160 réponses à ce sujet

[Lady Artifice]

Personally, I believe that Briala's agenda deserves to be advanced.

 

Sure, but our character doesn't have the same assurance of success that we as players have. They're not playing a video game. For them, this is as much an issue of immediate survival as political agenda. My protagonist is approaching this with a sense of urgency, while these people are still throwing their troops at each other when they could be turning them to face the larger threat, threatening to swallow it all up.

 

Stupid priorities are stupid. That's what my protagonist knows. 

[Xilizhra]

Sure, but our character doesn't have the same assurance of success that we as players have. They're not playing a video game. For them, this is as much an issue of immediate survival as political agenda. My protagonist is approaching this with a sense of urgency, while these people are still throwing their troops at each other when they could be turning them to face the larger threat, threatening to swallow it all up.

 

Stupid priorities are stupid. That's what my protagonist knows. 

So how is it safer to continue to have the people in charge of these troops still be at odds?

[Amne YA]

did you  understood the concept of the game  ? it's  hide your true face !
 celen is more  evil than gaspard  she just wear a better mask  .  as  gaspard  say i don't have a chance in her games that why i bully . 

[Lady Artifice]

So how is it safer to continue to have the people in charge of these troops still be at odds?

 

Well, that's what the blackmail is for. 

[fhs33721]

did you  understood the concept of the game  ? it's  hide your true face !
 celen is more  evil than gaspard  she just wear a better mask  .  as  gaspard  say i don't have a chance in her games that why i bully . 

More evil? How so? I mean equal levels of evils can be argued but more?

 

Let's see:

Celene: Had her servants (minus childhood best friend/crush/whatever) murdered for political gain at age 16.

Lies to girlfriend about above detail for years.

Slaughtered rebelling elves.

Unironically wears that hairdo during the ball in Halamshiral.

Probably a lot of other shady things we do not directly hear about.

 

Gaspard:

Tries to kill Arl Teagon for the sole sake angering Fereldan.

Tries to kill his empress for refusing to marry him.

Makes up plan that requires Celene to slaughter rebelling elves.

Starts a civil war for nothing but his own political gain.

Plans to start even more wars once he's in charge.

Plans to forcefully take over Orlais during peace negotiantions.

Will even come back from the dead through the power of Tresspasser-bugs in order to usurp the orlaisian throne.

Probably a lot of other shady things we do not directly hear about.

 

I personally think Gaspard is (slightly) in the lead when it comes to evil-doing.

[Forsythia77]

Much like how sometimes I exile the Grey Wardens and sometimes I don't I pick Gaspard or Celene (or Briala to rule them all) because I can and the decision fits the personality of my inquisitor.

 

And here is a meta-game reason:  picking Celene gives Vivienne too many points for Divine and I can't have that...

[thesuperdarkone2]

More evil? How so? I mean equal levels of evils can be argued but more?

Let's see:
Celene: Had her servants (minus childhood best friend/crush/whatever) murdered for political gain at age 16.
Lies to girlfriend about above detail for years.
Slaughtered rebelling elves.
Unironically wears that hairdo during the ball in Halamshiral.
Probably a lot of other shady things we do not directly hear about.

Gaspard:
Tries to kill Arl Teagon for the sole sake angering Fereldan.
Tries to kill his empress for refusing to marry him.
Makes up plan that requires Celene to slaughter rebelling elves.
Starts a civil war for nothing but his own political gain.
Plans to start even more wars once he's in charge.
Plans to forcefully take over Orlais during peace negotiantions.
Will even come back from the dead through the power of Tresspasser-bugs in order to usurp the orlaisian throne.
Probably a lot of other shady things we do not directly hear about.

I personally think Gaspard is (slightly) in the lead when it comes to evil-doing.

Don't forget how Gaspard is an unrepentant racist. He calls Briala a rabbit, says elves have no place in politics, and outright complains about not being able to kill elves in the book.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Much like how sometimes I exile the Grey Wardens and sometimes I don't I pick Gaspard or Celene (or Briala to rule them all) because I can and the decision fits the personality of my inquisitor.

And here is a meta-game reason: picking Celene gives Vivienne too many points for Divine and I can't have that...

Not if you ally with the mages.

[Forsythia77]

Not if you ally with the mages.

 

Once I allied with the mages and still got Viv as Divine.  It was a national tragedy.

[Panda]

I find the choice be hard since I despise Celene. She's crybaby who doesn't own up to anything bad she has done. She doesn't have any kind of morals and values, she murdered all people who served her including her future lovers parents just so that people would feel sorry for her and she would get further in the game. She later romanced elf who served her and whose parents she murdered without revealing this at all. Ugh.

 

In other hand no matter how evil as person Celene is and how she lacks all kind of morals, her goals with the country are actually good and admirable. Something one easily supports.

 

Then Gaspard. Gaspard is bit villainous character who doesn't care about being ruthless to get what he wants. But he has morals and code that prevents him from acting without honor and for example betraying person as long as person is being honorable (chevalier code can be tricky). He owns up being ruthless and doesn't make excuses over his actions. He's not emotional mess either and is willing to do things himself unlike his cousin who relies on people: that she's ready to betray any moment as long as she just gets some kind of profit from it.

 

In viewpoint of being ruler, his not good choice unless you are into tradition and keeping Orlais strong. Her goals are hard to support if you are into being progressive and have some kind of loyalty to countries surrounding Orlais.

 

 

About TME:

 

In my opinion book starts with two heroines who are in love, Celene and Briala and old-fashionably evil villain Gaspard. There is no bad sides in Celene and no good sides of Gaspard to be seen. As the book progresses you will see Celene's darker sides and Gaspard's lighter sides, but the roles still remain: heroine and villain. Then you get big reveal of true Celene, who she truly is behind that Orlesian mask and it's not pretty what is revealed. Gaspard in other hand proves being less and less villain, even getting heroic qualities towards the end. The roles have almost reversed in the end of the book. And that's why I like Gaspard and not Celene. I think both are good characters though.

[InfinitePaths]

(chevalier code can be tricky)

(chevalier code can be tricky hypocritical, bigoted, racist and condescending)

[Panda]

(chevalier code can be tricky hypocritical, bigoted, racist and condescending)

 

Somewhat true.

At least it's something you can expect Gaspard to follow, with Celene you will never know when she will back-stab you.

[TK514]

I love how everyone blames the Civil War on Gaspard alone.  If Celene were really the great mistress of The Game and all around awesome Empress her BSN supporters would have us believe, Gaspard's attempt to incite Civil War would have been far less successful, if he could have found any support at all.  It was her failures that created the situation that made Civil War possible.

 

TME convinced me that that Celene is a fairly terrible player of The Game, a mediocre empress, and an all around terrible person, she just has some fantastic allies to make her look good.

[Xilizhra]

I love how everyone blames the Civil War on Gaspard alone.  If Celene were really the great mistress of The Game and all around awesome Empress her BSN supporters would have us believe, Gaspard's attempt to incite Civil War would have been far less successful, if he could have found any support at all.  It was her failures that created the situation that made Civil War possible.

 

TME convinced me that that Celene is a fairly terrible player of The Game, a mediocre empress, and an all around terrible person, she just has some fantastic allies to make her look good.

Well, we blame it on Gaspard because he's the one who started it.

[Steelcan]

Well, we blame it on Gaspard because he's the one who started it.

and Celene was the moron who put him in the army

[Xilizhra]

and Celene was the moron who put him in the army

I think the important part is that A. Gaspard started a war, and B. declares an intent to start more. Yes, you can talk him out of it, after you make the decision to support him. Really, I see no reason at all to let him get anywhere near the throne.

[Steelcan]

I think the important part is that A. Gaspard started a war, and B. declares an intent to start more. Yes, you can talk him out of it, after you make the decision to support him. Really, I see no reason at all to let him get anywhere near the throne.

and I see no reason to let Celene continue to pollute it

[Xilizhra]

and I see no reason to let Celene continue to pollute it

Forgive me, but I do not want an expansionist Orlais. I don't want Celene in charge either, but if that's what it takes, so be it.

[Former_Fiend]

Forgive me, but I do not want an expansionist Orlais. I don't want Celene in charge either, but if that's what it takes, so be it.

 

Well Celene still wants to expand. Just more in a Nevarran direction.

 

And more in a Ferelden direction as well; she just wanted to do it with marriage rather than an army.

[Xilizhra]

Well Celene still wants to expand. Just more in a Nevarran direction.

 

And more in a Ferelden direction as well; she just wanted to do it with marriage rather than an army.

I can't kill them both. But Gaspard's the one who wanted to use an army.

[Steelcan]

Forgive me, but I do not want an expansionist Orlais. I don't want Celene in charge either, but if that's what it takes, so be it.

Celene is no less expansionist, Nevarra and Ferelden were both in her sights

[Xilizhra]

Celene is no less expansionist, Nevarra and Ferelden were both in her sights

IIRC, that's not mentioned in the game, so could not be a factor in my roleplaying.

[ModernAcademic]

Why would anyone pick Gaspard over Celene?

 

To put an end to the effing Game and the disgusting corruption in Orlais that the empress helped to perpetuate.

[Asdrubael Vect]

 

I am really interested to hear your perspectives on this, especially from the people who support Gaspard, as I absolutely despise the man and everything he does.

I am a person who never like Orlais and want to execute Ceine, Florianne, Gaspar and Brialla together with son of Prosper-Syril de Montmort and all Chivaliers and bards....i never need them and never wanted their sh*t dances, make-ups, masks and "games", i never want to have any alliances with peolpes such as they are...i would rather massacre and burn entire winter palace

 

I would rather burn Orlais sh*t to its deep core and give it lands to elves, avvars, nevarra and ferelden(i am not care about Teagan i was cared about Connor once and kill his Orlais mother but he was not go study in Tevinter and not become a man who will reform ferelden, he was become a brainwashed stupid chantry loyalist)

 

I was care only about elven rebelions(and devs does not give us to make alliance with them) but not with Briala or someone like her in charge

 

They all deserve to die and Orlais with their Drakkon dynasty and Chivaliers deserve to be destroyed with their Orlais Chantry and seekers with templars, after masked empire and other books and what i see in 3 games i am all for this

 

so i kill Celine and Florianne and there will be no Celine reunion with Brialla and Brialla will be forced for all her pity life to do a good things for elves what she can and fight with old mindless Gaspar who would fail and he will not have any support except his peacock chivalier sh*t....elves, nevarra, ferelden and tevinter as enemies would make "his" empire crushed very soon...Celine will make this rotten empire to survive more time and noone need that

 

I was have alliance with mages and make a mage as divine, even if she is one of the such mages what i would like to kill with templars and i rather ban and crush chantry influence to make any new divine or put someone from mages rebellions but even her is enought for a start and i am sure that next divine and many priest will be another mages soon

 

 

i make everything what game can give us to make Orlais empire suffer and tear for pieces

[Jaison1986]

To put an end to the effing Game and the disgusting corruption in Orlais that the empress helped to perpetuate.

 

Sadly, that might never be so. Drakon himself, who was a lot more ruthless then Gaspard, couldn't put an end to the game, wich he hated himself. The game might as well only end when Orlais fall.