160 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Ok, you can jump into the middle of the situation and say that you don't recognize the legitimacy of any of the proceedings, and that will get you nowhere.  The Inquisition's support is inextricably linked to noble support so saying that birthright is illegitimate is perhaps not the best route.

I'm thinking it, not saying it.

 

 

Threatening the people who snubbed his legitimate claim to the throne, people who are already opposed to him and whose fortunes are tied to Celene isn't that bad imo

Gaspard isn't even a Valmont; his claim to the throne was much shakier than he presents it, which is why the Council of Heralds got involved to begin with.

[Steelcan]

Gaspard isn't even a Valmont; his claim to the throne was much shakier than he presents it, which is why the Council of Heralds got involved to begin with.

His last name isn't as important as most people would think.

 

Throughout history there are numerous examples of dynastic lines being passed on through to a new family name.  The Byzantines in particular had little issue with making the son of daughters of the royal family Emperors.

[Xilizhra]

His last name isn't as important as most people would think.

 

Throughout history there are numerous examples of dynastic lines being passed on through to a new family name.  The Byzantines in particular had little issue with making the son of daughters of the royal family Emperors.

Gaspard himself says that the fact that he wasn't a Valmont is why the title was disputed.

[Qun00]

Do you really think Gaspard wouldn't slaughter any elves who defied him? He would gladly enjoy it too, asserting his dominence.

Celene killed the elves ONLY because Gaspard pressured bullied her into a position where she had to.

EDIT:

Celene, if she remained the ruler of Orlais, would at least TRY to make the world a better place for the elves.

Ohh, he would. He definitely would.

But that's the only criteria I can possibly find to choose one selfish bastard over another selfish bastard.

Honestly though, do you actually believe a politician's promise? And Orlesian at that.

[Lumix19]

Ohh, he would. He definitely would.

But that's the only criteria I can possibly find to choose one selfish bastard over another selfish bastard.

Honestly though, do you actually believe a politician's promise? And Orlesian at that.

Absolutely not.

Celene is definitely a high risk investment but at least she will still, possibly, have some ties to you. Put Gaspard in there and he'll either be strung like a puppet by some noble, thrown out or killed, he can't play the Game regardless of how hard he tries and that's an investment gone down the drain.

[Steelcan]

Gaspard himself says that the fact that he wasn't a Valmont is why the title was disputed.

it was disputed, but by all rights it still belonged to him.

Celene had the Valmont name, but she was still last in succession. The issue of last names was what gave her the opportunity to usurp the throne.

[Steelcan]

Absolutely not.
Celene is definitely a high risk investment but at least she will still, possibly, have some ties to you. Put Gaspard in there and he'll either be strung like a puppet by some noble, thrown out or killed, he can't play the Game regardless of how hard he tries and that's an investment gone down the drain.

. You haven't ever actually sided with Gaspard have you?

He's not beholden to the nobility like Celene is. He puts down rebels hard, he knows how to play, but importantly detests, the Game, and he is more than willing to work with Ferelden and the Inquisition.

[InfinitePaths]

Honestly though, do you actually believe a politician's promise? And Orlesian at that.

 

No, I believe her inner thoughts and beliefs learnt from chapters written from her prespective in TME.

[Former_Fiend]

Well, when given the choice between two horrible war mongers, I'd probably choose the one that hadn't committed an act of mass murder to the best of my knowledge.

 

No one involved at the Winter Palace is what can be described as a "decent person" unless we're lowering the bar so much that we actually dug a trench to get it lower. So, with that in mind, it's a question of either "who do you think is going to be the most effective ruler" if you care about the long term, and "who do you like better on a personal level" if you don't. I can easily see someone concluding Gaspard to be the answer to either of those questions.

 

Personally I make the three work together because honestly, they deserve each other. But that's just me.

[Former_Fiend]

No, I believe her inner thoughts and beliefs learnt from chapters written from her prespective in TME.

 

People can convince themselves of just about anything. That doesn't make them right or justified.

[Xilizhra]

Well, when given the choice between two horrible war mongers, I'd probably choose the one that hadn't committed an act of mass murder to the best of my knowledge.

 

No one involved at the Winter Palace is what can be described as a "decent person" unless we're lowering the bar so much that we actually dug a trench to get it lower. So, with that in mind, it's a question of either "who do you think is going to be the most effective ruler" if you care about the long term, and "who do you like better on a personal level" if you don't. I can easily see someone concluding Gaspard to be the answer to either of those questions.

 

Personally I make the three work together because honestly, they deserve each other. But that's just me.

Well, Celene committed mass murder, but Gaspard started a war. So really, Briala should get the throne, but I consider the Briala-ruling-through-Gaspard arrangement to be too unstable, so I just pair Celene and Briala.

[Lumix19]

. You haven't ever actually sided with Gaspard have you?

He's not beholden to the nobility like Celene is. He puts down rebels hard, he knows how to play, but importantly detests, the Game, and he is more than willing to work with Ferelden and the Inquisition.

I know his ending, claiming that the rebel noble houses are cowed by his power. The epilogue notes he brings order and stability but only for now. And when has a ruler not been beholden to the nobility?

[The Baconer]

He seemed desperate. Dude has the lion's share of the Chevaliers working for him, and the support of "the troops", but apparently that isn't enough. So he was going to pay Fereldan doglords to attack during the peace negotiations.

 

There's your Chevalier honor, right there.

[Jaison1986]

Well, when given the choice between two horrible war mongers, I'd probably choose the one that hadn't committed an act of mass murder to the best of my knowledge.

 

No one involved at the Winter Palace is what can be described as a "decent person" unless we're lowering the bar so much that we actually dug a trench to get it lower. So, with that in mind, it's a question of either "who do you think is going to be the most effective ruler" if you care about the long term, and "who do you like better on a personal level" if you don't. I can easily see someone concluding Gaspard to be the answer to either of those questions.

 

Personally I make the three work together because honestly, they deserve each other. But that's just me.

 

That's pretty much my reasoning. No one there deserves my support. So blackmail is the way to go. The three of them will have to swallow their own poison. Celene gets to live and to keep her precious throne, but at the same time she doesn't get away scot-free neither. She will have to endure Gaspard and Briala too.

[Dabrikishaw]

I prefer Gaspard because I can't find it in me to truly care about Briala and Celene. Plus I like the idea of him allying with Ferelden to double team Tevinter.

[Steelcan]

I know his ending, claiming that the rebel noble houses are cowed by his power. The epilogue notes he brings order and stability but only for now. And when has a ruler not been beholden to the nobility?

Shall I name monarchs?

[sjsharp2011]

Personally if it was an option- I'd kill both of them- and remove the power (AKA money and political strength- no killing) of any Orlesian nobles who did not demonstrate empathy towards all the people of Orlais and put Briala in charge- she is the only one who does not seem determined to a.) commit genocide which both Gaspard who hates elves- and Celene who will do anything to remain in power are, and b.) drag the nation into war with Fereldan/Antiva/Navarra/Rivain/The Free Marches/Tevinter/The Avaar/The Elves/The Qunari and well anyone else who exists in Thedas which Gaspard will do. Yes she has ulterior motives in that she wants vengeance for her parents deaths and the deaths at Halamshiral and power and equality for elves- but she does not want to commit genocide or murder knife the residents of every other nation in Thedas

Yeah I would as well  that's why in the majority of my playthrough's I've mostly gone with Briala alongside either Gaspard/Celene as joint rulers as I would hope it would lead to a moer peaceful solution all round. I didn't in my last run but certainly I think in 2 of my 4 playthrough's I've gone down that route and likely will in my next one. I've not read the books but I definitely find it an interesting situation.

[Lady Artifice]

It wasn't a genocide. It was a massacre, one that Celene perpetrated because Gaspard manipulated events into making sure she was there. He orchestrated while she held the torch.

 

They're both awful people and they deserve each other. 

 

Wut? I think Gaspard's a shithead too.

 

They've launched into that tirade with me too. For some reason, every time darkone sees someone say a word against Celene they assume that they must be a diehard Gaspard fan. 

[Xilizhra]

It wasn't a genocide. It was a massacre, one that Celene perpetrated because Gaspard manipulated events into making sure she was there. He orchestrated while she held the torch.

 

They're both awful people and they deserve each other. 

Maybe so, but doing so also screws over Briala, who's done the least wrong here, and that seems unfair.

[Former_Fiend]

Maybe so, but doing so also screws over Briala, who's done the least wrong here, and that seems unfair.

 

Eh. She's still murdered quite a few people and casually dismisses it as "part of The Game". And she plainly conspired to prolong the war and the suffering it caused to advance the cause of the elves - without any apparent success.

 

Fact that she's done the least wrong is more a matter of means and opportunity than an endorsement of her character.

[Xilizhra]

Eh. She's still murdered quite a few people and casually dismisses it as "part of The Game". And she plainly conspired to prolong the war and the suffering it caused to advance the cause of the elves - without any apparent success.

 

Fact that she's done the least wrong is more a matter of means and opportunity than an endorsement of her character.

But forcing the three of them doesn't change any of that, it just sets up more strife down the road. This situation is, well, a situation in which Vivienne's general perspective actually has merit: you're not going to get justice no matter what you do, all you can strive for is results. And I have Celene and Briala reconcile because I think that creating an example of humans and elves being in harmony--where Briala receives an actual, official noble title (though Inquisition seems to have dropped the interesting bit from previous games that "lord" and "lady" are the only official titles in Orlais because Drakon)--is better in the long term than setting up Briala controlling Gaspard, where their interests are opposed.

[Former_Fiend]

Oh, justice might still be achieved if the three of them end up killing each other.

[Lady Artifice]

Maybe so, but doing so also screws over Briala, who's done the least wrong here, and that seems unfair.

 

Well, I've never screwed over Briala. At most, I left her in no better position than when I found her.

 

None of the resolutions at the Winter Palace were my ideal, but Blackmail all three was plenty practical and it didn't really do any heavy damage to any of them. it just put them in a time out so we can figure out how stop the world from ending, something all of them should have prioritized in the first place if they'd had any sense. 

 

"Only fools fight over a house while it's burning around their ears."

[Xilizhra]

Oh, justice might still be achieved if the three of them end up killing each other.

That won't be justice, it'll just start another civil war.

 

 

Well, I've never screwed over Briala. At most, I left her in no better position than when I found her.

 

None of the resolutions at the Winter Palace were my ideal, but Blackmail all three was plenty practical and it didn't really do any heavy damage to any of them. it just put them in a time out so we can figure out how stop the world from ending, something all of them should have prioritized in the first place if they'd had any sense. 

 

"Only fools fight over a house while it's burning around their ears."

Personally, I believe that Briala's agenda deserves to be advanced.

[actionhero112]

Gaspard doesn't jeopardize the future of Orlais with sexual dalliances to my knowledge. Celene definitely does. 

 

He's not perfect, but I'd rather have a military minded ruler in place for the doubtless upcoming conflict in the next game (I say this because there is always conflict), than the conniving Celene. Both are unworthy of ruling, but I trust Gaspard much more with war than Celene. 

 

As for Briala, she's obviously biased towards the elven plight, which is good for an activist, but bad for a ruler. 

 

It's kind of irrelevant as I generally tend to unite the three in an uneasy stupid alliance to get the mask of the grand duchess though.