322 réponses à ce sujet

[Mathias]

What's wrong with Humans are "special"? 

 

If you're writing a Sci-Fi and you've got a bunch of alien races, each one of them has something unique that sets them apart from the others. In Mass Effect's case you've got Asari who are beautiful, have a degree of telepathy, and can live for over a thousand years. You've got Salarians who can only live for 30+ years, but they're natural born geniuses. Krogan are thick skinned, very strong, and can also live for a thousand years. So on and so forth.

 

But then you get to Humans, and.....well what do they bring to the table?

 

The sad truth is we humans are fragile, heavily flawed, and are lucky if we live to be 90 years old. If the humans in Mass Effect were anything like us, they'd be the most useless race in the Milky Way galaxy. The Council races would take one look at us, and say "Nope. Come back when you all grow up and stop killing each other." And it doesn't exactly make for good story telling does it? To start your story like that.

 

There's a reason why so many Sci-Fi writers depict Humans as the most determined and ambitious of all the races in their setting. Because there's a degree of truth to it, and it's honestly the most believable trait about us if we as humans ever did get our act together. And that kind of indomintible will and determination would make any race special. Plus it's typically hard for a reader to relate to Bibo the Volus being hero of the story, instead of a human being. So there's another reason humans are the "chosen ones". Granted I completely understand why someone people would want to roleplay as a different race.

[Han Shot First]

What's wrong with Humans are "special"? 

 

 

It is a form of narcissism on the part of the writer(s) in that it portrays our own species as being inherently superior. It also runs completely counter to human experience. We've often throughout history viewed ourselves as special, and repeatedly the universe has proven us wrong in those delusions. The geocentric model of the universe went down in flames for example, as did the mistaken belief that we were created fully formed by god or gods, entirely separate from the animal kingdom. There are some who believe Earth may be the only planet in the known universe to support life. While that one has yet to be debunked, it is likely that as humanity expands its knowledge of the universe we'll eventually once again find that we aren't quite as special as we like to think we are.

 

Another factor of the Humans Are Special trope is that intentionally or unintentionally, it promotes a sort of racist (or rather speciest) viewpoint in giving the humans some inherently superior physical or mental traits. The humans are the universe's ubermensch and the rest of the universe is populated by sapient, though inherently inferior creatures. What's the message there? That if we explore the stars, we'll discover our own inherent superiority? How self-absorbed and boring.

 

That isn't to say that you can't have a Sci Fi universe where humanity is the most politically or militarily powerful faction, just that if you're going to go that route (to be fair, ME hasn't yet) it shouldn't feel as if it is the result of some inherently superior racial trait of our species.

 

The Humans Are Special trope was also responsible from some really terrible information as far as science is concerned, in the original trilogy. In the second game for example we're told the Reapers are interested in humanity because of our great genetic diversity. That one was a real head-scratcher, in that humanity is not genetically diverse at all. In fact we are one of the least genetically diverse species on our own planet.

[Vortex13]

Another cliche I would love to not see in ME:A is the over focus on social dilemmas and other human issues to the detriment of the sci-fi foundation of the setting.

 

 

Any social issue; whether it's about how apparently everyone's parents are horrible people, or how a person's sexuality was an obstacle growing up; needs to be toned down by at least a factor of 20 (IMO). When I bought ME, I did it because I wanted to escape the mundane real world and be entertained by a science fiction adventure; if I wanted to learn about parental abuse, or the LGBT plight I would turn on the news or load up Twitter. Give me aliens as aliens, a setting nuanced like ME 1, don't water down the variety of the universe for the sake of "Daddy Issue # 674" or "Trending Social Issue # 785".

[Vortex13]

It is a form of narcissism on the part of the writer(s) in that it portrays our own species as being inherently superior. It also runs completely counter to human experience. We've often throughout history viewed ourselves as special, and repeatedly the universe has proven us wrong in those delusions. The geocentric model of the universe went down in flames for example, as did the mistaken belief that we were created fully formed by god or gods, entirely separate from the animal kingdom. There are some who believe Earth may be the only planet in the known universe to support life. While that one has yet to be debunked, it is likely that as humanity expands its knowledge of the universe we'll eventually once again find that we aren't quite as special as we like to think we are.

 

Another factor of the Humans Are Special trope is that intentionally or unintentionally, it promotes a sort of racist (or rather speciest) viewpoint in giving the humans some inherently superior physical or mental traits. The humans are the universe's ubermensch and the rest of the universe is populated by sapient, though inherently inferior creatures. What's the message there? That if we explore the stars, we'll discover our own inherent superiority? How self-absorbed and boring.

 

That isn't to say that you can't have a Sci Fi universe where humanity is the most politically or militarily powerful faction, just that if you're going to go that route (to be fair, ME hasn't yet) it shouldn't feel as if it is the result of some inherently superior racial trait of our species.

 

 

You put it succinctly.

 

The use of 'humans are special' as presented in Mass Effect essentially means that Cerberus is right; humanity is the only species worthy of inheriting the galaxy; as the setting itself lends credence to their human supremacist views.

 

Going only by the information presented in narrative, you can't logically argue against TIM about humanity not being the ubermensch race when we are the most genetically diverse, the fastest growing, most technologically adept species in the known universe, etc. 

[themikefest]

 

I would add the asari as special especially in ME3

[The Hierophant]

 Plus it's typically hard for a reader to relate to Bibo the Volus being hero of the story, instead of a human being.

 

[General TSAR]

 

And the lovely inverse that abounded in Mass Effect- that militaries (and soldiers) are more reasonable, pragmatic, morally sound, and effective men (and women) of action, with the solution to all the problems if said politicians get out of the way.

Word. The trope that politicians are all incompetent compared to the military is so overused in the Mass Effect universe no matter how true it (maybe) is in the real world.

[Mathias]

 
That isn't to say that you can't have a Sci Fi universe where humanity is the most politically or militarily powerful faction, just that if you're going to go that route (to be fair, ME hasn't yet) it shouldn't feel as if it is the result of some inherently superior racial trait of our species.

But that sometimes isn't the case. We're not special because of some superior racial trait. We're special because we try just a little harder. I know there are some stories that do what you've described. But I've seen stories that have handle "humans are special" pretty well, which is why I don't agree there's anything wrong with this trope at its core.

But the first step should always be to not flat out say humanity is "special" because that's just lazy. It should only be implied through our actions and accomplishments amongst our peers who arguably have more fascinating racial traits.

[Regan_Cousland]

There's a reason why so many Sci-Fi writers depict Humans as the most determined and ambitious of all the races in their setting. Because there's a degree of truth to it, and it's honestly the most believable trait about us if we as humans ever did get our act together. And that kind of indomintible will and determination would make any race special. Plus it's typically hard for a reader to relate to Bibo the Volus being hero of the story, instead of a human being. So there's another reason humans are the "chosen ones". Granted I completely understand why someone people would want to roleplay as a different race.

 

I imagine that any alien race which has built a sprawling galactic civilization or thrived in a war-torn nuclear wasteland is just as likely as humanity to posses the traits of "ambition" and "determination".

But you're right: humans have to have something going for them! It's not surprising "humans-as-the-most-determined-and-versatile-species" has become a trope. Physically and technologically, we're usually the underdogs, so we need some kind of innate equalizer lest our inevitable victory seem absolutely ridiculous. lol

[Vortex13]

I preferred the depiction of humans in the Sword of the Stars universe to Mass Effect personally. There was nothing 'special' about us, and in some cases we were woefully incompetent compared to the other species. None of the aliens in that setting were overpowered either, even the mighty Suul'ka; who are much better Reaper types than the Reapers (IMO); are relatively well balanced with the others.

[themikefest]

I preferred the depiction of humans in the Sword of the Stars universe to Mass Effect personally. There was nothing 'special' about us, and in some cases we were woefully incompetent compared to the other species. None of the aliens in that setting were overpowered either, even the mighty Suul'ka; who are much better Reaper types than the Reapers (IMO); are relatively well balanced with the others.

The same can be said about the asari, but they were made special in ME3

[Mathias]

I imagine that any alien race which has built a sprawling galactic civilization or thrived in a war-torn nuclear wasteland is just as likely as humanity to posses the traits of "ambition" and "determination".
But you're right: humans have to have something going for them! It's not surprising "humans-as-the-most-determined-and-versatile-species" has become a trope. Physically and technologically, we're usually the underdogs, so we need some kind of innate equalizer lest our inevitable victory seem absolutely ridiculous. lol

Well regarding your first part, my argument would be that other races have the luxury of just having more advantageous evolutionary traits than we do. That's why I find it believable that in some stories, humanity either saves the day or are the ones that contributed the most to winning. Because we're used to busting our asses off despite our disadvantages to accomplish our goals. So when things get really tough, the other races who may not be as used to defeat as we are, won't know how to handle being on the ropes as much as we do. And of course us being us, we're also incredibly stubborN which can in some situations work to our advantage.

[Mr_Q]

I'd prefer something new beyond the standard heroic archetype. It's not that I don't enjoy saving the world or in the case of the most recent Bioware game Dragon Age Inquisition saving Thedas, it's just that I've done it so many times before. It's overrepresented in the gaming industry today. It's the sort of plot I could anticipate even if I was tipsy.  

 

- A call to adventure 

- The rise of an ancient evil 

- A shocking twist 

- An ultimate sacrifice (that seems somewhat forced) 

- Against all odds, the hero succeeds defeating the evil 

 

I'd like a more mature story. I understand there isn't a consensus on what this word means but to me, it's where the writers aim to push the sci-fi genre forward. I prefer when protagonists have a personal amoral objective and can help or hinder the lives of others depending on your moral standards. Where there is no clear villain, instead one if forced to overcome difficult circumstances and resolve conflicts between individuals who don't want to rule or destroy the world but have understandable personal goals similar to your own that happen to conflict with each other. 

 

I thought Dragon Age 2 was a step in the right direction it's just a shame it was rushed and it didn't fulfil anywhere near its full potential. However, with DAI's GOTY success there is less of an incentive for Bioware to take a risk and try something new. 

[maia0407]

Well regarding your first part, my argument would be that other races have the luxury of just having more advantageous evolutionary traits than we do. That's why I find it believable that in some stories, humanity either saves the day or are the ones that contributed the most to winning. Because we're used to busting our asses off despite our disadvantages to accomplish our goals. So when things get really tough, the other races who may not be as used to defeat as we are, won't know how to handle being on the ropes as much as we do. And of course us being us, we're also incredibly stubborN which can in some situations work to our advantage.

There's also the point that all the 'special' qualities given to the other species are really just human traits exaggerated to make them seem alien. In this context, humans inevitably end up a jack of all trades as we possess all of these traits in a non exaggerated form. In this sense, humans will always be special.

 

From a storytelling perspective, humans are the reference point that writers use as we know nothing else so we have to pull from our own traits and make them unique for aliens in some way. This device works as a way to explore humanity and also makes the aliens familiar. But, again, we're always going to have an advantage over the aliens as we possess all the traits and have the ability to exploit them when needed.

[KaiserShep]

The same can be said about the asari, but they were made special in ME3

I dunno. The asari were taken down a few notches in ME3. They did a lot in the background, but they were no better than the turians, and From Ashes only served to bring them down to everyone else's level.

[SardaukarElite]

But that sometimes isn't the case. We're not special because of some superior racial trait.

 

I don't know, our thumbs are pretty amazing.

[Zana]

Ditch the attempts at moral absolutes.

 

No human is pure good or pure evil. Trying to distill every choice to moral absolutes will result in either really unrelatable options (reprogramming geth being paragon even though practically everyone tells you they'd rather die than be changed by external party) or forcing you to choose between 'stupid good' and 'chaotic stupid'. If all choices are distilled to only moral absolutes, the protagonist will come off as either a flat character, or as having a mental disorder (when randomly picking choices).

 

Since the above likely won't happen, at least ditch the 'paragon is always right'.

 

Idealistic choice should not always result at the best outcome. Bhelen is possibly one of the best examples - a ruthless tyrant who will shed rivers of blood but can stop his race from going extinct. Unfortunately it's an exception in the rule. I can come up with dozens of examples of being unreasonably idealistic leads to better outcomes. I am not saying being idealistic should always be bad, but it has to be tempered by reason. I don't see how leaving a demon-posessed child in the keep where he mind controlled everyone recently to make a trip half way across the country to get some mages wouldn't backfire at least somewhat.

 

Finally if the above is not possible either, at least throw pragmatic characters a bone. Don't make it all or nothing. Being pragmatic should not result in a bloody wasteland. Being pragmatic should not imply 'only caring for immediate outcome of the immediate task'. I want more characters like Kreia (yes, I know not BW) and Mythal. They can play a long term game and be the puppetmasters. They can make hard choices when necessary to achieve what they believe in.

 

On the concluding note, ditch Bioware Hats ™. Yes, I know it usually isn't a huge deal in ME games, but cripes, entirety of DA series hats still give me nightmares.

[Regan_Cousland]

I'd like a more mature story. I understand there isn't a consensus on what this word means but to me, it's where the writers aim to push the sci-fi genre forward. I prefer when protagonists have a personal amoral objective and can help or hinder the lives of others depending on your moral standards. Where there is no clear villain, instead one if forced to overcome difficult circumstances and resolve conflicts between individuals who don't want to rule or destroy the world but have understandable personal goals similar to your own that happen to conflict with each other. 

 

I agree 100%, Mr Q. I'd love Andromeda to be like that. 

I'm a bit tired of saving the entire world/galaxy from a Great Evil in an heroic, witty or badass fashion.

As you say, Dragon Age 2 was a laudable attempt to do something different, but the quality of the game, unfortunately, undermined the idea behind it.

The thing I loved about DA2 was that your goal wasn't to save the world; it was simply to build a life for yourself. It was only your skill in battle and your growing reputation that brought you to the attention of powerful people and persuaded them to solicit your aid in solving their problems. If you became emotionally invested in their causes, or if you helped them purely for the payday, or to serve your own agenda, was largely up to you.

[Beerfish]

Like songs written on the guitar there is nothing left but cliches as far as story telling goes.  Thus you need to do a good job of the cliches you put into the games.  BioWare has succeeded greatly and failed in this regard.  ME1 had a cliche hero ending but they totally delivered on it.  They have had some cliche characters, odd ball scientist such as Mordin but they totally delivered on the character.

 

I could argue that the time they tried to go for the non cliche in a big way (ME3 ending) they totally failed.

 

Give me cliches, but do a good job of presenting them.

[Vortex13]

The same can be said about the asari, but they were made special in ME3

 

 

The Asari have always been ME's version of Space Elves, so them being a close second to special snowflake humanity is expected; though I will agree with others and say that the Asari were taken down a couple pegs in ME 3, they were still a favored species in the eyes of the narrative, but they weren't as lauded upon like humans were. 

 

If anything, the Asari government's hoarding of Prothean tech makes their species a bit more 'balanced' in relation to the others. Sure, sitting on the beacon during the Reaper invasion was all kinds of stupid, but Asari dominance due to deception and a carefully controlled monopoly was more believable and less self-indulgent than humans being awesome because "reasons".

[themikefest]

The Asari have always been ME's version of Space Elves, so them being a close second to special snowflake humanity is expected; though I will agree with others and say that the Asari were taken down a couple pegs in ME 3, they were still a favored species in the eyes of the narrative, but they weren't as lauded upon like humans were. 

 

If anything, the Asari government's hoarding of Prothean tech makes their species a bit more 'balanced' in relation to the others. Sure, sitting on the beacon during the Reaper invasion was all kinds of stupid, but Asari dominance due to deception and a carefully controlled monopoly was more believable and less self-indulgent than humans being awesome because "reasons".

What about them not showing up to the summit? I guess that's ok since they're special. Why can't Shepard tell the councilor that if the beacon was revealed earlier lives may of been saved? That's ok since they're special. How about that  asari squadmate that says the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance can spring for air support? I wanted a renegade interrupt to use some harsh language for making a really stupid comment. But that's ok. Don't want to hurt the feelings of the special. Why can I yell at Joker and not the asari for yelling at Javik for something he had nothing to do with? That's right. Don't want to hurt the feelings of the special. Yeah the asorry were made special in ME3

[Vortex13]

What about them not showing up to the summit? I guess that's ok since they're special. Why can't Shepard tell the councilor that if the beacon was revealed earlier lives may of been saved? That's ok since they're special. How about that  asari squadmate that says the next time we go to war maybe the Alliance can spring for air support? I wanted a renegade interrupt to use some harsh language for making a really stupid comment. But that's ok. Don't want to hurt the feelings of the special. Why can I yell at Joker and not the asari for yelling at Javik for something he had nothing to do with? That's right. Don't want to hurt the feelings of the special. Yeah the asorry were made special in ME3

 

 

That's more of narrative railroading than the Asari being made into special snowflakes (IMO). The game didn't let you call the Councilor out on her government's screw up, but it didn't change how the Asari very nearly cost the galaxy the war.

 

I didn't get to debate with Wrex about why the Genophage was needed, or at least provide reasons why I didn't feel comfortable with the cure beyond the one dimensional "I don't like Krogan." The narrative didn't let me chew out Wrex/Wreve for holding the entire galaxy hostage (arguably causing more deaths than the Asari government's actions) just so we could play doctor. I wasn't allowed to tell Wrex to space himself and devote the allied forces resources into rescuing the Rachni, a species that not only wanted to help; no strings attached; but was also one that admitted to it's past misdeeds harm that they caused.  

 

 

Regardless of what Shepard says, or can't say, the Asari aren't somehow made more important than what they already were already depicted as. Contrast this with human genetic diversity, our rapid rise to embassy status and then Council membership, our economic success rivaling that of races like the Volus, our penchant for military tactics surpassing Turian prowess, our scientific advances and information gathering techniques eclipsing the Salarians etc.

 

Asari are the writer's pet of the series, but they aren't (nearly) the special snowflake that humanity is.

[KaiserShep]

Well, Hackett did say they'll regret it, and sho nuff, they did.

As for Wrex, in his position, I would've held the galaxy hostage as well. This is the one and only opportunity they'd ever get to cure the genophage. I wouldn't rely on gratitude and good faith to get what I want, so I'd force them all to make a choice as to which is more important to them: extinction now or possible conflict later. A debate would've been pointless, but interesting.

[justafan]

Cutscene Incompetence seem to be a major offender in recent games.

 

Also, Why don't you just shoot him, as a subset of Bond Villain Stupidity.  I don't mind if we face a hammy villain or two who invoke these tropes, but when a major villain we are expected to take seriously falls victim, it kinda ruins their credibility.

[Addictress]

I don't know why people hate on DA2. It's honestly my favorite in the series