80 réponses à ce sujet

[prosthetic soul]

Keeper Elf: "Inquisitor, I need you to destroy some demons which have infested our burial ground nearby.  That's it.  No rules or disclaimers here.  I have absolutely nothing additional to say that could possibly foreshadow a slight hiccup in the over-arching quest to insipidly gain our favor even though you rolled a Dalish elf mage.   Go get em tiger!"

 

Me: OKAY

*Five Minutes Later*

 

Keeper Elf: "Oooh, I am terribly sorry Inquisitor but I'm afraid you did something a bit heinous.  You see, upon entering the burial grounds you immediately came across a conveniently placed and almost contrived tomb that had a glowing aura around it brighter than the sun.  It's almost as if some group of....developers...specifically placed that tomb right at the entrance in order to bait players who are used to looting every thing that glows or shines.  In fact, I'm pretty sure these....esoteric creators couldn't have made it any more bait worthy even if they had put a gigantic LOOT ME sign right next to it. 

 

So, in other words, you desecrated our holy site for burying our dead.  You are now barred from getting one of our clansmen as an Agent." 

 

Spoiler

[The Night Haunter]

I recall seeing/hearing something about being careful of desecrating graves, but that was a year ago so idk. What bugged me most about that area was the one quest that *wanted* you to loot those graves couldn't be completed if you wanted to be nice, and so I had an unfinished quest in my log, just taunting me for ever!!!!!!

 

....

 

!

[actionhero112]

It's pretty hilarious that you borderline graverob the entire game but only in one instance do they punish you for it and they don't even warn you about it first. 

 

I wasn't even aware it was a grave the first time. I'm not used to coffins being out in the open like that. 

[fchopin]

It's a simple quest.

 

Go and kill the demons and then go back and talk to the Keeper. Quest done.

Then go and loot the burial ground and get the keys. Very easy.

[Avaraen]

It's a simple quest.

 

Go and kill the demons and then go back and talk to the Keeper. Quest done.

Then go and loot the burial ground and get the keys. Very easy.

 

The problem is a player won't know that their first time through. As others have said - everywhere else in the game, there's no concept of ownership or crime and we're encouraged to loot everything for quest items, mosaic pieces, etc. Then suddenly you're the bad guy for doing so, when no one warned you it would be a problem. Design consistency is important, especially in what's ostensibly an RP game.

 

I think you can still get the agent though; if the wiki is correct, there are enough other ways to gain favour if you play your cards right.

[Krypplingz]

"And be mindful of the resting places of our dead. Var Bellanaris is a sacred ground."

The codex entry in front of the place also mentions that this is an old burial place and current elves like burying their dead in there. 

To get the key you need to "Destroy" a stone slab which is obviously some sort of a grave. The quest is called "The spoils of desecration" aka "Loot for disturbing a sacred place". If you have Cassandra and Solas in the team they do tell you to mind your step. 

 

How would you like it if someone smashed your families tombstones/urns and dug up their corpses/ashes when you just asked him to convince some rowdy teenagers to leave the graveyard? All to get the keys to your families crypt where there might or might not be treasures. 

And this was just for giggles, there was no artifact of immense power that was the only thing standing between this world and the void. Just some fancy jeans and a cardigan. Maybe some fine tobacco, but no magical artifact. 

And then this person wants to take your child on a trip where they would probably do even more ghoulish stuff. Even if the person was family, you would (hopefully) be against it. 

 

And even from an adventurer stand point this is risky, you're stealing form the sacred ground of an ancient race. This usually ends up with the poor fool getting cursed with insanity, sickness or haunted by some horrible monster that wants it's +2 ring back. 

Just be happy that you only lost out on one agent and your character face wasn't melted into a pile of goop with eyes and a mouth. _{(Which would have been awesome. As in I would do the quest more often.)}

(On a more serious note, the quest does play a bit on the players desire for shiny things and I kind of wish that the developers did more of it. If you steal stuff, people should be suspicious of you. Even if they don't catch you, the word should spread that things go missing when you snoop around. Like in the Winter Palace, there should be some cold glares over all the cutlery that went missing into the players deep pockets.) 

[thats1evildude]

Like Krypplingz, I remember Keeper Hawen saying "Be mindful of the resting places of our dead." Maybe you should try paying attention to the quest giver next time?

[BansheeOwnage]

I recall seeing/hearing something about being careful of desecrating graves, but that was a year ago so idk. What bugged me most about that area was the one quest that *wanted* you to loot those graves couldn't be completed if you wanted to be nice, and so I had an unfinished quest in my log, just taunting me for ever!!!!!!

 

....

 

!

You know what I do? Talk to Hawen, kill the demons, talk to him again. Then, go back and desecrate away I'm not giving up that mosaic piece.

 

Edit: 'd

[Marshal Moriarty]

Saying that people should have been paying attention, completely ignores that you can get away with this kind of stuff 99% of the time, and nothing is ever said. Like that bit in ME2, where Shepard can angrily berate (and even attack) some guys for looting a dead Turian's stuff on Omega, when you've been doing the exact same thing all the way through the level. It makes Shepard's disgust and self righteous scorn sound appalinglly hypocritical.

 

There is never any consistency on these things. Urgent missions can be put off forever, strict orders not to deviate from established routes can be ignored, mages can freely thtow spells around in public and in front of Templars (Mage Hawke saving Cullen in DA2 during their first meeting beind a paritularly hilarious example).

 

So don't put it on the players. If there was any consistency on this, then it would be a valid argument, As it stands, its impossible to know what will and won't be considered crossing the line or be considered some big deal for later consequences. Its yet another nail in the 'Your Choices have Consequences' coffin.

[thats1evildude]

Saying that people should have been paying attention, completely ignores that you can get away with this kind of stuff 99% of the time, and nothing is ever said.

 

1) Nowhere else in the game do you have to destroy gravestones to get at loot.

2) The quest is literally called Spoils of Desecration.

3) Keeper Hawen did say "Don't destroy the graves please."

 

If you're still so dumb that you can't figure out the Dalish might object to your grave robbery, then I would say the only thing Bioware is doing wrong is overestimating the intelligence of its audience.

[Al Foley]

The Keeper warned me off.  SO much so in fact that when I accidentally did it anyways I reloaded.  Oops.  

[giveamanafish...]

I'm pretty sure on my first playthru I was able to both loot the graves and to get the Keeper to release the elf-who-wanted-to-join-the-inquisition. I was a real completionist and did all the tasks related to the Clan on the Plains. Human mage Inq.

[prosthetic soul]

The problem is a player won't know that their first time through. As others have said - everywhere else in the game, there's no concept of ownership or crime and we're encouraged to loot everything for quest items, mosaic pieces, etc. Then suddenly you're the bad guy for doing so, when no one warned you it would be a problem. Design consistency is important, especially in what's ostensibly an RP game.

 

I think you can still get the agent though; if the wiki is correct, there are enough other ways to gain favour if you play your cards right.

I didn't see a way.  I got all the resources, found the elf guy, got the golden halla, and I still couldn't recruit him. 

[SetecAstronomy]

The Keeper warned me off.  SO much so in fact that when I accidentally did it anyways I reloaded.  Oops.  

 

Wait...we can reload to correct a mistake?!?

[prosthetic soul]

Wait...we can reload to correct a mistake?!?

metagaming is so awesome

[Al Foley]

Wait...we can reload to correct a mistake?!?

*in Quirrell voice*  What is this magic?!

[Mlady]

I didn't see a way.  I got all the resources, found the elf guy, got the golden halla, and I still couldn't recruit him. 

 

You can give the Keeper the ancient scrolls you find in the elven ruins in The Emerald Graves.

[SetecAstronomy]

metagaming is so awesome

 

In role-playing games, metagaming is an "out of character" action where a player's character makes use of knowledge that the player is aware of but that the character is not meant to be aware of.

 

The character knows it is desecration. The player may not have known that. I see no metagaming in reloading a save that corrects a mistake the player made that the character wouldn't have, unless the character was being played as someone who willfully desecrates.

[prosthetic soul]

 

 

 

The character knows it is desecration. The player may not have known that. I see no metagaming in reloading a save that corrects a mistake the player made that the character wouldn't have, unless the character was being played as someone who willfully desecrates.

Uh, hello?  The character isn't aware he is constantly being reset in order to fulfill his obligations as Inquisitor.  >_>

 

Spoiler

I meant save scumming.  That was the term I Was looking for.  Can't believe I got those mixed up.

[SetecAstronomy]

Uh, hello?  The character isn't aware he is constantly being reset in order to fulfill his obligations as Inquisitor.  >_>

 

Spoiler

I meant save scumming.  That was the term I Was looking for.  Can't believe I got those mixed up.

 

Okay. Didn't mean to distract. Enjoy your thread.

[Big I]

Even if you desecrate the graves you can still get enough favour with the Dalish (bring them the golden hala, tell them the truth about Red Crossing, etc)

[Fredward]

He does warn you, very clearly. I've never robbed that place specifically cuz I'm just an amazing person like that.

[Abyss108]

As others have said, various characters do warn you. It was your own choice to ignore them, and that gave you a consequence. Not sure why you're claiming this is inconsistant, when no other part of the game let's you desecrate sacred graves whilst people are watching...

 

You can still get enough favour by doing other quests for them though. 

[Fredward]

A poster in another thread did point out that you can mount your... mount and sidled up right next to the door and then dismount which allows you to glitch through the door so you can get the loot without a scolding since  technically you never opened the door.

[KaiserShep]

How would you like it if someone smashed your families tombstones/urns and dug up their corpses/ashes when you just asked him to convince some rowdy teenagers to leave the graveyard? All to get the keys to your families crypt where there might or might not be treasures. 

 

I would resent that said family member decided to be buried with that XP and treasure. The dead have no use for it. Put it in the will.