322 réponses à ce sujet

[Majestic Jazz]

My criticism comes to how ME2 handled things: cameos if you kept people alive, and absolutely nothing if you didn't. That... never made sense to me, because there was never a reason why we couldn't have an equivalent cameo in most cases. Whether or not the rewards were identical, there could have been something.

 

Take the Rachni cameo- you get the Rachni Ambassador who gives thanks and a momento and says the Queen will remember in the future. Good stuff- by why not have a Noveria Executive, or even a Krogan, on stand by if you did kill the Queen? Give you a token of appreciation/thanks for killing the Queen, preventing a bigger problem for many/ensuring so many Krogan didn't die in vain.

 

Another example is Shiala. Shiala is the Asari you can spare from the Feros colony in ME1. If she lives, she's your cameo in ME2. If she doesn't- then a nameless schmuck. But why? We already had a named survivor who fit the 'making up for my actions' motive, and corporate experience: Elizabeth (IIRC), the daughter we rescue from the ruins of Binary Helix. She never dies- and has an established motive for helping the colonists- and has as much grounds for being awed/grateful/even flirtatious with Shepard as Shiala. Who, you know, tried to kill us.

 

You can take it further. The fist Cameo. Why not someone who likes us, or hates us, for killing him? Imagine if he had a son. "Hello. I am Iniago Fist. You killed my Father, prepare to-" -RENEGADE INTERRUPT-

 

 

And so on. Even if the mechanicle rewards differ, there's no reason for an absence of cameo content to reflect carryover.

 

Well said and you explain my frustrations as well.

 

It seems as if Bioware made the Paragon playthrough the ideal and optimal way to play the Mass Effect trilogy as you get more content, especially regarding content. It seemed like if you played paragon, then you got the ideal version of the game while renegade players got an "alternate" version of the ME experience. 

[Beerfish]

Maybe it's because you're 15 and don't get it. The re-used environments in DA2 actually served to SHOWCASE the evolution of the story. By providing a consistent world, the change that you saw was 100% character development and narrative and also change in the world as affected by your character's actions. As in a movie where your character's might be in the same town - the same neighborhood - the entire time, but you witness an evolution within that town.

I thought it worked marvelously.

I disagree with this, they simply got lazy or time constrained in level design.  In the mass effect series it made perfect sense, prefab buildings on planets would look very much the same.  In an old established place like Kirkwall it didn't make sense.  And it is not even really the level make up they failed on it was by not using placeables, tinting or what ever else was at their disposal to make them slightly unique.

 

DA2 took a lot of undeserved criticism in many ways and as a whole is far better than it is given credit for but the reused environs was one well deserved criticism imo.

[FKA_Servo]

You know what would be a nice troupe inversion for ME:A?

 

A companion that has a strong, loving relationship with both his/her parents, and grew up with a happy childhood, and yet is still a complete bada** soldier when it comes to combat.

 

Unless I'm mistaken (and I might be) that sounds like Cullen. Not technicaly a companion, though, I guess.

 

For my part, I'd like Paragon and Renegade descriptors to stick around for nostalgia, but if the system itself is not entirely overhauled, I'd like it defanged. The meters restricted roleplaying and punished you for stepping out of character.

[Beerfish]

Well said and you explain my frustrations as well.

 

It seems as if Bioware made the Paragon playthrough the ideal and optimal way to play the Mass Effect trilogy as you get more content, especially regarding content. It seemed like if you played paragon, then you got the ideal version of the game while renegade players got an "alternate" version of the ME experience. 

There are other things that come in to who makes a cameo, character popularity being one of them.  Elizabeth Banham was bland and to be honest a freaking annoying brat.  Not many people liked her or cared about her.  Shiala was a more compelling character.  One handicap that game makers have to face and asjut to is simply how people react to characters in one game and what to do with them in the next.  They will sacrifice logic or common sense at times simply for character popularity.  (And characters can be popular and still be hated, a good character is one that elicits a strong reaction one way or the other.)

[Dean_the_Young]

There are other things that come in to who makes a cameo, character popularity being one of them.  Elizabeth Banham was bland and to be honest a freaking annoying brat.  Not many people liked her or cared about her.  Shiala was a more compelling character.  One handicap that game makers have to face and asjut to is simply how people react to characters in one game and what to do with them in the next.  They will sacrifice logic or common sense at times simply for character popularity.  (And characters can be popular and still be hated, a good character is one that elicits a strong reaction one way or the other.)

 

Sounds like a writing weakness to be overcome, not grounds to defend- especially when a character impression is subjective.

 

Personally, I didn't find Elzabeth bland or boring. She had almost as much characterization as Tali got in ME1, which admittedly isn't saying much but she had less than one mission to get it. We had a civilian character, in over her head, trying to make up for wrongs in the face of overwhelming danger without being a badass space marine or magic commando, with a character relationship that wasn't defined primarily by Shepard (her daughter-mother relationship). She even had something of a resolution to her arc- reunited with family, and caring for the colony survivors despite breaking ties with her former employer willingly, a development of her finding bravery and standing up to the superiors she'd feared.

 

Plus, she had the advantage of, you know, not being dead for sequel planning considerations.

 

By comparison, Shiala was... pretty much a submissive sex-appeal character in bondage leathers, with some of the most blatant space magic mumbo-jumbo in the series. She also had one main scene of conversation as an exposition dump, and then... did she actually stick around where you could talk to her afterwards? Can't remember. But she never really showed any defiance to, well, anyone that we saw other than her fighting us while in service of the Thorian, and certainly not her bosses.

 

And she could be dead. But hey- bewbs and submissive woman. We know which one fit ME2 better.

[KaiserShep]

I don't see what's so bad about Lizbeth Baynham. Being a scientist and an employee of Exogeni, she'd have more to say on the subject of their crappy contract as well as the biology of the thorian. I personally would have preferred her over Shiala, who had a somewhat weird way of talking.

 

​My speech pattern was…disrupted while under thorian control. 

[BabyPuncher]

By comparison, Shiala was... pretty much a submissive sex-appeal character in bondage leathers, with some of the most blatant space magic mumbo-jumbo in the series. She also had one main scene of conversation as an exposition dump, and then... did she actually stick around where you could talk to her afterwards? Can't remember. But she never really showed any defiance to, well, anyone that we saw other than her fighting us while in service of the Thorian, and certainly not her bosses.

 

And she could be dead. But hey- bewbs and submissive woman. We know which one fit ME2 better.

 

Are you under the impression that 'defiance' is somehow an inherent character virtue of some sort? I've seen exposed to far, far too many female characters writers try and play up as She Is A Feisty One Isn't She.

 

It very rarely impresses. In fact, I would really like to see more female characters with...realistic, for lack of a better word, attitudes toward danger and such.

[Glaso]

The re-used environments in DA2 actually served to SHOWCASE the evolution of the story. By providing a consistent world

 

Like when you went to a cave then later to ANOTHER totally different cave but that looked exactly like the first one?

[Silcron]

Like when you went to a cave then later to ANOTHER totally different cave but that looked exactly like the first one?

I don't understand. I don't think you understand. There is only The Cave. The Cave is home. The Cave is everywhere. And you will love The Cave.


...or, you know, your bones will serve well to adorn The Cave. We'll even put loot in them


Personally I won't mind any cliche as long as its use is well thought out and implemented. Something like "Everybody loves the asari!" Says this Citadel AI that looks like an asari, is representing the Council whose first race (and the one that discovered the Citadel) are the asari. Hmm, some players could think the programmers of the AI were biased and thus, what she's saying be propaganda instead of facts.

[Heimaxx]

No, I say "don't thank me yet, wait till you get my bill". it ALWAYS makes people double-take. "are you serious??".

 

I also don't want to see FORCED romances and Bioware pets like stalker Liara & Ashley. I want to see more of Aria. NO JOKER and NO SETH GREEN.

 

Vixens are good. it was refreshing to see Miranda turn her nose up at Shepard instead of drooling all over him from the get go. and I like how you gradually earn her respect but not overly done.

How was a romance forced when you didn't have to pick either one of them if you didn't want to romance them?

 

Also No joker?  

 

Why must you hurt me this way...

[Dean_the_Young]

Are you under the impression that 'defiance' is somehow an inherent character virtue of some sort? I've seen exposed to far, far too many female characters writers try and play up as She Is A Feisty One Isn't She.

 

I don't view 'defiance' as an inherent character virtue. I would view it as a contextual character virtue, however, for why Shiala should valued enough as a character to be returned. I'd certainly consider 'evidence as having a spine' better grounds than 'bondage leather bewbs' for being a cameo representative.

 

 

 

It very rarely impresses. In fact, I would really like to see more female characters with...realistic, for lack of a better word, attitudes toward danger and such.

 

 

Why just women?

[Puddi III]

Bring back Lizbeth in bondage leathers. Everyone wins.

 

That or she can wear Sayaka's outfit from PMMM. Then OT wins.

[Lady Artifice]

Are you under the impression that 'defiance' is somehow an inherent character virtue of some sort? I've seen exposed to far, far too many female characters writers try and play up as She Is A Feisty One Isn't She.

 

It very rarely impresses. In fact, I would really like to see more female characters with...realistic, for lack of a better word, attitudes toward danger and such.

 

Ugh. 

[dreamgazer]

Are you under the impression that 'defiance' is somehow an inherent character virtue of some sort? I've seen exposed to far, far too many female characters writers try and play up as She Is A Feisty One Isn't She.

It very rarely impresses. In fact, I would really like to see more female characters with...realistic, for lack of a better word, attitudes toward danger and such.

Elaborate on this "realistic" female attitude towards danger, BobPuncher9000, if you would.

[Helios969]

Are you under the impression that 'defiance' is somehow an inherent character virtue of some sort? I've seen exposed to far, far too many female characters writers try and play up as She Is A Feisty One Isn't She.

 

It very rarely impresses. In fact, I would really like to see more female characters with...realistic, for lack of a better word, attitudes toward danger and such.

Fixed it.

[Iakus]

Unless I'm mistaken (and I might be) that sounds like Cullen. Not technicaly a companion, though, I guess.

 

Actually, Ashley Williams was pretty tight with her entire family.  THough yeah, she had grandaddy issues.

 

Hmm, Josephine, but she's not a soldier.

 

Kaidan?  

 

James was raised by his grandmother and seems to have fond memories of her

 

   

[Iakus]

 

Another example is Shiala. Shiala is the Asari you can spare from the Feros colony in ME1. If she lives, she's your cameo in ME2. If she doesn't- then a nameless schmuck. But why? We already had a named survivor who fit the 'making up for my actions' motive, and corporate experience: Elizabeth (IIRC), the daughter we rescue from the ruins of Binary Helix. She never dies- and has an established motive for helping the colonists- and has as much grounds for being awed/grateful/even flirtatious with Shepard as Shiala. Who, you know, tried to kill us.

It's actually a little bit more complicated than that.  It's dependent on both Shiala living and the fate of Feros:

 

Shiala alive, Feros saved:  Shiala arrives in civilian outfit trying to help the colony

Shiala alive:  Feros destroyed:  She's there in commando armor doing mercenary work

Shiala dead, Feros saved:  nameless schmuck

Shiala dead: Feros destroyed:  nobody.

So yeah, there could have been more reactivity for destroying the colony.  But Shiala seems to be one fo the few cases where there's at least a little reactivity to your choices.

[laudable11]

The "respect my choices!, don't question me!, you can't have an opinion different than mine!" LGBT character

It's a trope now.

[CYRAX470]

I'd rather they don't go for "ancient evil returns" like in the first trilogy. That way with each subsequent game, another new threat can be thought up.

[laudable11]

People of color being assigned racial stereotypes.

Please stop.

Vivienne was a step in the right direction. Jacob was a NIGHTMARE.

Also: Asian folks ain't gonna have kung fu skills automatically. LOL

[Addictress]

Like when you went to a cave then later to ANOTHER totally different cave but that looked exactly like the first one?

I swear to god there weren't that many caves and honestly I enjoyed the cave design so much I didn't care.

And even if they were lazy, the accidental result was that it made the story more familiar and accessible and, ultimately, more effective in my opinion.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

The problems one runs into as a writer is when the protagonist is human and a member of the human armed forces, the default will be humans are special. That will be the frame of mind. If they wanted to allow for alternate species play, that would be a different story, but resources.Your character will have a human viewpoint.

 

An asari protagonist would have to subvert a number of the tropes they used. Playing as an asari commando lieutenant might not be appealing to a vast majority of players. Nor would playing as a turian soldier. Nor a member of the Salarian Special Tasks Group.

 

Plus we have to have something called writers imagine entire alien cultures. They have enough trouble writing a human-centric plot.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Like when you went to a cave then later to ANOTHER totally different cave but that looked exactly like the first one?

 

They did that in ME1, too, and no one really complained.

[Glaso]

They did that in ME1, too, and no one really complained.

 

You mean the identical buildings? Prefabs.

[Il Divo]

They did that in ME1, too, and no one really complained.

 

Not sure I'd go that far. The reused environments were not exactly held up as a high point for Mass Effect 1, even looking at subsequent Bioware efforts. It just happened to be that most of the reused environments were merc bases, rather than caves.