314 réponses à ce sujet

[DanAxe]

Arlathan?

 

I mean, many people thought that to be the case even before Inquisition. But now that we know the fade and physical world used to be the same before the veil formation, it makes sense that Arlathan stayed on the fade "side" of things?

 

Also the fact that the Black City is at the "center" of the fade, staying the same distance from where you are, wherever you are, kinda raises the suspicion that the black city is the place from where the fade and physical world were separated. So Solas probably cast the spell to form the veil from Arlathan, making the city the "center" of the fade.

 

Could be totally wrong. Thoughts?

[Heimdall]

I don't think so.  Arlathan still existed in the physical world long after the elves started aging.  It was only destroyed centuries later when the Tevinter Imperium sunk it and there's no indication of the city ever not being there as yet.

[solomon.kosin]

As far as I know Solas created the veil in Skyhold. There are some codexes which imply that but it is not stated clearly. Besides, Skyhold belonged to Solas once so why not.

But i agree that Arlathan could be Black City and I will be surprised if it is turns out otherwise

[myahele]

I am more of the opinion that the Arlathan that was sunken by the Tevinter was not the true Arlathan, but merely a newish city that the post-veil Elves built and chose to call it (new) Arlathan in memory of the original Arlathan that was lost.

[Heimdall]

I am more of the opinion that the Arlathan that was sunken by the Tevinter was not the true Arlathan, but merely a newish city that the post-veil Elves built and chose to call it (new) Arlathan in memory of the original Arlathan that was lost.

That sounds something that would be a retcon to me.

 

I don't think the Black City has anything to do with the elves.

[Absafraginlootly]

We know that the library wasn't the only elvhen location lost/torn apart and that provides a viable explanation for the black city.

 

It could still have a completely different explanation though. We won't know until we know.

[Absafraginlootly]

I am more of the opinion that the Arlathan that was sunken by the Tevinter was not the true Arlathan, but merely a newish city that the post-veil Elves built and chose to call it (new) Arlathan in memory of the original Arlathan that was lost.

 

Alternately it was the parts of Arlathan that remained in the physical world and the black city is the part that ended up on the other side of the veil. 

 

Or the black city could still be a lost elven something, but not Arlathan.

[Heimdall]

We know that the library wasn't the only elvhen location lost/torn apart and that provides a viable explanation for the black city.

 

It could still have a completely different explanation though. We won't know until we know.

It doesn't quite seem to fit though.  The Library and the Crossroads are separate dimensions from the Fade, if related.  That's what the elves did, create pocket dimensions.  They didn't actually build in the Fade, to our knowledge.  In fact, creating the Veil separated these places from the Fade, that's what caused them to fall apart.  It doesn't make sense that falling apart because they got severed from the Fade could land it in the Fade

 

If the elves built the Golden City, additional explanation is required.

[MrMrPendragon]

I don't think the Black City is even connected to the ancient elves. The Black City is connected to the taint. Avernus says that all the answers about the powers in the taint are there.

 

And it would SUCK, hard, if the taint was connected to the ancient elves. That would basically mean that everything wrong in Thedas right now has some ancient elf behind it.

 

 

Why is the Veil there? Ancient Elves

Why are there darkspawn? Ancient Elves

Why are there red lyrium? Ancient Elves, well Titans too but mostly ancient elves.

Why are there Archdemons? Ancient Elves

 

 

I'm not saying it was Ancient Elves

 

but it was Ancient Elves...

[myahele]

Unless we know who the Evanuris fought in that great war that gave them their legends, I'll say everything can be explained due to elves

[DanAxe]

I don't think so.  Arlathan still existed in the physical world long after the elves started aging.  It was only destroyed centuries later when the Tevinter Imperium sunk it and there's no indication of the city ever not being there as yet.

 

I need to get my head around the dates Or i'll be thinking mistakes like this over and over again.

 

But I still think there is a connection between Black City and Arlathan. Before the veil, since there wasnt a distinction between fade and physical world, both the Black City and Arlathan would then have to co-exist. So why doesnt elven lore talk about the black city as much as tevinter lore (again could be wrong)? Wouldnt the Evanuris in their pride take offense to a city such as the Black/Golden City co-existing with Arlathan? Could it have been a Golden City back then that turned to Black exactly because of something the Evanuris did? Cory does say that when the magisters got to the Golden City it was already Black.... So many questions... I guess since we are still half way thru the story it just makes sense to have all this in the mist...

[DanAxe]

Unless we know who the Evanuris fought in that great war that gave them their legends, I'll say everything can be explained due to elves

 

Ye maybe that great war was against the Golden City, and because of the defeat somehow got to be the Black City. It was winning that war, as its Generals, that they ended up becoming "gods" later on.

 

Maybe the elves engineered the Blight and used it to attack the Golden city? Then realized what they done and sealed it. And then Cory and his merryband came and unleashed the blight.

[Heimdall]

I need to get my head around the dates Or i'll be thinking mistakes like this over and over again.

 

But I still think there is a connection between Black City and Arlathan. Before the veil, since there wasnt a distinction between fade and physical world, both the Black City and Arlathan would then have to co-exist. So why doesnt elven lore talk about the black city as much as tevinter lore (again could be wrong)? Wouldnt the Evanuris in their pride take offense to a city such as the Black/Golden City co-existing with Arlathan? Could it have been a Golden City back then that turned to Black exactly because of something the Evanuris did? Cory does say that when the magisters got to the Golden City it was already Black.... So many questions... I guess since we are still half way thru the story it just makes sense to have all this in the mist...

Correction, there was a distinction.  The Fade was very much a separate place, but passing between them was effortless for spirits and elves could navigate the Fade in dreams just as easily.  I don't think the elves went there physically, they didn't build there and we have no evidence of them doing so.  The Crossroads and the library were pocket dimensions created by the elves.  Severing these places from the Fade destroyed them, as I explained in a post up, so it doesn't make sense that one such place could end up in the Fade itself unless it was something very different from elven creations we've seen.

 

Gaider confirmed that the City was Golden prior to the First Blight, Tevinter records apparently say they observed the city to be golden at that time.  If the Blight was there, it was contained.  Maybe the Evanuris understood something about the City that we don't, I wouldn't presume much about their motivations.  We've still only got fragments of ancient elven lore that are either very general or very specific, we only know that the City wasn't of overriding importance to them, if it existed at the time.

[leaguer of one]

I don't think so.  Arlathan still existed in the physical world long after the elves started aging.  It was only destroyed centuries later when the Tevinter Imperium sunk it and there's no indication of the city ever not being there as yet.

Part of it did. That does not mean part of it was not in the fade. One part of the mortal, one part for the gods.

[Ashagar]

We know that the golden city was indeed golden before the first blight, even Corypheus ranted about walking the golden halls when he fought the inquisitor. We also know it had a empty throne both from the chant and corpyheus's own words. Also I am inclined to believe Solas in that the golden city/ the black city has nothing to do with the elves which makes me think it really was connected in some way to the maker or it was connected to the forgotten ones and the Neromenians and the later Tevinter imperium simply assumed that it was connected to their creator deity.

[ModernAcademic]

Maybe it's a part of Arlathan. One that became unnaccessible after Solas did his trick.

[Heimdall]

Part of it did. That does not mean part of it was not in the fade. One part of the mortal, one part for the gods.

The elves didn't build in the Fade though, we've only ever seen them build in pocket dimensions that crumbled because they are severed from the Fade.

 

So this would be something we've never seen before at all if you're right.

[leaguer of one]

The elves didn't build in the Fade though, we've only ever seen them build in pocket dimensions that crumbled because they are severed from the Fade.

 

So this would be something we've never seen before at all if you're right.

Yes they did.

*point to the shatter Library. 

 

Cole point out it's the fade. And the crossroad is a pocket in the fade.

[Heimdall]

Yes they did.

*point to the shatter Library. 

 

Cole point out it's the fade. And the crossroad is a pocket in the fade.

Yes, a pocket dimension, not quite the Fade, separated, then severed because of the Veil.  That's why the library is falling apart, because it depended on the Fade's magic to exist.  Now that magic is gone because it is no longer connected to the Fade.  Connected, not within.

 

It's not the Fade.  It's related, connected, but its not the Fade.

[leaguer of one]

Yes, a pocket dimension, not quite the Fade, separated, then severed because of the Veil.  That's why the library is falling apart, because it depended on the Fade's magic to exist.  Now that magic is gone because it is no longer connected to the Fade.  Connected, not within.

 

It's not the Fade.  It's related, connected, but its not the Fade.

Cole literally says it part of the fade.

[Heimdall]

Cole literally says it part of the fade.

Then its part of the Fade separated by the elves so they could build in it, because the entire reason for it falling apart is that it got separated from the magic of the Fade by the Veil.

 

That wouldn't make any lick of sense of it was still part of the Fade.

 

So either Cole really said it was like the Fade or the Fade but different or you're taking him too literally.

[leaguer of one]

Then its part of the Fade separated by the elves so they could build in it, because the entire reason for it falling apart is that it got separated from the magic of the Fade by the Veil.

 

That wouldn't make any lick of sense of it was still part of the Fade.

 

So either Cole really said it was like the Fade or the Fade but different or you're taking him too literally.

That's still in the fade. Remember this was build at the time the waking world and the fade were one and the same. Like Hydrogen and oxygen is with water. Not 2 different place but one in the same.

 

It make 100% sense they can build things in the fade if the fade is part of the world like air is ours.

[BansheeOwnage]

 

Also the fact that the Black City is at the "center" of the fade, staying the same distance from where you are, wherever you are, kinda raises the suspicion that the black city is the place from where the fade and physical world were separated. So Solas probably cast the spell to form the veil from Arlathan, making the city the "center" of the fade.

I think the Black City is only equidistant if you're dreaming and you could, in theory, approach it if you're there physically. Solas comments on how close the Black City is when you are in the fade, and you are the first people to go there physically since Corypheus and friends. And those two groups may be the only people to have done so since the veil was created. Plus, it kind of makes sense that you could approach it if you're physically in the fade, otherwise it would be very unlikely the Sidereal Magisters could have gotten to it in the first place.

 

That sounds something that would be a retcon to me.

 

I don't think the Black City has anything to do with the elves.

Well, it obviously does, since it's where the Evanuris are sealed.

[In Exile]

Arlathan?

 

I mean, many people thought that to be the case even before Inquisition. But now that we know the fade and physical world used to be the same before the veil formation, it makes sense that Arlathan stayed on the fade "side" of things?

 

Also the fact that the Black City is at the "center" of the fade, staying the same distance from where you are, wherever you are, kinda raises the suspicion that the black city is the place from where the fade and physical world were separated. So Solas probably cast the spell to form the veil from Arlathan, making the city the "center" of the fade.

 

Could be totally wrong. Thoughts?

 

What Trespasser strongly suggests - along with DA:I itself - is that the elves society, and their cities, weren't all based on what we think of as "Thedas", i.e., the actual continent. The elvhen had tons of pocket dimensions. While Solas might have created the Veil, we aren't told he created an actual physical "space" to stuff the Fade part of the world. Smart money is on Solas just using a space that already existed to stuff in the "Fade", which seems to really be a by-product of whatever he planned to do to "trap" the Evanuris.

[In Exile]

The elves didn't build in the Fade though, we've only ever seen them build in pocket dimensions that crumbled because they are severed from the Fade.

 

So this would be something we've never seen before at all if you're right.

 

The elves build pocket dimensions. The "Fade" wasn't a place - Solas makes that clear in Haven, when you first speak with him. The implication is that Solas stuffed what the Fade "was" into a pocket dimension, and otherwise wrecked everything that depended on the "Fade" being the way it originally "was". What Solas likely did is take the thing that is the "Fade" - that things are connected to - and stuffed it all in one place. That's the "splitting in two" that we learn about in the library.