80 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

You can give the Keeper the ancient scrolls you find in the elven ruins in The Emerald Graves.

By desecrating Elven graves.

[AntiChri5]

As others have said, various characters do warn you. It was your own choice to ignore them, and that gave you a consequence. Not sure why you're claiming this is inconsistant, when no other part of the game let's you desecrate sacred graves whilst people are watching...

 

You can still get enough favour by doing other quests for them though. 

It is inconsistent. The same Elven Keeper rewards you for desecrating Elven graves in the forest. What is that if not inconsistent?

[AntiChri5]

Is there anything worse then seeing what you want implemented in a way that annoys you?

 

I am completely onboard with consequences for looting where you shouldn't and for integrating gameplay into narrative by giving gameplay actions narrative consequences. But this was a really **** way to do it.

 

First, you can do it accidentally. A few abilities will destroy the graves. Given that you engage in combat in the area, some people are inevitably going to break a grave.

 

Second, the quest is added to your journal regardless of whether or not you want to do it. Once you click on the door, the quest is added. Having unfinished quests in the journal really bugs some players, don't force optional morally ambiguous quests into the journal.

 

Third, there's a ****** mosaic in there. Don't hide one of 50 collectibles in an area only accessed by an optional morally ambiguous decision. Either regularly gate them that way or have none of them gated that way.

 

Fourth, the same bloody clan rewards you for breaking into an Elven tomb in another area. You even work with some people from his clan to do so. This is an absurd inconsistency.

[correctamundo]

Hawen explicitly warns you but still you need hand-holding =) The fault is not Biowares here. Anyway my first Inq also ignored the keepers warning and desecrated the tombs. Being human noble and all so it was in character. He felt a little ashamed and bettered his elven relations in the future. Still got the agent though with the truth of red crossing.

[thats1evildude]

By desecrating Elven graves.

Not really. You do take a scroll that was hanging in the air by magic, but if the elves didn't intend anyone to reach it, they wouldn't install a mechanism to allow someone to reach it.

[Ieldra]

The Keeper tells you it's sacred ground, and even if he didn't you know at least it's a graveyard. I fully expected some repercussions if I started to loot there, and consequently either didn't do it at all (for rp reasons) or delayed it until everything else in this area was resolved.

The most annoying factor wasn't the negative repercussions themselves, but the fact that I'm a completionist and had to sacrifice either roleplaying or completionism with my main Inquisitor. An unfinished quest or collection in my journal, that's almost painful.

[Illyria]

The Keeper tells you not to destroy the graves.  Solas - if he's in the party when you arrive at the graveyard - will also ask you to respect the place.  The codex entry you get tells you it's a sacred place.  If you're playing as a Dalish elf then there's RP reasons not to destroy the graves (my Lavellan doesn't even loot any of the chests that are out in the open.)  The quest is called Spoils of Desecration which should alert the player not to do it if they're RPing as a moral character.

 

(for the record - my Shepard doesn't loot any of the houses in Omega and my thief in Skyrim plays by thieves guild rules even when not on a job for the guild.)

 

@anyone who says the quest contradicts the quest in the Emerald Graves - there's a big difference between grave robbing and destroying a scared ground and an archaeological dig* (which is clearly what the elves intended to do before they and the Inquisition scouts were murdered).

 

*at least there should be a difference.  I'm well aware that older archaeology could be less than respectful.

[AntiChri5]

Not really. You do take a scroll that was hanging in the air by magic, but if the elves didn't intend anyone to reach it, they wouldn't install a mechanism to allow someone to reach it.

And in order to get to it you have to get all the medalions, many of which were on enemies but some of which were in sealed chests and I believe one was on an Elven corpse. And then you have to disturb all of the Elven dead in order to extend the bridge, killing them after waking them up.

[AntiChri5]

@anyone who says the quest contradicts the quest in the Emerald Graves - there's a big difference between grave robbing and destroying a scared ground and an archaeological dig* (which is clearly what the elves intended to do before they and the Inquisition scouts were murdered).

 

*at least there should be a difference.  I'm well aware that older archaeology could be less than respectful.

The difference mostly seems to be whether the locals are cool with it.

[prosthetic soul]

Hawen explicitly warns you but still you need hand-holding =) The fault is not Biowares here. Anyway my first Inq also ignored the keepers warning and desecrated the tombs. Being human noble and all so it was in character. He felt a little ashamed and bettered his elven relations in the future. Still got the agent though with the truth of red crossing.

That really wasn't a warning.  It was a nonchalant, passing remark that, as others have already said in this very thread, wouldn't have raised any red flags with a player who wasn't already consciously looking out for the signs. 

[Abyss108]

That really wasn't a warning.  It was a nonchalant, passing remark that, as others have already said in this very thread, wouldn't have raised any red flags with a player who wasn't already consciously looking out for the signs. 

 

Except as numerous people have posted, it DID raise red flags. The majority of people did listen to the warning, which was pointed out by multiple characters in the game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The problem is a player won't know that their first time through.

The game shouldn't have to hold your hand to that degree.

[Sylvius the Mad]

That really wasn't a warning. It was a nonchalant, passing remark that, as others have already said in this very thread, wouldn't have raised any red flags with a player who wasn't already consciously looking out for the signs.

You're actively trying to curry favour. Why would you not be looking out for those signs?

[thats1evildude]

The difference mostly seems to be whether the locals are cool with it.

It's not just that. No one except the Inquisitor is trying to get into the Unadin Grotto. The Venatori have already broken into Diran'Hanin to loot the place. You're there to get whatever treasure the place holds before they do.

[Elhanan]

Seem to recall that banter in the party warned me from doing so with my first Dwarven Inq; no problems here. However, I was not warned that brutal honesty by a Dalish Inq would be problematic; better to keep the idea of Blood Magic close to the vest, it seems.

Silver Lining: These are some of the Consequences folks have been seeking....

[Asch Lavigne]

Complete the quest then go back and loot the place.

[actionhero112]

Yeah everyone's basically ignoring that if you don't loot the graves the first time, finish the quest, go back and then loot them it's totally cool with Hawen.

 

It's not consistent and it's stupidly arbitrary. Only point in the game where the game punishes you for interacting with objects. 

 

Plus Hawen warns you, but it's not even clear what he's warning you about. He literally said to go kill demons, and then tells you to be careful around the burial sites of their people. I logically though that he meant to be careful of the demons around the burial sites. I thought there would be revenants, like in the brecilian forest around the elven graves. 

 

Plus to those of us that run around pressing the interact key after a battle, it's very easy to accidentally destroy one.

 

Again, they don't even look like graves. They're slabs of rock. 

 

I'm sorry Hawen that your ambiguous warning didn't make it clear that this square rock was sacred to your people. I'll just tell you I killed the demons, then destroy all the graves, because apparently that's fine with you. K cool. 

[berelinde]

I was able to complete this quest without breaking any of the tombs (I had to switch off all AoE to do it). I'd forgotten about Hawen's warning, but somebody else in the party (not Solas, because he wasn't with me at the time... Blackwall?) warned me to leave the graves alone. That reminded me about what Hawen said, so I left the graves alone. Later on, after recruiting Loranil, I'd forgotten all about desecrating the graves, so when I saw all the interactable tombstones, I went around breaking them open. Hey, breaking things is fun. Demons poured out!

 

So... you have to get rid of all the demons to complete the first quest, but don't break open any tombs because more demons will jump out, and you aren't allowed to kill them until after you've turned in teh first quest. Got it.

 

You know, I would have had a much easier time with this quest if they'd have giant spiders jump out of the desecrated tombs.Because Hawen did want the demons gone.

[Sylvius the Mad]

The Keeper tells you it's sacred ground, and even if he didn't you know at least it's a graveyard. I fully expected some repercussions if I started to loot there, and consequently either didn't do it at all (for rp reasons) or delayed it until everything else in this area was resolved.

The most annoying factor wasn't the negative repercussions themselves, but the fact that I'm a completionist and had to sacrifice either roleplaying or completionism with my main Inquisitor. An unfinished quest or collection in my journal, that's almost painful.

I don't see how completionism is compatible with roleplaying. Completionism is a metagame concern.

[thats1evildude]

Yeah everyone's basically ignoring that if you don't loot the graves the first time, finish the quest, go back and then loot them it's totally cool with Hawen.

Because he doesn't have people watching you anymore. He doesn't know that you went back there and robbed the graves.

And no, he didn't tell you that you were being watched. THAT WOULD DEFEAT THE POINT OF HAVING YOU WATCHED.

Again, they don't even look like graves. They're slabs of rock.

That's what a gravestone is, numbnuts.

Dear God, never go near a plane's emergency exit mid-flight. You'll kill everyone aboard when you mistake it for the lever in a claw machine.

[Gold Dragon]

I didn't see a way.  I got all the resources, found the elf guy, got the golden halla, and I still couldn't recruit him. 

 

hmmm.....

 

Did you also find that elf woman's brother? And NOT tell her that he tried using Blood Magic?

Did you find the Item he was looking for and return it to her?

Did you find the Elven hunters (can only be done before you reach the Dalish camp) and bring the keeper their message?

[Arakat]

If I remember correctly, the prompt on the gravestones doesn't even say "loot", it says "destroy". And... that might be bad?

[berelinde]

hmmm.....

 

Did you also find that elf woman's brother? And NOT tell her that he tried usinjg Blood Magic?

Did you find the Item he was looking for and return it to her?

Did you find the Elven hunters (can only be done before you reach the Dalish camp) and bring the keeper their message?

According to the wiki, you lose 1 Dalish Favor for every tomb you desecrate, so if you went on a looting spree, it may not be possible to regain all the points you lost.

 

You can also gain +3 Dalish Favor by giving Hawen the scroll you get in the Emerald Graves from doing that Knight's Tomb quest.

 

Want to know what's really messed up about the Dalish hunters you meet on the border between Halin'Suhlan and the Path of Flame? If you are a human, dwarf, or qunari, you get +1 Dalish Favor for passing the message on, but if you are an elf, you don't get any points at all from it.

[The Oracle]

In fairness, more issues should be raised when looting bodies. We run around the game stripping down dead folk all the time...and then we just leave them there, out in the open to rot away. I remember getting a bit queasy when I looted two civilian bodies that were next to each other and each one happened to have a random roll of the lovers braid.

 

I mean, think about it. You've found some dead people, taken their personal effects (toys, love tokens, heirlooms) and then you leave them lying there while you wander off to sell everything for gold. You're almost as bad as those Templars that steal the dead elf's wedding ring (though at least we don't kill civilians in game).

[correctamundo]

Seem to recall that banter in the party warned me from doing so with my first Dwarven Inq; no problems here. However, I was not warned that brutal honesty by a Dalish Inq would be problematic; better to keep the idea of Blood Magic close to the vest, it seems.

Silver Lining: These are some of the Consequences folks have been seeking....

 

Haha, yes that one bit me in the behind as well! Still Trevelyan managed to get favour enough with the keeper.