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[ComedicSociopathy]

They both suck.

 

It is known.

 

Just keep them both alive and blackmail them into obedience. 

 

That or let Sera throw bees at them. 

[sylvanaerie]

I always looked on it as a 'lesser of two evils' situation.  I didn't read TME so I can't comment on anything in that.  I had to go by what little I could glean from the game.  Gaspard reminded me too much of Vaughan.  Celene is the current monarch and would be a stablizing influence on the Empire (which is my inquisitor's goal, not let it slip to chaos).  One of the arguing points for Anora in Origins is I want to keep the nation as stable as I can, so my warden's usually leave her on the throne.  That's only one argument for it, but not my only consideration.  Celene seems more open to discussion, using her words.  From the conversations I have with various NPC's in the palace, Gaspard comes off as a bully, using bullying tactics when he doesn't get his way.  He seems more like a spoiled prince who was told all his life he'd rule and that's the only reason he'd be ruling, not that he'd bring anything useful to the table.

 

So Celene it is.  Sometimes, Celene with Briala (on my Dalish).

[Steelcan]

I always looked on it as a 'lesser of two evils' situation.  I didn't read TME so I can't comment on anything in that.  I had to go by what little I could glean from the game.  Gaspard reminded me too much of Vaughan.  Celene is the current monarch and would be a stablizing influence on the Empire (which is my inquisitor's goal, not let it slip to chaos).  One of the arguing points for Anora in Origins is I want to keep the nation as stable as I can, so my warden's usually leave her on the throne.  That's only one argument for it, but not my only consideration.  Celene seems more open to discussion, using her words.  From the conversations I have with various NPC's in the palace, Gaspard comes off as a bully, using bullying tactics when he doesn't get his way.  He seems more like a spoiled prince who was told all his life he'd rule and that's the only reason he'd be ruling, not that he'd bring anything useful to the table.

 

So Celene it is.  Sometimes, Celene with Briala (on my Dalish).

not to be overly blunt, but in this case a bully is what is needed.  You can't get Corypheus and his henchmen to back off by throwing a few parties and throwing money at the arts.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Because Gaspard is much more trustworthy ally than Celene at least to my knowledge, Gaspard follows his code of honor ,while even Celene lover couldn't trust her.

Gaspard also isn't big fan of "The game" so i can see him attempting bring it down so for some people that may be another pros, when Celene pretty much promotes corruption.Gaspard vision of Orlais isn't bad for Orlais but pretty bad for other countries ,so it depends for who you root for.

 

Personally , i blackmail them so they can destroy each other bringing their country with them while i benefit from it while i can (or at least it was intention).

 

 

[Xilizhra]

not to be overly blunt, but in this case a bully is what is needed.  You can't get Corypheus and his henchmen to back off by throwing a few parties and throwing money at the arts.

Truth be told, Corypheus is such a feeb that you probably could. More seriously, Celene and Gaspard will both be using the same army; there isn't enough time for Gaspard to undertake significant military reforms that would actually affect Corypheus.

[Steelcan]

Truth be told, Corypheus is such a feeb that you probably could. More seriously, Celene and Gaspard will both be using the same army; there isn't enough time for Gaspard to undertake significant military reforms that would actually affect Corypheus.

You're smart, do I really have to explain the differences that would inevitably arise in the use of an army by a career general and soldier and a politician who doesn't know the difference between a flail and a mace?

[Babelas]

His voice. 

[ComedicSociopathy]

You're smart, do I really have to explain the differences that would inevitably arise in the use of an army by a career general and soldier and a politician who doesn't know the difference between a flail and a mace?

 

Because there's no other generals in the entirety of Orlais that Celene can get to command her forces...

 

 

His voice. 

 

Alright, you got me there. 

[SgtSteel91]

Because there's no other generals in the entirety of Orlais that Celene can get to command her forces...

 

Or give us money and connections to build up our own forces.

[Xilizhra]

You're smart, do I really have to explain the differences that would inevitably arise in the use of an army by a career general and soldier and a politician who doesn't know the difference between a flail and a mace?

One runs everything themselves, one delegates?

[Arvaarad]

Both are skilled players of the Game, but Celene has more experience with politics than Gaspard, which means she's harder to manipulate. Even Briala considers Gaspard easier to influence, and she had Celene's ear as a lover for years.

Gaspard's pro-war stance also (unfortunately) makes him very very popular with the chevaliers. Celene would certainly prefer to avoid civil war, but it may not be possible when her own army prefers her rival.

Paradoxically, Gaspard can "get away" with more peaceful, more elf-friendly actions because he's already talked a big game. The horrible people like him already, so he can sneak in a few reforms before they go "hey, wait a sec, what are you doing???" Whereas they consider Celene to be too soft on elves/too peaceful already, so any further action just riles them up more. With Gaspard, they'll tell themselves, "well, Celene would have probably been worse."

[Steelcan]

We know at least one of Celenes top generals was killed prior to the war's outbreak, much of the military heriarchy supports Gaspard, so I imagine her field of experienced generals is rather limited.

[SgtSteel91]

But what if word were to get out Gaspard was using Fereldan mercenaries to win the war?

[Steelcan]

But what if word were to get out Gaspard was using Fereldan mercenaries to win the war?

*gasp* someone is using mercenaries to augment his own forces!!! The OUTRAGE!!

Him using the mercenaries at the Ball was only controversial because he planned to use them to attack the proceedings. I imagine in the actual war itself using mercenaries was not particularly noteworthy.

[SgtSteel91]

*gasp* someone is using mercenaries to augment his own forces!!! The OUTRAGE!!

Him using the mercenaries at the Ball was only controversial because he planned to use them to attack the proceedings. I imagine in the actual war itself using mercenaries was not particularly noteworthy.

 

That's what I meant; he wasn't going to use Chevaliers to attack a Peace Talk, it was mercenaries, and Fereldan mercenaries at that.

[Xilizhra]

We know at least one of Celenes top generals was killed prior to the war's outbreak, much of the military heriarchy supports Gaspard, so I imagine her field of experienced generals is rather limited.

One would think, if that was a factor, it would have been brought up at the ball, but people only talk about the personal qualities of the leaders themselves.

[Steelcan]

That's what I meant; he wasn't going to use Chevaliers to attack a Peace Talk, it was mercenaries, and Fereldan mercenaries at that.

those aren't the only forces he has, he's using them to augment his existing forces. iirc he says this if you confront him about it.

[Steelcan]

One would think, if that was a factor, it would have been brought up at the ball, but people only talk about the personal qualities of the leaders themselves.

. Because it's a social gathering centered around the personalities of the leaders. No one raises the issues of Celene's purge of Halamshiral either

[InfinitePaths]

. No one raises the issues of Celene's purge of Halamshiral either

 

Because every noble at the ball sees it as a good thing.

 

Gaspard does have better military experience, but there are plenty of generals like him to help the Inqusition. But you do not put a general on the throne, especially not a privileged spoiled brat who wants to play with his soldiers and ruin everything, not just other nations, but also, his own Empire.

[Steelcan]

Because every noble at the ball sees it as a good thing.

 

Gaspard does have better military experience, but there are plenty of generals like him to help the Inqusition. You do not put a general on the throne, especially not a privileged spoiled brat who wants to play with his soldiers and ruin everything, not just other countries, but also, his own.

Well they're not wrong, but its still something important, that even Gaspard should jump on.

 

Got names by any chance?

 

Yes you absolutely should when you are threatened with an ancient darkspawn magister, an elven uprising, and potential conflicts with Nevarra and Tevinter (see war table missions).  "Privileged spoiled brat" can also be "specially trained and equipped".  He was taught his entire life how to rule, throw in extensive military experience, and a willingness to fight the nobility of Orlais over their foppery and you have got yourself a great candidate for rule.

[sylvanaerie]

not to be overly blunt, but in this case a bully is what is needed.  You can't get Corypheus and his henchmen to back off by throwing a few parties and throwing money at the arts.

 

And the inquisition isn't using Celene's armies/generals to fight Corypheus.  That's what the Inquisitor and his forces are for.  The South needs stability not a warmongering bully who will just cause more war and strife and chaos.

[InfinitePaths]

Well they're not wrong, but its still something important, that even Gaspard should jump on.

 

Got names by any chance?

 

Yes you absolutely should when you are threatened with an ancient darkspawn magister, an elven uprising, and potential conflicts with Nevarra and Tevinter (see war table missions).  "Privileged spoiled brat" can also be "specially trained and equipped".  He was taught his entire life how to rule, throw in extensive military experience, and a willingness to fight the nobility of Orlais over their foppery and you have got yourself a great candidate for rule.

 

I don't have any names, because the writers didn't bother to notify us about meaningless military generals, unless they were concieted arses who wanted to take the throne because reasons.

 

I'm pretty sure Corypheus can be dealt with just fine with Celene's army, combined with the forces of Briala's elf agents who would have died by Gaspard's "dealing with the elven uprising". He was taught, as have many other chevaliers, how to rule an army; and he should have stayed and done so. He shouldn't have tried to capture the throne which involves ruling over affairs he knows nothing about (Nobility, Diplomacy, Economy, Social political issues, Trade, Education etc.).

[Steelcan]

I don't have any names, because the writers didn't bother to notify us about meaningless military generals, unless they were concieted arses who wanted to take the throne because reasons.

 

I'm pretty sure Corypheus can be dealt with just fine with Celene's army, combined with the forces of Briala's elf agents who would have died by Gaspard's "dealing with the elven uprising". He was taught, as have many other chevaliers, how to rule an army; and he should have stayed and done so. He shouldn't have tried to capture the throne which involves ruling over affairs he knows nothing about (Nobility, Diplomacy, Economy, Social political issues, Trade, Education etc.).

"Reasons" you mean his birthright?  That's not a bad reason in the context of a medieval world.

 

He was raised from a young age to be Emperor, he was supposed to be emperor, there is no reason to think he wouldn't have been educated in the other skills of rulership.

[Xilizhra]

"Reasons" you mean his birthright?  That's not a bad reason in the context of a medieval world.

 

He was raised from a young age to be Emperor, he was supposed to be emperor, there is no reason to think he wouldn't have been educated in the other skills of rulership.

Keep in mind that it's culturally dependent. As a nonhuman Inquisitor, I have no reason to give a **** about birthright.

 

There's also the fact that Gaspard is simply an *******, judging by several conversations you can have in the Winter Palace. Making death threats to the Council of Heralds is not the act of a canny politician.

[Steelcan]

Keep in mind that it's culturally dependent. As a nonhuman Inquisitor, I have no reason to give a **** about birthright.

 

There's also the fact that Gaspard is simply an *******, judging by several conversations you can have in the Winter Palace. Making death threats to the Council of Heralds is not the act of a canny politician.

Ok, you can jump into the middle of the situation and say that you don't recognize the legitimacy of any of the proceedings, and that will get you nowhere.  The Inquisition's support is inextricably linked to noble support so saying that birthright is illegitimate is perhaps not the best route.

 

Threatening the people who snubbed his legitimate claim to the throne, people who are already opposed to him and whose fortunes are tied to Celene isn't that bad imo