167 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

The "villain" to me is the Catalyst; the Reapers themselves are pretty much slaves... no matter whether you pick red, green or blue, the Catalyst is destroyed, so the options then become:

 

1: the Red (renegade) option : kill the Catalyst, its slaves, the Geth and EDI - save the organics. I say this is the Renegade option because it gets the job done, no matter the cost.

 

2: the Blue (paragon) option : kill the Catalyst, gain control over the slaves and save everyone else. I only say this is the Paragon option because you're getting the job done at the cost of your own life - although it's a slightly grey area since you've become the Reaper-god.

 

3: the Green (wtf) option : kill the Catalyst and "Reaperise" everything else! Every plant, every fungus, every bird, mammal, reptile and amphibian becomes partly synthetic... the Geth and EDI presumably get Reaper upgrades, like when Legion upgrades the Geth, mixed with some organic components somehow. Everybody lives but there's nobody cheering in the Extended Cut ending. Everything about it is a bit wtf...

 

Synthesis doesn't kill the Catalyst. The only ending choices that have dialogue indicating that the Catalyst would be destroyed or replaced are Destroy and Control. 

 

Destroy was intended to be the paragon ending and Control the renegade, though the Extended Cut introduced two different versions of Control. On a very low EMS playthrough Shepard will only have one choice at the end of the game. Destroy is the only choice available to a Shepard who chose to destroy the Collector base (a paragon decision) while the Control ending is the only option available to a Shepard who kept the Collector base (a renegade decision). Additionally the game uses Anderson (a paragon) as the avatar of Destroy and the Illusive Man (renegade) as the avatar for Control.

[Han Shot First]

I can't understand why anyone would pick the red one honestly. Except if it's with the idea in mind of creating an easy place for a sequel to take place. But as like a canon ending? Why? Its pissing in the wind. Eventually there will be more AIs, there will be something reaper like again be it in hundreds of years or thousands or millions or billions. It'll happen again. Control is kinda eh cuz I really don't think Shepard was enough of a saint to be incorruptible for all eternity. Synthesize was the only reasonable choice from my perspective.

 

For me at least is the only ending that makes sense from an in universe / in character perspective.

 

It is the only one that truly accomplishes the mission and wins the Reaper War. The other two allow the Reapers to continue to exist and the war concludes in at best a stalemate. Shepard is a military man or woman, who throughout the series has been portrayed as having an almost single-minded focus on completing the mission, so the other two choices I found were much harder to justify from a roleplaying perspective. I find them a bit out of character for both a military officer and from how Shepard was portrayed in those bits of dialogue we had no control over throughout the three games.

 

The other issue I have with Control and Synthesis is that from Shepard's perspective Control and Synthesis should seem like much larger gambles than Destroy. In both of those endings the A.I. who is controlling the Reapers and responsible for the annihilation of countless space faring civilizations, is literally asking Shepard to kill himself/herself with some vague promises that it will all work out in the end. In addition to being asked to commit suicide, Shepard is told that the Reapers will remain fully intact and operational. In Synthesis the A.I. that controls the Reapers will also remain. With that in mind, how can Shepard choosing Control or Synthesis work from a roleplaying perspective? Those options are only viable from the player's perspective, where the person controlling Shepard can feel safe in knowing that the options won't result in a Critical Mission Failure screen. Shepard shouldn't share that same sense of security.

 

From Shepard's perspective the only option that should truly guarantee peace and security is the one that destroys the Catalyst and the Reapers. It also doesn't come bundled with the crazy requirement that Shepard commit suicide first.

[KaiserShep]

It also doesn't come bundled with the crazy requirement that Shepard commit suicide first.

 

And that's a big part of why it basically all falls apart for me. From the PC-perspective, I might be curious about controlling the reapers if I was able to actually be alive and not have my own existence be tied inextricably to theirs by becoming a disembodied program, and the sole representative of this option was wasn't living in Indoctrinationville due to his own obsession with reaper technology, but the fact that the option comes with death basically makes it a no-no. So, what it really comes down to for me is whether or not I would die for the geth, or EDI, and the answer is instantly no. 

[Fredward]

For me at least is the only ending that makes sense from an in universe / in character perspective.

 

It is the only one that truly accomplishes the mission and wins the Reaper War. The other two allow the Reapers to continue to exist and the war concludes in at best a stalemate. Shepard is a military man or woman, who throughout the series has been portrayed as having an almost single-minded focus on completing the mission, so the other two choices I found were much harder to justify from a roleplaying perspective. I find them a bit out of character for both a military officer and from how Shepard was portrayed in those bits of dialogue we had no control over throughout the three games.

 

The other issue I have with Control and Synthesis is that from Shepard's perspective Control and Synthesis should seem like much larger gambles than Destroy. In both of those endings the A.I. who is controlling the Reapers and responsible for the annihilation of countless space faring civilizations, is literally asking Shepard to kill himself/herself with some vague promises that it will all work out in the end. In addition to being asked to commit suicide, Shepard is told that the Reapers will remain fully intact and operational. In Synthesis the A.I. that controls the Reapers will also remain. With that in mind, how can Shepard choosing Control or Synthesis work from a roleplaying perspective? Those options are only viable from the player's perspective, where the person controlling Shepard can feel safe in knowing that the options won't result in a Critical Mission Failure screen. Shepard shouldn't share that same sense of security.

 

From Shepard's perspective the only option that should truly guarantee peace and security is the one that destroys the Catalyst and the Reapers. It also doesn't come bundled with the crazy requirement that Shepard commit suicide first.

 

Yeah I can get that. I had to do quite a bit of mental gymnastics to have the idea make sense to military dweeb Shep. Doesn't help that Shepard is such a relatively set character.

[Han Shot First]

And that's a big part of why it basically all falls apart for me. From the PC-perspective, I might be curious about controlling the reapers if I was able to actually be alive and not have my own existence be tied inextricably to theirs by becoming a disembodied program, and the sole representative of this option was wasn't living in Indoctrinationville due to his own obsession with reaper technology, but the fact that the option comes with death basically makes it a no-no. So, what it really comes down to for me is whether or not I would die for the geth, or EDI, and the answer is instantly no. 

 

The endings were just poorly thought out by the lead writers. The decision to have the end game choices be presented by Space Hitler was a baffling one. From an in character perspective Shepard shouldn't trust a word it says. That is an issue with Destroy as well, but both the Control and Synthesis options ask a lot more of Shepard. Those two require a great deal more trust than Destroy does.

 

Mass Effect's endings were a bit like having Sauron show up at Mount Doom to tell Frodo there is a better option to destroying the Ring, and if he nose dives head first into the bubbling magma, his essence will spread throughout Middle Earth and the Orcs and Men and Elves can all live in peace, hold hands, and sing kumbaya.

[AtreiyaN7]

And just because you like/want Destroy doesn't mean everyone else does, so no thanks - I prefer Synthesis and my friend EDI being alive, along with the Geth.

[Han Shot First]

n/m 

[Gothfather]

For me at least is the only ending that makes sense from an in universe / in character perspective.

 

It is the only one that truly accomplishes the mission and wins the Reaper War. The other two allow the Reapers to continue to exist and the war concludes in at best a stalemate. Shepard is a military man or woman, who throughout the series has been portrayed as having an almost single-minded focus on completing the mission, so the other two choices I found were much harder to justify from a roleplaying perspective. I find them a bit out of character for both a military officer and from how Shepard was portrayed in those bits of dialogue we had no control over throughout the three games.

 

The other issue I have with Control and Synthesis is that from Shepard's perspective Control and Synthesis should seem like much larger gambles than Destroy. In both of those endings the A.I. who is controlling the Reapers and responsible for the annihilation of countless space faring civilizations, is literally asking Shepard to kill himself/herself with some vague promises that it will all work out in the end. In addition to being asked to commit suicide, Shepard is told that the Reapers will remain fully intact and operational. In Synthesis the A.I. that controls the Reapers will also remain. With that in mind, how can Shepard choosing Control or Synthesis work from a roleplaying perspective? Those options are only viable from the player's perspective, where the person controlling Shepard can feel safe in knowing that the options won't result in a Critical Mission Failure screen. Shepard shouldn't share that same sense of security.

 

From Shepard's perspective the only option that should truly guarantee peace and security is the one that destroys the Catalyst and the Reapers. It also doesn't come bundled with the crazy requirement that Shepard commit suicide first.

Catalyst is also asking you to commit suicide with destroy as well. You are specifically told that your cybernetic implants will fail killing you with the destroy option. So as far as Shepard knows each option is a death sentence. I think there are a couple of other strong reasons why destroy wins out over the other 3.

 

Destroy means the current threat aka the catalyst and the reapers are neutralized and Control is a risk because what if Shepard loses control of the reapers? If Shepard and take control from the Catalyst then logic tells us something can take control from Shepard and what if that something wants to start the cycles again? Synthesis solving the problem to me doesn't makes sense to me as it assumes that what just because we are now all living as organic/synthetic "machines" that all conflict disappears? That makes no sense, what does this bring peace? Imagine if Shepard doesn't solve the Geth/Quarian conflict. Do you honestly think the Quarians are suddenly going to think, "Well the geth took our homeworld but you know who cares because now they are Biological as well as synthetic just like us." That makes no sense. There is no reason to think bridging the organic/synthetic divide solves the issues between created life and it's creators. Created life is still going to resent being a slave or once being a slave and the creators are sill going to look at their creations as servants. So how does this "solve" the problem in terms of eliminating the conflict? It's just not worth the risk.

 

I am a little more of a hard liner than yourself. I think the series only makes sense if Shepard dies. So while you don't care about that I am a little more blood thirsty. I hate that with all the dlcs and so on that i can't get a non breath scene destroy without tweaking a save game because there are just too many assets now.

[Han Shot First]

Catalyst is also asking you to commit suicide with destroy as well. You are specifically told that your cybernetic implants will fail killing you with the destroy option. So as far as Shepard knows each option is a death sentence. I think there are a couple of other strong reasons why destroy wins out over the other 3.

 

The Catalyst actually never says that Shepard will die in Destroy. It can be inferred that Shepard's cybernetic bits will fail will based on some other things the Catalyst says, but whether or not that will kill Shepard is a bit murky. We don't actually know what bits of Shepard are cybernetic and which aren't. With Control the Catalyst explicitly states that Shepard will die, and in Synthesis he tells Shepard that the beam will atomize him/her.

 

Even if the Catalyst had said outright that Shepard would likely die as a consequence of choosing Destroy, Control and Synthesis would still be much larger leaps of faith. Shepard's death in Destroy would be an unintended consequence of having destroyed all Reaper technology, whereas with Control and Synthesis suicide is the prerequisite to even getting the ball rolling on either of those two choices. 

[KaiserShep]

I always took that partly synthetic line as a throwaway comment that was meant to get Shepard to care about the synthetic race. It certainly doesn't mean anything to imply that Shepard will automatically die, because the "partly synthetic" line also perfectly applies to:

 

Garrus after his surgery from his injuries on Omega,

 

The entire quarian race, as they have extensive augmentation in their bodies, and

 

Everyone in space since spaceships are apparently entirely synthetic.

 

So will all of the above die, or just Shepard? It just doesn't make any sense, but then, a selective beam that only affects hardware run by more sophisticated software doesn't make much sense as it is. The quarians' envirosuits should've shut down since the geth were installed in them in a peaceful outcome, but here we are.

[Helios969]

While I think Destroy is the mostly logical and likely choice Shepard could make I don't think he/she would have believed any of what the Catalyst said.  I never really bought into the whole IDT thing, but I think what allowed it to grow to such an extent was that many people just couldn't bring themselves to trust the Catalyst (that and all the stupid dream sequences).  Why would Shepard even believe a homicidal AI who had eradicated countless past civilizations?  Especially one that isn't even capable of composing a fallacy free argument.  This is the single biggest reason the endings failed to me.  We're just forced to take everything it says at face value...and then shoot a tube, grab some control rods, or jump into a beam of energy.  I think in reality, had we not know any better, most of us would have just shot the brat in the face.

[KaiserShep]

Only problem is that the brat in question is clearly a hologram. You'd have better luck just shooting Glyph. 

 

But, if the Catalyst really was taking Shepard for a ride, it would only be doing it for its own amusement, since it could have simply left him/her in that room with nowhere to go. 

[marcelo caldas]

In anycase, regardless which ending you pick, besides sintesis (imo it's impossible go forward from sintesis) there should be at least some retcon anyway:

 

1 - We have the crucible remains and it's bluprint, why not rebuild it and fire it again in case a new threat comes along (who doesn't want to press one button and beat any situation?)

2 - Starbrat kind of throws a portion of the lore away, Why harbinger stayed behind if the big boss was here all the time and with all galactic information at his finger tips, why starbrat couldn't reprogram the keepers, etc.

 

If I was Bioware I would try to create the greatest game ever (Andromeda) than return to MW and change the endings to a better staring point, maybe even relaunch ME3 or the whole trilogy in the new engine and in the process come up with an actually well writen outcome.

[Helios969]

Only problem is that the brat in question is clearly a hologram. You'd have better luck just shooting Glyph. 

 

But, if the Catalyst really was taking Shepard for a ride, it would only be doing it for its own amusement, since it could have simply left him/her in that room with nowhere to go. 

Well how about smuggling a few dozen 50 megaton nukes on board to annihilate the Citadel?  Does the Catalyst cease to exist?  Or does the little brat "assume direct control" of one of the Reapers?  I've kind of wondered about that hypothetical.

[marcelo caldas]

Well how about smuggling a few dozen 50 megaton nukes on board to annihilate the Citadel?  Does the Catalyst cease to exist?  Or does the little brat "assume direct control" of one of the Reapers?  I've kind of wondered about that hypothetical.

 

It's too easy, we better build the biggest machine to date and hope it will solve our problem. Hey, wait... 

[rashie]

Realistically, destroy would be the most workable ending from a sequel perspective since it cuts the most ties to the previous mess. AI constructs can be recreated by the organics, the reapers are gone and every single organic being in the galaxy hasn't been turned into a cyborg.

 

It would still cause quite a fuss among people who prefer synthesis and to a lesser degree control, whether upsetting those people instead of what their doing now is worth it, I'm not sure.

[themikefest]

Well how about smuggling a few dozen 50 megaton nukes on board to annihilate the Citadel?  Does the Catalyst cease to exist?  Or does the little brat "assume direct control" of one of the Reapers?  I've kind of wondered about that hypothetical.

I wouldn't do that. I would just fly the Citadel into the nearest sun. Since it controls the reapers, I believe it would just control one the reapers to avoid being destroyed. Of course there's no way of knowing until that happens.

 

One thing about picking destroy is the people on each homeworld know nothing about the reapers like Shepard and the player. They wake up one morning, go outside to cut the grass and all of sudden these giant flying things land on their planet and start destroying everything in sight. That person sees their friends, family members and neighbors killed. That person most likely joins the resistance to help kill the things for what they did. I really doubt they would pick control or synthesis. They want the things destroyed for what they did

[Queen Skadi]

Just one small correction. As of Trespasser

Spoiler

Leliana is a spirit that vanishes in the epilogue. So she is dead.

 

Wait what??? Is this depending on whether or not she dies in the Temple of Sacred Ashes or is this always the case?

[Fredward]

Wait what??? Is this depending on whether or not she dies in the Temple of Sacred Ashes or is this always the case?

 

Only if she got shanked.

[Queen Skadi]

Only if she got shanked.

 

So is it only revealed that she is a spirit in the epilogue or does she reveal it in game?

[Fredward]

So is it only revealed that she is a spirit in the epilogue or does she reveal it in game?

 

Only in the epilogue, there's absolutely no difference between lyrium ghost Leliana and real Leliana in game. I think it was just included to get the people who kept bringing up that they chopped her head off, bisected her and fed her to dragonlings to hush their mouths.

[themikefest]

Wait what??? Is this depending on whether or not she dies in the Temple of Sacred Ashes or is this always the case?

In the keep, choose killed  Leliana after posioning the urn

[Iakus]

It's too easy, we better build the biggest machine to date and hope it will solve our problem. Hey, wait...

Or just find its hard drive and reformat it...

[Ahglock]

I wouldn't do that. I would just fly the Citadel into the nearest sun. Since it controls the reapers, I believe it would just control one the reapers to avoid being destroyed. Of course there's no way of knowing until that happens.

One thing about picking destroy is the people on each homeworld know nothing about the reapers like Shepard and the player. They wake up one morning, go outside to cut the grass and all of sudden these giant flying things land on their planet and start destroying everything in sight. That person sees their friends, family members and neighbors killed. That person most likely joins the resistance to help kill the things for what they did. I really doubt they would pick control or synthesis. They want the things destroyed for what they did

No dude a magic green wave from space enveloped me and like I'm peaceful now. I like understand the reapers. Hey reaper dude I forgive you. Oh reaper dude you need to eat 10 million of us to have a child. That's cool reaper dude we are peaceful and all get along im sure 10 million volunteers can be found the magic green wave made us like aware.

[DarthSliver]

In anycase, regardless which ending you pick, besides sintesis (imo it's impossible go forward from sintesis) there should be at least some retcon anyway:

 

1 - We have the crucible remains and it's bluprint, why not rebuild it and fire it again in case a new threat comes along (who doesn't want to press one button and beat any situation?)

2 - Starbrat kind of throws a portion of the lore away, Why harbinger stayed behind if the big boss was here all the time and with all galactic information at his finger tips, why starbrat couldn't reprogram the keepers, etc.

 

If I was Bioware I would try to create the greatest game ever (Andromeda) than return to MW and change the endings to a better staring point, maybe even relaunch ME3 or the whole trilogy in the new engine and in the process come up with an actually well writen outcome.

 

I like this line of thinking, lets take a break from the Milky Way then come back and fix that crap that Bioware made. 

 

Honestly Andromeda is probably attempting to save the series as a whole because of this mess the Original team made and refused to fixed because of "artistic integrity"