314 réponses à ce sujet

[ModernAcademic]

I don't see anything that wasn't or couldn't be a recent addition.

 

Check the back wall of the stables, where Blackwall hangs around, for example.

 

There's a rustic elven painting there.

[Samahl na Revas]

My theory:

 

Arlathan, seat of the sun god, Elgar'nan - sun god, city paved with gold = Golden City.

 

It turned black because Andruil brought the taint back from the void. That's also what started some of the warring between them all. There's much Solas hasn't told us about the details of that time. There's still much room for speculation.

 

When Fen'Harel created the veil, as he locked away the Evanuris he also locked away their seats of power, or at the very least Elgar'nan's, since he was top dog. That it, and they, were already tainted only gave more reason to do this. What if he could find a cure for the taint? What if he could cure them of their rage and one day bring them back? That's what he wants to do now. "I have a plan."

 

The Magisters didn't initiate the taint. It was already here, just locked underground. The Magisters became tainted when they walked the halls of Arlathan. They remained sentient because of the magic involved.

 

Elgar'nan has been trying to convince people to come and free him for a very, very long time. Sometimes he nearly succeeds. Sometimes he doesn't.

 

[...]

 

Don't blindly take for granted what you read. The game makes it abundantly clear that histories are rewritten and re-interpreted to fit a narrative, a dogma, or an ideology whenever someone has the power to do so. When the Chant says that the Magisters brought back the taint, don't assume that to be true. Remember the stories of Andruil bringing back weapons from the void, and slowly going mad. Remember the ways in which the Chant has been altered over the years to suit Drakon's ideals (Shartan, anyone?). Remember how the histories the Dalish passed down for generations only had slivers of truth in them, and in fact the truth was beyond what they could have imagined. Until the game states something categorically (e.g. we know there was a 5th blight; we know Celene's power was threatened; we know Isabela ran away with a book and Anders blew up a Chantry), don't assume it happened. Maybe what you saw was red, but what happened was green.

Why do you sound like Cassandra? Are you purposely writing as she does? What I mean is, you present an idea then define it, that is Cassandra in every manner. Forcibly, I hear her voice when I read your every word. You're doing it on purpose, her voice as she would of spoken them lingers in the structure of every sentence as if carefully placed there to dream. 

 

Either way, we can agree on one thing. One should not take for granted what they read. I like your theory, but, there is one discrepancy I was hoping you could attend. And when I say discrepancy I do not mean an offense, but more so a bitter taste. You say "Elgar'nan has been trying to convince people to come and free him", but the text say Dumat in the earliest accounts taught blood magic to an Archon. How do you reconcile this difference?

[leaguer of one]

Why do you sound like Cassandra? Are you purposely writing as she does? What I mean is, you present an idea then define it, that is Cassandra in every manner. Forcibly, I hear her voice when I read your every word. You're doing it on purpose, her voice as she would of spoken them lingers in the structure of every sentence as if carefully placed there to dream. 

 

Either way, we can agree on one thing. One should not take for granted what they read. I like your theory, but, there is one discrepancy I was hoping you could attend. And when I say discrepancy I do not mean an offense, but more so a bitter taste. You say "Elgar'nan has been trying to convince people to come and free him", but the text say Dumat in the earliest accounts taught blood magic to an Archon. How do you reconcile this difference?

You know how we now call Mythal Flemeth now...

 

Also,It a bit tricky on that. because we don't know what full happen. It could of been a trick or a forgotten one trying to get  out.

[DanAxe]

 

 

My question is are the Old Gods even real? I mean, the old priests of Tevinter heard some voices from the Fade/Golden City, they were given some minor gifts, and got the “Come to the GoldenCity, we have cookies” message.

 

 

 

 

 

You sir, just cracked the entirety of Dragon Age Lore!!

 

It's them cookies!!!!

 

Cory was promised Cookies, when he saw there was no cookies, he went berserk!! And with every right to!!

 

Could them be the cookies Sera has on the roof of the tavern?? And when Cory got to the Golden City for them cookies, he only found crumbs positioned to say: Andruil was here first. Void-y arrow in your face coryfish!

 

That would mean those cookies are freaking ancient!!! Next playthrough I'm not being friends with Sera, she will try to make me eat those blighted cookies!

 

Seriously tho, great post made me laugh a couple times.

[Andreas Amell]

Has anybody suggested the Black City is an alien space ship with a mass drive? 

[Ashagar]

 

My question is are the Old Gods even real? I mean, the old priests of Tevinter heard some voices from the Fade/Golden City, they were given some minor gifts, and got the “Come to the GoldenCity, we have cookies” message.

 

 

 

Well the old gods were active for quite some time before they went silent, if I read the timeline right from when they lured the Tevinter from worshiping the maker to merely acknowledging him and worshiping them the old gods were active and answering their priests for several thousand years before they went silent.
 

Odd fact the grey wardens know where all the old gods are imprisoned but can't reach thembecause of all the dark spawn and how deep the prisons are.

[Ieldra]

I don't think the Black City has anything to do with the elves.

I do. It's the place where Solas imprisoned the Evanuris. The Evanuris created the Blight in order to assume direct control ™ of everyone. I think a world full of Blighted people controlled by a cabal of Evanuris would be enough to make Solas take some drastic steps.

[Almostfaceman]

I do. It's the place where Solas imprisoned the Evanuris. The Evanuris created the Blight in order to assume direct control ™ of everyone. I think a world full of Blighted people controlled by a cabal of Evanuris would be enough to make Solas take some drastic steps.

 

I'm curious as to why something perhaps designed for control is so... cancerous. So.. blighty . Seems an odd way for a control spell to go wrong. Not really arguing, just chewing over the possibility you bring up. 

[Ieldra]

I'm curious as to why something perhaps designed for control is so... cancerous. So.. blighty . Seems an odd way for a control spell to go wrong. Not really arguing, just chewing over the possibility you bring up. 

The hypothesis I've built on is "The effect of the Blight which makes infected people susceptible to a mental influence is not an accident". We know from Corypheus: "We discovered the darkness. We claimed it as our own, let it permeate our being" (Calpernia's memory crystals). Why would they do that, if not to gain some kind of power - and which power *does* the Blight have that would be very attractive to power-hungry mage? Mind control on the population level.

 

From here to there: When the Seven arrived at the Black City, the Blight was already there and they partook of it, but whence did it come? There are various ways to explain it, but if it was created by someone, then the Evanuris are the kind of people who would do something like that. The disfiguring effect could be an accident, created by the presence of the Veil, or it could simply be that the Evanuris didn't care about the side effects. There are other parties who could be the source of the Blight, but neither the Forbidden Ones nor the Old Gods come across as beings who wanted to rule.

 

So for now my I maintain the hypothesis: "The Evanuris created the Blight in order to assume direct control™ of everyone". It like it because it's simple, and easy to confirm or falsify once we discover the source of the Blight.

[Mlady]

I do. It's the place where Solas imprisoned the Evanuris. The Evanuris created the Blight in order to assume direct control ™ of everyone. I think a world full of Blighted people controlled by a cabal of Evanuris would be enough to make Solas take some drastic steps.

 

I'm not sure they created it. Based on the Veilfire Rune info and what Solas says about the Blight, they unleashed it accidentally. Most likely they discovered it after Mythal killed the Titan and they went on a lyrium mining spree. Sometimes I think Cole's line about making bodies from the earth implies they accidentally birthed the Darkspawn. I think once they found it they tried to harness it though and they made a mess of everything. 

 

I strongly think the Black City is Arlathan because of the spires we see in the Fade. Solas mentioned the blue spires, and we read a description about a elf seeing those blue spires and the gates to the city wide open. It seems it all connects. Also the broken pieces of the city floating around the Fade are tainted green like the desert in the Western Approach where the second Blight happened.

[TK514]

Trespasser did not confirm that the Black City is Arlathan, but I wouldn't be surprised.  Regardless of what the Golden City was originally supposed to be in the Developers' eyes, we seem to be moving more and more towards a state of 'everything bad in Thedas is ultimately the elves fault'.

[Mlady]

Trespasser did not confirm that the Black City is Arlathan, but I wouldn't be surprised.  Regardless of what the Golden City was originally supposed to be in the Developers' eyes, we seem to be moving more and more towards a state of 'everything bad in Thedas is ultimately the elves fault'.

 

If we grasp at straws, this codex entry is the biggest hint.

 

The pages of this book—memory?—describe an elf approaching a city of glass spires so deeply blue they ache. The city's outskirts are wrapped in lakes of mist, and figures stroll along the pearly, glowing strips as if they walked on solid ground. Groves of trees woven into enormous parks shelter elves in quiet hollows, while other elves walk below a river churning along an invisible shoal in the air. The scene hums with quiet talk and contentment as the memory's maker reaches the city's gates, already thrown open wide.

[Ieldra]

I'm not sure they created it. Based on the Veilfire Rune info and what Solas says about the Blight, they unleashed it accidentally. Most likely they discovered it after Mythal killed the Titan and they went on a lyrium mining spree. Sometimes I think Cole's line about making bodies from the earth implies they accidentally birthed the Darkspawn. I think once they found it they tried to harness it though and they made a mess of everything.

That veilfire rune refers to something discovered while fighting the Titan. I see no reference to the Blight. Also, what did Solas say about the Blight?
 
 

I strongly think the Black City is Arlathan because of the spires we see in the Fade. Solas mentioned the blue spires, and we read a description about a elf seeing those blue spires and the gates to the city wide open. It seems it all connects. Also the broken pieces of the city floating around the Fade are tainted green like the desert in the Western Approach where the second Blight happened.

I just checked the timelines. As opposed to my expectations, this actually pans out:

The first humans on Thedas apparently still knew the elves as immortals, and the timeline places the first mention of the loss of immortality around -1650 TE, which means that the Veil came up at some time between -1900 TE and -1650 TE. The first mention of the Golden City is placed around -1600 TE - that would fit perfectly. If the Black City is Arlathan, though, it's only a part of the ancient capital of Elvhenan, namely the part that had enough of a "dream aspect" to come to reside in the Fade, as opposed to another part that was ultimately found and plundered by Tevinter.

[Mlady]

That veilfire rune refers to something discovered while fighting the Titan. I see no reference to the Blight. Also, what did Solas say about the Blight?

 

I think it's red lyrium they found since Titans bleed lyrium and if the Blight tainted it, it wouldn't be pretty (angry energy could be a Titan's wrath). I think the Blight is somehow connected to the Titan's death, but I could be wrong.

 

"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!" For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."

 

That voice speaking is Solas.

 

In the main game Solas also said that the ones who first unleashed the Blight were doing it for their own power. I have no doubts he was talking of the Evanuris after Trespasser. We think he means the Magisters, but it's obvious by now Cory brought what Solas sealed away, into Thedas, but the true heart of it is most likely sealed in the Black City.

 

This is just my theory though 

[Ieldra]

It's pretty much implied it's red lyrium they found since Titans bleed lyrium and if the Blight tainted it, it wouldn't be pretty. I think the Blight is somehow connected to the Titan's death, but I could be wrong.
 
"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!" For a moment, the scent of blood fills the air, and there is a vivid image of green vines growing and enveloping a sphere of fire. The vision grows dark. An aeon seems to pass. Then the runes crackle, as if filled with an angry energy. A new vision appears: elves collapsing caverns, sealing the Deep Roads with stone and magic. Terror, heart-pounding, ice-cold, as the last of the spells is cast. A voice whispers: "What the Evanuris in their greed could unleash would end us all. Let this place be forgotten. Let no one wake its anger. The People must rise before their false gods destroy them all."
 
That voice speaking is Solas.
 
Solas also said that the ones who first unleashed the Blight were doing it for their own power. I have no doubts he was talking of the Evanuris after Trespasser. We think he means the Magisters, but it's obvious by now Cory brought what Solas sealed away, into Thedas, but the true heart of it is most likely sealed in the Black City.

I don't see any connection to red lyrium, even less an obvious one. If the Evanuris were the first to unleash the Blight - which I agree is very likely and in tune with my hypothesis - the question is where does it come from? If red lyrium is somehow involved, then the question is how did *that* catch the Blight? Or was it its ultimate source, possibly having come into being when the titan was killed. And how did it get to the Black City if the Deep Roads were sealed off? On the other hand, if the Evanuris created it, how did so much lyrium get infected?

[Mlady]

I don't see any connection to red lyrium, even less an obvious one. If the Evanuris were the first to unleash the Blight - which I agree is very likely and in tune with my hypothesis - the question is where does it come from? If red lyrium is somehow involved, then the question is how did *that* catch the Blight? Or was it its ultimate source, possibly having come into being when the titan was killed. And how did it get to the Black City if the Deep Roads were sealed off? On the other hand, if the Evanuris created it, how did so much lyrium get infected?

 

I edited it to add my theory on that. I'm half a sleep lol

 

I think killing the Titan was possibly the beginning of it. The Earth fought back (as Cole said) could be the Titan's way of revenge for its death and the terrible things done to its corpse. It seems the everything connects to the Titans. I actually did a double-take in a recent convo with Cole. He said the Templars who take lyrium reach for something older than them and bigger. Titans. It sings as do the Old Gods too. Somehow Dragons and Titans and their blood have a weird connection that includes being Blighted into an Archdemon.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I'd honestly feel kind of baffled if the Blight is why the Evanuris almost destroyed the world. If the human nations are capable of repelling five blights, then surely the Elvhenan could have done so as well. Honestly I'd estimate that Solas creating the Veil was a bigger catastrophe than than any of the individual Blights, (at least for everyone except the dwarves) so why would he resort to more extreme measures as than the problem itself?

[Mlady]

I'd honestly feel kind of baffled if the Blight is why the Evanuris almost destroyed the world. If the human nations are capable of repelling five blights, then surely the Elvhenan could have done so as well. Honestly I'd estimate that Solas creating the Veil was a bigger catastrophe than than any of the individual Blights, (at least for everyone except the dwarves) so why would he resort to more extreme measures as than the problem itself?

 

I think the Evanuris were trying to harness the power of the Blight and Solas feared the continued abuse of the people. He does admit his Veil was a bad idea after he saw what it did, but it kept the world going longer unlike if the false Gods would have been able to use the Blight for their own greed as he stated. My guess? The Blight would have consumed them too because they had no idea what they were doing.

[Heimdall]

I just checked the timelines. As opposed to my expectations, this actually pans out:The first humans on Thedas apparently still knew the elves as immortals, and the timeline places the first mention of the loss of immortality around -1650 TE, which means that the Veil came up at some time between -1900 TE and -1650 TE. The first mention of the Golden City is placed around -1600 TE - that would fit perfectly. If the Black City is Arlathan, though, it's only a part of the ancient capital of Elvhenan, namely the part that had enough of a "dream aspect" to come to reside in the Fade, as opposed to another part that was ultimately found and plundered by Tevinter.

I remain skeptical that nobody in Tevinter would have noted that the Golden City suddenly appeared one day, especially considering how fascinated Magisters have always been with exploring the Fade and that they were ruled by dreamers. Much less that none of them noted similarities to a city they laid siege to and destroyed.

[Ieldra]

I remain skeptical that nobody in Tevinter would have noted that the Golden City suddenly appeared one day, especially considering how fascinated Magisters have always been with exploring the Fade and that they were ruled by dreamers. Much less that none of them noted similarities to a city they laid siege to and destroyed.

Note the date? 1600 years before the founding of the Imperium. 300 years after the first humans appeared on Thedas, if those accounts are true. Magisters didn't exist at that time, it isn't even clear if Dreamers existed. The legend says the Old Gods taught the Neromenian tribes magic, which gave rise to the Dreamer-Kings. That would've started around that time, -1650 TE.

 

BTW, some timelines falsely claim Thalsian was the first Dreamer. Given the legends, the Dreamers existed long before Tevinter was united, so if they're true, Thalsian can't have been the first Dreamer. What he was, according to legend, is the first blood mage, though I doubt that, too. It seems more likely that blood was the first known power source for magic.

[Ashagar]

Actually, the neromenian tribes dreamers contacted the forbidden ones in the fade who taught them many secrets of magic before the Tevinter got into the whole old god business and empire making business, who forbid contact with the forbidden ones is unknown but it might have had something with the ancient Neromenian Maker cult

[Ieldra]

Actually, the neromenian tribes dreamers contacted the forbidden ones in the fade who taught them many secrets of magic before the Tevinter got into the whole old god business and empire making business, who forbid contact with the forbidden ones is unknown but it might have had something with the ancient Neromenian Maker cult

Do you have a source for the hypothesis that the Forbidden Ones were in any way involved? WoTI says that according to the legend, it was the Old Gods who taught the Dreamers of the Neromenian tribes magic. That was around -2800 Ancient or -1600 TE according to the timeline in WoTI.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The DA 2 codex entries on the Forbidden Ones says that they taught humans blood magic. Also Thalsian lived for centuries before the Imperium was united, so I don't know why he couldn't have been the first dreamer. Or The first neromenian one anyway, perhaps.

[Ieldra]

The DA 2 codex entries on the Forbidden Ones says that they taught humans blood magic. Also Thalsian lived for centuries before the Imperium was united, so I don't know why he couldn't have been the first dreamer. Or The first neromenian one anyway, perhaps.

Thalsian lived 1200 years *after* the Old Gods started to teach humans magic, according to legend. That's a bit much to ignore, don't you think? Unless it's all BS of course, but I don't think it is. At the very least, it indicates that magic was used by humans long before Thalsian's time.

 

Also, blood magic and somniari magic are unrelated. There is no reason why the first known blood mage must also be the first Dreamer. And lastly, there are three different claims about the source of blood magic: (1) Thalsian got it from the Old Gods, (2) Early magisters got it from the Forbidden Ones, (3) Humans got it from Elvhenan. There is no reason to claim any of these as factual. In fact, I consider it extremely unlikely that the elves of Elvhenan didn't know blood magic, and they would've been the most likely source. Somniari powers are different, since they're only meaningful in a world where the Fade is separate, but we can estimate the Veil's creation as having taken place between -1900 TE and -1650 TE. It would make sense for Dreamers to appear shortly thereafter.

[robertthebard]

If we grasp at straws, this codex entry is the biggest hint.
 
The pages of this book—memory?—describe an elf approaching a city of glass spires so deeply blue they ache. The city's outskirts are wrapped in lakes of mist, and figures stroll along the pearly, glowing strips as if they walked on solid ground. Groves of trees woven into enormous parks shelter elves in quiet hollows, while other elves walk below a river churning along an invisible shoal in the air. The scene hums with quiet talk and contentment as the memory's maker reaches the city's gates, already thrown open wide.

Fatal flaw in your idea:

First line describes an elf walking up to a city, it then goes on to describe the city, and nowhere is it golden. The gates thrown open in the last line are referencing the city in the first line. Since the memory is describing an elf walking up to a fairly detailed description that never says golden, and finds the gates open, it's more logical to assume that the elf reached his destination, than to contort the entry to mean something that it doesn't even imply.