322 réponses à ce sujet

[Puddi III]

Eh, I think someone like Mari would make things more fun overall.

Is she from the Rebuilds? I still need to watch those.

But really, we all know Kaworu is best girl.

[KaiserShep]

Yeah she's in the Rebuilds. She's not introduced until 2.0. 

As for Kaworu…I…..wat. 

[Vapaa]

Humans are special.
 
The single worst trope in all of Science Fiction.

[7thGate]

More importantly, it cripples the crucial point that the protagonist simply isn't as good. Hence my insistence on no tricks or gimmicks. The enemy needs to succeed because they are superior.
 

Or to be more precise, the writers need to have the option of the enemy succeeding because they are superior.

 

This shows up as a common problem in tabletop RPGS.  Usually the best way to do this from a gameplay perspective is to make the enemy actually mechanically superior in gameplay, and then when they win, you go to cutscene to advance the plot with a downed/wounded main character instead of a game over screen, or you provide some method for retreating the player has to be smart enough to use.  This works by far the best when you allow the plot to branch based on the character's success or failure, usually with an unexpected success acting as a shortcut through the plot.  If you can't allow the main character to win at this point in the plot without destroying everything, they shouldn't be fighting.

 

As mentioned, this is the method used in DA:O when you're arrested for freeing the princess.  That scene was brilliant, as it:

1) Kept player agency by allowing your choices to play out

2) Strongly pushed towards a plot direction in a realistic way without directly railroading the player

3) Allowed for an exciting gameplay challenge for people that perhaps would prefer something more difficult than the rest of the game without creating a difficulty spike that would stop people that are uninterested in that from being able to continue the game.  That is the hardest fight in the game, and winning it was hugely enjoyable from a challenge perspective, but there are a number of players that would be....unhappy....if there were plot-critical fights you had to win to progress that were at that level of difficulty.

4) Handled both victory and loss conditions gracefully.

 

Another example I liked is the first boss fight in Dark Souls.  You're not supposed to be able to win the first time you fight it, but there isn't any gimmicky cutscene enforcement of that.  If you're good enough, you can do it.

 

Overall, the main point when writing a scenario designed for failure is that the writer needs to take into account that the antagonist may or may not be as good as the player, because it is controlled by a person of varying skill, and accommodate both options.  It is fine to skew it heavily against the player mechanically and spend most of the writing resources on that branch, but the player should be allowed to succeed if they can.

[BabyPuncher]

  but the player should be allowed to succeed if they can.

 

No. They should not. That is ridiculous. Contrary to all the drivel BioWare's PR stooges put out, this is not 'your story.' The player can not be allowed to avoid the narrative necessity of struggle because the player is good at pressing buttons on a plastic controller.

 

Do you have an understanding of the crucial importance of loss and suffering in stories?

[Vortex13]

Aside from the obvious Humans are special trope, there are several others that I would love to not see in ME:A.

 

Rubber-Forehead Humans - Aliens that are nearly identical to humanity in every way save for a few cosmetic differences; such as head tentacles. Mass Effect is definitely better at avoiding this trope than Star Trek, but species like Krogan, Asari, Turians, and Quarians being able to have a near complete understanding of human idioms and cultural quirks, as well as having very similar cultural structures tends to get a little ridiculous at times. Obviously, players empathize with things that are similar to themselves, but would it kill anyone to have a larger focus on species like the Hanar, or Rachni? This is a science fiction setting is it not?

 

Evil Murderous AI / Pinocchio Bots - Why is it that an AI has to be either a villain bent on the killing of all organics everywhere, or an organic wannabe striving to understand the concept of love? Can't we have a synthetic that doesn't want to "Kill all Humans" and will work with us, while at the same time not wanting to become like us? The Geth in ME 2 fit that happy medium perfectly; then ME 3 had to come along and retconed all of their unique development in favor of a people that "weren't truly alive" until they became just like everyone else.

[President of Boom]

There is just one trope I would hate to see return: PC is the messianic version of Norm from Cheers. Wherever PC goes, PC gets recognized. People scream his or her name and crap themselves from excitement of having been in the presence of The [insert PC's last name or rank].

[Ahglock]

No. They should not. That is ridiculous. Contrary to all the drivel BioWare's PR stooges put out, this is not 'your story.' The player can not be allowed to avoid the narrative necessity of struggle because the player is good at pressing buttons on a plastic controller.

Do you have an understanding of the crucial importance of loss and suffering in stories?

That's the difference in game and story. If you aren't willing to integrate success Into the narrative there don't have it enter gameplay.

[Ahglock]

There is just one trope I would hate to see return: PC is the messianic version of Norm from Cheers. Wherever PC goes, PC gets recognized. People scream his or her name and crap themselves from excitement of having been in the presence of The [insert PC's last name or rank].

That depends if they integrate all the one liners into it I want them to have this.

What's going down mr Peterson.

My butt on this barstool.

How's life treating you mr Peterson.

Like I just shot it's dog.

[KaiserShep]

No. They should not. That is ridiculous. Contrary to all the drivel BioWare's PR stooges put out, this is not 'your story.' The player can not be allowed to avoid the narrative necessity of struggle because the player is good at pressing buttons on a plastic controller.
 
Do you have an understanding of the crucial importance of loss and suffering in stories?

I think this kind of depends. In Origins, you can avoid being held in Fort Drakon, provided you can beat Ser Cauthrien and all her men, which can lead to or avoid another confrontation later.

[Iakus]

No. They should not. That is ridiculous. Contrary to all the drivel BioWare's PR stooges put out, this is not 'your story.' The player can not be allowed to avoid the narrative necessity of struggle because the player is good at pressing buttons on a plastic controller.

 

Do you have an understanding of the crucial importance of loss and suffering in stories?

If we're not allowed to succeed unless Bioware says so, then how is this a game?

[7thGate]

No. They should not. That is ridiculous. Contrary to all the drivel BioWare's PR stooges put out, this is not 'your story.' The player can not be allowed to avoid the narrative necessity of struggle because the player is good at pressing buttons on a plastic controller.

 

Do you have an understanding of the crucial importance of loss and suffering in stories?

 

If you struggle and win, that does not eliminate the struggle.  In an RPG, the best stories are the ones told collaboratively, where the game sets the rules, the environment and how the setting interacts with the player, and the player chooses how they respond.  When you change the rules because you don't like the outcome of the player's actions, that undermines the realism and sense of player agency that makes gaming more than just a movie.

 

As for loss, loss because you weren't good enough is much more compelling than loss because of deus ex machina.  Losing or saving Kal'Reegar is an example of this done very well, if you take the renegade option when you fight the Geth Collosus.

[kathic]

Humans are special.

 

The single worst trope in all of Science Fiction. 

Humans are special. Just in an evil way. One day we just show up, kick ass and take over the galaxy by force!

[BraveVesperia]

The trope where AI/robots always rebel against humanity and decide to wipe us out. Can't we have some AI that are just like "sure I like helping out the fleshy beings, I've got my own motivations that don't involve becoming a machine overlord."

 

EDI was pretty good in that regard (acted a bit more human-y than I want from an AI though).

[mopotter]

grossly predictable and goody-two-shoes cheesy lines. American trash.

 

"glad I could help"

 

I would NEVER say that in real life. what I want to see is a morally ambiguous protagonist with at least two different outcomes based on the choices he/she has made. I mean, you can call Shepard renegade all you want, but he/she is always there at the forefront "fighting the good fight".

I say it all the time.  I say it at work mostly and I have been known to say "it's what I do" occasionally too. Well, I've been saying it since I played too much ME.   As an option I don't mind a little cheese  if I can play it as someone who really thinks that way or better yet, someone who knows it's cheese and says it anyway.

[themikefest]

Yes humans are special. but look at the asari. They get that asari are special treatment crap

[KaiserShep]

If you struggle and win, that does not eliminate the struggle.  In an RPG, the best stories are the ones told collaboratively, where the game sets the rules, the environment and how the setting interacts with the player, and the player chooses how they respond.  When you change the rules because you don't like the outcome of the player's actions, that undermines the realism and sense of player agency that makes gaming more than just a movie.
 
As for loss, loss because you weren't good enough is much more compelling than loss because of deus ex machina.  Losing or saving Kal'Reegar is an example of this done very well, if you take the renegade option when you fight the Geth Collosus.

With the Cain, I told Reegar to help me out, then killed the colossus faster than his first rocket could fire. Good times.

[Shechinah]

With the Cain, I told Reegar to help me out, then killed the colossus faster than his first rocket could fire. Good times.

 

And they said creating an abomination of science using element zero and mass effect fields to create a portable particle accelerator with the power of miniature nuke was certifiably insane!
 

[maia0407]

The trope where AI/robots always rebel against humanity and decide to wipe us out. Can't we have some AI that are just like "sure I like helping out the fleshy beings, I've got my own motivations that don't involve becoming a machine overlord."
 
EDI was pretty good in that regard (acted a bit more human-y than I want from an AI though).

I'd like to see the ancient AI that has evolved to the point where it has seen and done so much that organics and the universe are of no interest anymore. It's off somewhere solving ever more difficult mathematical theorems and can't be bothered with us unless we bring it a unique problem or threaten its existence.

[Angry_Elcor]

Better to see something once than to hear about it a thousand times.

[Rannik]

I want to see them all.

[Addictress]

Sexy aliens

[Han Shot First]

Sexy aliens

 

Prepare to be disappointed.

 

Spoiler

At least if you consider the Asari sexy. One of the leaks that is increasingly looking to be legit, has mentioned them returning. 

 

No word on the Quarians or whether they will be unmasked, but I'd be surprised if they didn't return as well.

[Heathen Oxman]

I do not wish to see:

 

1. The whiny character with a tragic past.  Hated Fenris.  Hated Jack. 

 

2. Only hearing about epic battles and not being able to see or participate in them.

 

3. Magic.  This is sci-fi, not fantasy.  Let's keep the magical woo-woo to a minimum.  Thanks.

[Dean_the_Young]

Politicians are universally corrupt and / or incompetent.

 

And the lovely inverse that abounded in Mass Effect- that militaries (and soldiers) are more reasonable, pragmatic, morally sound, and effective men (and women) of action, with the solution to all the problems if said politicians get out of the way.

 

 

Don't forget the bit about handing out new political offices like party favors, and having the ability to cause revolutions overturning centuries, even millennia, of precedence, and just generally being the God-Arbiter of All the Things.

 

Ooh, ooh- how about the massive nepotism in general?

 

'I partied with a PC once. Now I'm an exceptional authority figure of note, even in matters that were never my skill set before.'

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some things I'd like Bioware to step away from-

 

-Consequence-free companion romances, in which everyone accepts and is happy for the party leader sleeping around within the team.

 

-Treating the PC as if they have a unique plot-macguffin when they don't. (See- Shepard's unique importance.)

 

-Reformist figures without power bases becoming effective and strong leaders of their groups despite being minorities in their intent.

 

-Reformists almost always being presented as an emulation of western liberalism

 

-Stupid-evil authoritarianism and pointless brutality that doesn't actually advance the 'security' aspect of any 'freedom or security' debate.

 

-The routine lack of blow-back from taking 'risky' but morally uncompromised decisions.