322 réponses à ce sujet

[InfiniteAndBeyond]

Jim Jarmush said that "Nothing is original.", a comment that very well may be true, it's hard to write a story without certain tropes or cliches present in them. However, this does not excuse some of the most awfully overdone and tired cliches showing back up. BioWare is a company known for their writing, as such I hold them to a high standard and expect mediocre cliches and tropes not to appear in Andromeda (or if they must to be incorporated cleverly and uniquely).

 

Cliches that I personally find incredibly aggravating and overused.

The main character has amnesia 

A character dies-- oh wait, they're actually alive and it surprises nobody

A villain that wants to take over the world (or galaxy as it may be) and reshape it in their image

Lifeless fetch quests

 

And what are the cliches that you would hate to see in Andromeda?

 

[Remix-General Aetius]

grossly predictable and goody-two-shoes cheesy lines. American trash.

 

"glad I could help"

 

I would NEVER say that in real life. what I want to see is a morally ambiguous protagonist with at least two different outcomes based on the choices he/she has made. I mean, you can call Shepard renegade all you want, but he/she is always there at the forefront "fighting the good fight".

[InfiniteAndBeyond]

grossly predictable and goody-two-shoes cheesy lines. American trash.

 

"glad I could help"

 

I would NEVER say that in real life. what I want to see is a morally ambiguous protagonist with at least two different outcomes based on the choices he/she has made. I mean, you can call Shepard renegade all you want, but he/she is always there at the forefront "fighting the good fight".

I personally hope they junk the renegade or paragon system all together and embrace something along the lines of the Dragon Age series's system of morality. You can make callous decisions without being the devil and you can make "goody-two-shoes" choices without being a boy scout, or, and this concept is completely crazy. You can be morally gray and somewhere in the middle.

[Brightwolf]

grossly predictable and goody-two-shoes cheesy lines. American trash.

 

"glad I could help"

 

I would NEVER say that in real life. what I want to see is a morally ambiguous protagonist with at least two different outcomes based on the choices he/she has made. I mean, you can call Shepard renegade all you want, but he/she is always there at the forefront "fighting the good fight".

 

I've said this or a variant, usually "happy to help" many times.  I don't mind there being ambiguous choices for those that want them, but I prefer to roleplay as a good guy, I don't want to be shoehorned into some edgy grey character.

[Fredward]

grossly predictable and goody-two-shoes cheesy lines. American trash.

 

"glad I could help"

 

Just out of curiosity what does that have to do with America?

 

 

Not sure if this is exactly a trope but the way the morally good decisions were objectively better in ME3 and the dubious ones got you punished is a SERIOUS drag. Betray the krogan? They find out. Destroy the cure in ME2? Well that's gonna make your life more difficult. Kill the rachni queen? Well if you let THIS one go she'll shank you. Choose Morinth over Samara? Well she's gonna be a yakshi.

 

It was lame. It was like Jesus was following me around and wagging a disapproving finger at me for everything I did.

[Remix-General Aetius]

Just out of curiosity what does that have to do with America?

 

because America is the country of "cheese". way too theatrical and cliched for my liking.

[InfiniteAndBeyond]

because America is the country of "cheese". way too theatrical and cliched for my liking.

Not that I particularly want to get into this debate, but as opposed to which other countries? On my journey through gaming and film consuming many of the other countries that are mass producers of visual entertainment have their own vast selections of cliches and "cheesiness" in their media.

[Remix-General Aetius]

Not that I particularly want to get into this debate, but as opposed to which other countries? On my journey through gaming and film consuming many of the other countries that are mass producers of visual entertainment have their own vast selections of cliches and "cheesiness" in their media.

 

yeah but it's done more naturally. a shining example is the X Factor. watch a UK episode and then a US episode. the difference is glaringly obvious. the US version is over-dramatized and awfully theatrical compared to the UK one which is more "real".

[InfiniteAndBeyond]

yeah but it's done more naturally. a shining example is the X Factor. watch a UK episode and then a US episode. the difference is glaringly obvious. the US version is over-dramatized and awfully theatrical compared to the UK one which is more "real".

Ah, well I don't watch reality television no matter the country of origin. Although I would point out Japanese and Indian game shows are something of a running joke because of their own "cheesiness".

[Remix-General Aetius]

Ah, well I don't watch reality television no matter the country of origin. Although I would point out Japanese and Indian game shows are something of a running joke because of their own "cheesiness".

 

THEY ARE HILARIOUS!!!!

[Seraphim24]

Superhero, out to save the world.

[Duelist]

Honour before reason.

[Lady Artifice]

- Pair the spares/the beta couple. Mass Effect did a little of this, but most of it was gradual and developed over a course of time. I really liked EDI x Joker. I like some of the individual examples in DAI as well, like Sutherland x Shayd, but collectively I think it went overboard. Five out of nine of our companions could both meet and become romantically linked to someone else in our organization over the course of the game.

 

That is not to say that I find it difficult to believe, considering that most of them were romanceable characters. Just that I find it...kind of cutesy. 

[Chealec]

No more giant evil robots ... unless they're Japanese style giant robots ... and there's also Godzilla.

[BabyPuncher]

It was lame. It was like Jesus was following me around and wagging a disapproving finger at me for everything I did.

 

This sounds like a rather foolish sentiment.

 

As I've said many times, the basis of all drama is meaningful conflict and resolution. What do you think that resolution is, exactly?

 

It's the enunciation of a truth.

[spinachdiaper]

Military goons, ME:A should only have characters from all sorts of backgrounds that are looking to colonize and survive.

[Fredward]

This sounds like a rather foolish sentiment.

 

As I've said many times, the basis of all drama is meaningful conflict and resolution. What do you think that resolution is, exactly?

 

It's the enunciation of a truth.

 

What?

[maia0407]

grossly predictable and goody-two-shoes cheesy lines. American trash.

 

"glad I could help"

 

I would NEVER say that in real life. what I want to see is a morally ambiguous protagonist with at least two different outcomes based on the choices he/she has made. I mean, you can call Shepard renegade all you want, but he/she is always there at the forefront "fighting the good fight".

What do you say? "I helped. Now **** off and take your 'merican cheese with you!" haha

 

I don't want to see vixens, shy nerds or someone trying too hard to be my bro.

[BabyPuncher]

What?

 

You seem to have this idea that the story should not 'tell' you what's right or wrong. But that's literally what a resolution to the conflict is. It's the story 'telling' the audience a truth. And every great story does this.

 

In fact, every story does this whether it wants to or not. There's no such thing as a silent narrator.

[Fredward]

You seem to have this idea that the story should not 'tell' you what's right or wrong. But that's literally what a resolution to the conflict is. It's the story 'telling' the audience a truth. And every great story does this.

 

In fact, every story does this whether it wants to or not. There's no such thing as a silent narrator.

 

Right. But why does the 'truth' they're telling in this case be so one sided? Why do good resolutions generally align with morally acceptable decisions and bad resolutions go with morally questionable actions? If I managed to save the quarians and the geth why doesn't a misunderstandings/skirmishes between fringe elements cause a drop in the combat effectiveness of both? Why doesn't Morinth show up at the Ardat-Yakshi monastery instead of Samara and get captured there or something? Instead of simply being a throwaway enemy at the end. When does Wrex (or Wreave or whoever) turn into a spymaster?

 

Actions having consequences isn't objectionable, 'good' actions always leading to good/objectively better resolutions is objectionable.

[Remix-General Aetius]

What do you say? "I helped. Now **** off and take you're 'merican cheese with you!" haha

 

I don't want to see vixens, shy nerds or someone trying too hard to be my bro.

 

No, I say "don't thank me yet, wait till you get my bill". it ALWAYS makes people double-take. "are you serious??".

 

I also don't want to see FORCED romances and Bioware pets like stalker Liara & Ashley. I want to see more of Aria. NO JOKER and NO SETH GREEN.

 

Vixens are good. it was refreshing to see Miranda turn her nose up at Shepard instead of drooling all over him from the get go. and I like how you gradually earn her respect but not overly done.

[Undead Han]

Just out of curiosity what does that have to do with America?

 

 

 

Nothing.

 

"Thanks America" could totally be a meme, sort of like the Thanks Obama meme.

[BabyPuncher]

Right. But why does the 'truth' they're telling in this case be so one sided?

 

You're more perceptive than most.

 

The purpose of stories is to enunciate truths. That's why they exist.

 

Consider the example of the few good heroes against the horde of evil. Something we've seen countless, countless, countless times in all settings of fiction, yes? An eternal trope. The heroes are few in number. They're outnumbered and outgunned.

 

The point here is that there's no truth revealed or enunciated in having the evil succeed. Because their power is incredibly obvious. We can all see it. Everyone can see it. We immediately see and understand how large their numbers are. We immediately see and understand how much more capable the evil's weapons are. The immediate conclusion is that the heroes are screwed, the evil is going to win. There's no truth revealed in showing that, yup, that's exactly what happens. It would be completely pointless (and thus terrible writing.)

 

The point of this scenario that we see time and time and time again is to enunciate what isn't obvious. That hidden truth that lies beneath the superficial scenario. That is a meaningful enunciation. The enunciation of the truth that the heroes have a strength, a quality, that isn't obvious on the surface. This is a conclusion that goes against the shallow and immediate perspective. It looks deeper.

 

This is why having the story play out with the 'evil and shallowly beneficial' choice turning to be actually beneficial is poor writing. It's pointless. It betrays the whole purpose of stories.

[Ria Kon]

I don't care if there are some cliches or tropes (if the game isn't full of them). However, they sould be done clevery. ME Trilogy was full of them but it was served very well (mostly).

[maia0407]

No, I say "don't thank me yet, wait till you get my bill". it ALWAYS makes people double-take. "are you serious??".

 

I also don't want to see FORCED romances and Bioware pets like stalker Liara & Ashley. I want to see more of Aria. NO JOKER and NO SETH GREEN.

 

Vixens are good. it was refreshing to see Miranda turn her nose up at Shepard instead of drooling all over him from the get go. and I like how you gradually earn her respect but not overly done.

I'm an american expat in the middle east and the aussies are always telling my husband and I that americans are "too polite". It doesn't help that I grew up in the southeastern US where manners are a big deal. I hold doors, let people over in traffic even when they try to run me over, say please and thank you and generally drive the aussies up the wall. It's ingrained habit though. *shrugs* There's a lot I have to adapt to with other people's cultures here. If my over politeness is the worst thing people have to adapt to about my culture, that's awesome!