a bit of a weird gameplay mechanic. It wasn't supposed to (at least initially) be lyrium. In general, the DA:O Fade didn't quite line up with the lore; neither did the DA2 Fade. 

 

In DA:I, we are in the Fade physically. When we see red lyrium, it's because it was there. But DA:I also (very strongly) suggests that what we see as the "Fade" - the actual place - is another elvhen pocket dimension (ala the Crossroads, but where Solas stuck the "Fade" part of the world when he created the Veil). 

 

So, to put it differently, what it implies is that the Fade - the physical Fade - is was once a real place, and the floating rocks we see are the physical remnants of that place. 

[In Exile]

So explain how, when getting to the Fade physically requires such astronomical power or the Anchor, a dining set found its way there?

 

Not to mention all the notes we find that are clearly fears that have been manifested physically.  Do I need to bring up the Graveyard of our companion's fears?  These things are fabrications generated by spirits.

 

You can't assume that any object you see there is anything else.

 

The Fade we see in DA:I isn't the Fade we see in DA:O or DA2. The fact that it's the "physical" Fade doesn't mean magic works the same there as it would in the other side of the Veil - remember, Solas mucked things up when he created the Veil, and (among other things) managed to really nerf magic. 

For all we know, creating dinning sets was something mages could have done before Solas created the Veil, which is why demons can create a bunch of them. 

[TraiHarder]

its just a reflection of the real world. Same question could be asked about why we see a table or a bed or anything in the fade. Not to add that we were in the home of a nightmare demon who feeds on that of what people fear an red lyrium was a huge thing people feared at the time.

[renfrees]

The Fade we see in DA:I isn't the Fade we see in DA:O or DA2. The fact that it's the "physical" Fade doesn't mean magic works the same there as it would in the other side of the Veil - remember, Solas mucked things up when he created the Veil, and (among other things) managed to really nerf magic. 

For all we know, creating dinning sets was something mages could have done before Solas created the Veil, which is why demons can create a bunch of them. 

What about "Fears of the Dreamers" quest, where one of them is fear of the Blight? There was no Blight in the time of Elvhenan as far as we know.

 

Edit: also various notes related to modern era, such as fears of templars and apostates, one specifically mentioning Tevinter. Notes from Corypheus' servants and followers of the Old Gods. Doubt all those existed in pre-Veil period.